The IA 6+ arc is possible WITHOUT FOCUSED EFFORST STACK?

Parasaurolophus · September 1

Can you share your experience?

Treeshka · September 1

It is somewhat possible. But it will take a lot of time to go through mobs. But if Mystic Fable spawns all the time you may have hard time killing the meteors after those Arcs.

tsaescishoeshiner · September 1

I've run with some people not using status effect builds, or gotten that far in without a Focused Efforts vision and done fine on my regular build (obviously, much slower, which would cause issues much higher than Arc 6 with a jillion adds).

As long as you can be tanky enough, I've duo'ed with players using non-status effect builds. There's also an ultimate cost reduction strategy (nice for Bone Colossus), or the enchantment-boosting builds where you can get like 2-3k weapon/spell damage and reduction from your enchantments.

Other than these 3, I'm not sure which builds scale as aggressively. Some visions just scale so well, even though you can't guarantee getting them. : p

It would help a lot if they removed or combined the +gold and +experience visions so that the available visions would be a bit more reliable : p

Ishtarknows · September 1

I disagree.

Not long after IA came out my friend and I went in as 2 DDs in trial setup gear. As we progressed we added heals or shields, buff/debuff skills and at one point my friend switched to tank gear (Pearlescent Ward) and we made it to arc 8 before losing all our threads. This was without knowing about Focussed Efforts or thinking about switching out glyphs. We just picked visions that looked useful. It was our first time going past Arc 5 and we were underprepared, but it was challenging and fun, and frustrating - looking at you Gothmau.

Optimisation is required to get further than 8? Definitely, but I don't think FE is required. It makes it easier and faster though that's for sure, but I never seem to get more than one of them.

I too would like to see the removal of the xp and gold visions, at least from later rounds - I've used the xp one before when I took a character I was levelling in as it's decent xp and I was hoping to get a weekly reward - I didn't, score wasn't included on the leaderboard even though it was high enough, hmph

Jsmalls · September 3

I think the core message of this post is what really should be discussed.

Focus Efforts is extremely strong. Followed by the enchant buff. Followed potentially by holding your ultimate which is 13% damage per stack(this one is debatable depending on class).

Rest of the visions compared to these 3 are.... Average at best.

Buddy and I had a run until mid Arc 7 yesterday where we each got only 1 Focused Effort (and no complete Avatar collection -_-). Things slowed down too much to the point where the arena would fill with AoEs and we'd get overwhelmed.

I've felt the power difference after each stack of Focused effort and it's... Too critical to reasonably continue a run without 2+ stacks of the Focused Efforts by Arc 7 (my personal opinion).

I would say other visions need to at least have the gapped closed on them. 3% direct damage, 3% area of effect damage, 3% shock damage, etc etc should all be at least brought up to 10% per stack. Potentially 15%. Adding RNG into your run (something that takes HOURS) makes this content feel much less "fun".

Otherwise it's the most enjoyable PvE content I've played in awhile. And this is coming from someone who PvPs for 90% of their playtime.

Edit:

Has anyone had a meteor spawn in a black bubble from the brewmaster... Ridiculous.

Stafford197 · September 3

Possible yes but there’s no real point in avoiding it. Damage in IA is heavily dependent on Focused Efforts, so avoiding it would mean you’re slowing yourself down a lot. IA is already an activity that takes far too long if you want to reach high Arcs.

Major_Mangle · September 3

Would be interesting if there was an option to "pay/trade" your threads to reroll the visions you get after killing a boss. Or at least some kind of reroll option

Jsmalls · September 3

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Would be interesting if there was an option to "pay/trade" your threads to reroll the visions you get after killing a boss. Or at least some kind of reroll option

This is actually perfect, but threads are way too important, rerolling for Archival Fortunes would be the answer. For those that are going for leaderboard scores you likely have excess and you're "risking" your fortunes to go for longer runs and which it would benefit you.

Thysbe · September 3

Running a lot of Solo (+ companion) IA with a Focused Effort centered Warden build for farming stuff like style pages, achievements and recipies - so no leaderboard scoring ambitions.

