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U43 Home Tours - Preemptive Feedback: Improvements to the feature
MoonPile
✭✭✭✭✭
Aside from other popular features that are requested constantly, e.g.:
Update: this post was made after the reveal stream and had a lot of edits since. I've made a cleaner version here:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/758180377760251905
...
This is just in response to today's stream and now, PTS:
1. House Nicknames: was disappointed that titles are not showcase-specific. I use house nicknames with BMU addon to organize my houses for easy travel. (I constantly change the numbers, so if I'm actively working on a house it might get an 00 or 01 preface.) But for example, I don't want my "Teahouse for Azandar" to show up as "04 ATHFA" for visitors... or worse thanks to the character limit:
2. Descriptions: anyone who's done housing events knows that descriptions are crucial, both for explaining the build's story and visitor tips/instructions. Didn't see Descriptions in the stream.
EDIT; Example: Hovering over a home in EHT shows the builder's description:
With EHT, some players put a custom book containing the house description – I'd love to see a similar feature, keeping things in-game rather than in UI.
EDIT; Example:
Also worth mentioning weather control again since it shows up a ton in descriptions: "Please visit in sunny weather or lights don't work!" etc. Dark, low-contrast rain & lightning flashing are physically painful and annoying as a builder, but for streamers or judges too: they don't have time to wait around for the right conditions or return when it's finally sunny again if they have 50 others to visit.
3. Point of Interest markers: EHT has something similar. Descriptions could be shorter if we could place graphical POI markers, with an option to add short flavor text that would show up on interaction. (No slot wasting: these should not be furnishings. Should be able to show/hide so they don't clash with the visuals.)
EDIT; Example:
(This is where an official implementation could improve upon EHT. I don't like to use effects like this through the addon: they don't match the in-game aesthetics/UI, show through other objects, and not everyone has them enabled.)
For example, I started making graphics like this to help visitors, in addition to text.
The above in-game features would be better.
And since I couldn't include a graphic like that in-game, without even having text descriptions (and because of the EHT copy-paste issue!) I'd rather not use the House Tours feature for now. I don't want to share my build nor tour if there's no way to share the story or points of the build.
EDIT:
Just wanted to add that I really admire the original project, EHT. A lot of us suspected that housing tours would be the new feature and are not disappointed that it's that, but wish it came with more utility and improvements on EHT's Housing Hub, rather than being an extremely "lite" version of it.
Honestly I did expect something more robust, or at least with related features like weather control. From the outside, it appears like there may have been hurdles that tied ZOS devs' hands, preventing launching something more feature-rich. My only hope is that it's partly a time and resources issue, and that they can keep working and expanding on this.
Edited by ZOS_Kevin on 7 November 2024 10:15 - More slots*
- + Option to add slots to existing homes, e.g. make Sleek Creek 600 slots.
- + swap Collectible slots for Traditional
- Weather control. (Not just an aesthetic issue; physical eye strain and pain)
- More storage, furniture storage.
- Hide NPC paths in Edit Mode when not actively being edited. (