It used to be a grind before but was kind of relaxing and with a bit of luck up to 4 was doable and didnt take too long. You could hope for a treasure scamp or secret within reasonable time hunting down those furnishing plans and style pages. Gambling with a single Vision was as depressing as now.

With u43 Arctic Blast was nerfed, Super annoying Fabled like Brewmaster and Lightbringer were Introduces (Meteor ist still manageable at the low stages I am playing at), I personally dont think the 2 new Marauders are entertaining in any way and the chance of Focused Effort is significantly reduced due to the introduction of new Visions.

I will most likely drop my regular visits since even stage 2 already is such a drag - just took me 5 Minutes to get down the Stage 2 Boss.

robpr · September 3

It's manageable, but tiresome and annoying how long trash packs will go. Avatar visions help, but most of the time you have to be carried with verses, Orbiting Echoes, Fire Orb, Exsanguinate, Storm whatever its called, Cold Blast.
Brewmaster bubble is usually the most dangerous unless Mystic drop the meteor somewhere you did not notice (meteor dies in like 2 hits, but if it explodes it deals unavoidable 100% hp oblivion dmg)

Cloudtrader · September 3

I was once on an incredibly blessed run with my IA buddy, it was our second run for the day and we were just going to do the daily to save it for a turn in the next day, and I got 3 stacks of Focused Efforts on my solo-questing spec DD Warden (who mainly trial heals) in the first Arc. So, of course, we had to keep going. By Arc 4 I had 4 stacks. It was so beautiful. It will probably never happen again, but it was so, so good.

That is to say, I cannot imagine runs Arc 6+ without FE stacks, it just sounds like pain to me.

Junipus · September 3

Cloudtrader wrote: »

I was once on an incredibly blessed run with my IA buddy, it was our second run for the day and we were just going to do the daily to save it for a turn in the next day, and I got 3 stacks of Focused Efforts on my solo-questing spec DD Warden (who mainly trial heals) in the first Arc. So, of course, we had to keep going. By Arc 4 I had 4 stacks. It was so beautiful. It will probably never happen again, but it was so, so good.

That is to say, I cannot imagine runs Arc 6+ without FE stacks, it just sounds like pain to me.

I too was once blessed with 4 FE stacks by Arc 4, but didn't complete the arc as I was on a sub-optimal build for that late in the run. I have noticed that FE and other visions tend to come in groups.

Another very useful, maybe even essential, vision without FE stacks is the Heavy Attack Bleed WW transformation one. Get that, along with a tanky build and ice staff and you can wear the mobs down even with the meteors. It might take 10 minutes per group of adds, but it would be doable to reach 6+

Necrotech_Master · September 3

it is possible to continue arc 6+ without FE, but like others said mobs will be a huge grind as they will have around 1.3 mil hp for each trash mob, thats like nearly fighting a full mob of base game overland WBs and is going to take a bit of time

other verses will help deal a lot of dmg, but visions are going to be around more than 1 stage

Parasaurolophus · September 3

I really want to bring this to the community's attention, it seems like ZoS has released dead content again. Hoping that ZoS will rebalance visions is pointless. They will most likely just make some new cosmetic things for farming when they see that the stats have gotten worse. They always do that.

Jsmalls · September 3

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I really want to bring this to the community's attention, it seems like ZoS has released dead content again. Hoping that ZoS will rebalance visions is pointless. They will most likely just make some new cosmetic things for farming when they see that the stats have gotten worse. They always do that.

I think this is far from dead content. And these requests are definitely QoL requests that would make the experience more fun (well balancing SHOULD be done at the least). Alternatively you could run the first 3 cycles and if you haven't received favorable Visions by then you could reset the instance (that way it's only like a 40 minute commitment).

Necrotech_Master · September 3

Jsmalls wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I really want to bring this to the community's attention, it seems like ZoS has released dead content again. Hoping that ZoS will rebalance visions is pointless. They will most likely just make some new cosmetic things for farming when they see that the stats have gotten worse. They always do that.

I think this is far from dead content. And these requests are definitely QoL requests that would make the experience more fun. Alternatively you could run the first 3 cycles and if you haven't received favorable Visions by then you could reset the instance (that way it's only like a 40 minute commitment).

this

i usually only run through arc 3-4 for farming purposes

if i get good visions, like at least 2-3 FE before arc 4 clear i may choose to continue if i dont have anything else going on

Theignson · September 3

We originally went as far as arc 7. The focused effect was the major thing that was necessary. However, you can also use the "eternal DK" build, which definitely works, but without focused effects, it is very hard to kill the trash.

The new "fabled" trash is really annoying and moreso as you move up Arcs. I have seen them healing the marauder and making him take no damage. That is just ridiculous. As if the Minotaur needs that.

We cut down to doing 3 arcs but even in arc three the marauders are annoying , the trash gets more and more hp and annoying skills. Arc 3 was taking as long as Arc 1 +2.

So now if we need to, just do 2 runs of two arcs each to get the new armor. Arc one is trivially easy, Arc 2 is no challenge, so in a sense it is a waste of game time just for getting armor, but that is nothing new

redspecter23 · September 3

I think that one of the issues is that Focused Efforts is so much more drastically powerful than other effects that it can be the determining factor in how fast and efficient a run can go. This power level disparity can lead to the feeling that you're at the mercy of RNG and multiple stacks of Focused Efforts or your run is wasted. Get zero FE and you feel like you should just reset. Get 3+? Well that's the run you actually care about. If we had more buffs with a similar power level, this element of RNG would be lessened.

There is more to it than this and yes, you can have a successful run with fewer Focused Efforts, but it's often just so much easier with them.

Necrotech_Master · September 3

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think that one of the issues is that Focused Efforts is so much more drastically powerful than other effects that it can be the determining factor in how fast and efficient a run can go. This power level disparity can lead to the feeling that you're at the mercy of RNG and multiple stacks of Focused Efforts or your run is wasted. Get zero FE and you feel like you should just reset. Get 3+? Well that's the run you actually care about. If we had more buffs with a similar power level, this element of RNG would be lessened.

There is more to it than this and yes, you can have a successful run with fewer Focused Efforts, but it's often just so much easier with them.

this is exactly the problem i have with the balance between FE and all of the other effects

i mean the one for aoe dmg is a measly +3% dmg per stack, this should be like 30% to even be comparable to FE

and since visions can only stack to 5x, that means the aoe dmg one at best gets to a max of 15%, thats basically just an extra major berserk + minor berserk which is hardly noticeable at all

Dagoth_Rac · September 3

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think that one of the issues is that Focused Efforts is so much more drastically powerful than other effects that it can be the determining factor in how fast and efficient a run can go. This power level disparity can lead to the feeling that you're at the mercy of RNG and multiple stacks of Focused Efforts or your run is wasted.

I feel like this may be on purpose. Make one vision super OP and you can balance around that pretty easily. If there were a bunch of different powerful visions, you start having to worry about how they interact and reinforce each other. But if you treat 5x Focused Efforts as max power in IA and everything else as a rounding error, it makes design and balance a lot simpler. 5x FE and 5x Targeted Ire? 2515% status effect damage against bosses is essentially the same as 2500% status effect damage against bosses if you didn't have Targeted Ire. 5x FE and Scorching Strikes? 2520% burning effect damage is essentially the same as 2500% burning effect damage if you didn't have Scorching Strikes. And so on.

It's like the old McDonald's Monopoly game. It's all about getting Boardwalk. Everything else is just for fun. Boardwalk is the real prize. In IA, everything else is just fun. FE is the real prize.

I think it takes some of the depth and excitement out IA at the expense of making the devs job easier. But that is something of a trend in ESO...

CGPsaint · September 3

The fact that making deep runs in IA is so heavily dependent on getting stacks of Focused Efforts and ZoS hasn't made any effort to either scale back the power of FE *or* better yet, increase the power of other Visions does not inspire me to spend time in content that feels so half-baked. I very rarely get more than one FE so I'll generally run 3-4 arcs and then just start over if I'm farming.

notyuu · September 4

Way back when IA first launched and was called EA got up to arc 9 using an arcanist DD and necro tank duo with 0 FE stacks

Just_Attivi · September 4

I pushed arc 14:5:1 in a duo on one bar builds
(this was prior to the board reset due to peoples exploits, maybe the first 2 months of IA, while it was still called EA)

I've run it a lot for gear, fortunes for selling mats, though I havent run the new version from the recent patch that added content to it.

in my experience, it is entirely possible to go arc6+ without focused efforts, I think we went to mid arc 9 with only 1 focused efforts (and it was on the tank lol) and we didnt even lose all lives, just ran out of real world time that day. but the time it takes vs the reward value really drops, in my opinion, after about arc 4 without focused efforts. I generally would just utilize a heavy attack build (slightly modified for IA to be tankier) for arc 1- 3, and if i dont get focused efforts by the end of arc 3, its usually better to reset and try again. if i do get a focused effort, swap to a status effect spammer and keep going.

TL:DR - yes its possible, but imo not worth it without focused efforts (barring new visions recently released that I have yet to try)

Necrotech_Master · September 4

Just_Attivi wrote: »

I pushed arc 14:5:1 in a duo on one bar builds
(this was prior to the board reset due to peoples exploits, maybe the first 2 months of IA, while it was still called EA)

I've run it a lot for gear, fortunes for selling mats, though I havent run the new version from the recent patch that added content to it.

in my experience, it is entirely possible to go arc6+ without focused efforts, I think we went to mid arc 9 with only 1 focused efforts (and it was on the tank lol) and we didnt even lose all lives, just ran out of real world time that day. but the time it takes vs the reward value really drops, in my opinion, after about arc 4 without focused efforts. I generally would just utilize a heavy attack build (slightly modified for IA to be tankier) for arc 1- 3, and if i dont get focused efforts by the end of arc 3, its usually better to reset and try again. if i do get a focused effort, swap to a status effect spammer and keep going.

TL:DR - yes its possible, but imo not worth it without focused efforts (barring new visions recently released that I have yet to try)

most of the new visions, while fun, still dont compare to the raw power output of FE

storm projection adds a chain lightning when you do dmg, and a stacking +3% (!) shock dmg
prickly ripost is nice on tanks as it adds a suped up version of the DKs spiked armor (dmg scaled on max hp, +30% more thorns dmg per stack)
adaptive conquerer is probably one of the more powerful ones if you dont mind your ult costing more, but this one gives +1% more dmg per stack per 60 ult you have, and additional +5% at 500 ult (for the quick math the per 60 ult bonus applies 8x at 450 ult, i think it gives you the 5% at 500 as a pity prize for losing out on the 9th 60 ult bonus lol) (at maximum this can provide 50% more overall dmg, but makes your ult cost 45% more)
the necrotic set amounts to (+20% magic dmg, -10% magic dmg taken, and a sustain related support verse that restores health and resources when any enemy dies)

just to name a few, a lot of them are quite fun but it still kind of pales in comparison

adaptive conquerer could probably be ideal unless your trying to run the immortal DK build with perma magma shell because it increases ult costs and you lose the dmg bonus when you use your ult

redspecter23 · September 4

Just_Attivi wrote: »

I pushed arc 14:5:1 in a duo on one bar builds
(this was prior to the board reset due to peoples exploits, maybe the first 2 months of IA, while it was still called EA)

I've run it a lot for gear, fortunes for selling mats, though I havent run the new version from the recent patch that added content to it.

in my experience, it is entirely possible to go arc6+ without focused efforts, I think we went to mid arc 9 with only 1 focused efforts (and it was on the tank lol) and we didnt even lose all lives, just ran out of real world time that day. but the time it takes vs the reward value really drops, in my opinion, after about arc 4 without focused efforts. I generally would just utilize a heavy attack build (slightly modified for IA to be tankier) for arc 1- 3, and if i dont get focused efforts by the end of arc 3, its usually better to reset and try again. if i do get a focused effort, swap to a status effect spammer and keep going.

TL:DR - yes its possible, but imo not worth it without focused efforts (barring new visions recently released that I have yet to try)

This is exactly how I see it as well. It's very possible to have a good run without Focused Efforts. It's just so much easier and faster with them. You nailed it on the restarts as well. If you're looking for a solid run, you start fishing specifically for Focused Efforts and resetting runs that don't have an ideal number by a specific arc. This encourages resets instead of pushing forward and is RNG dependent.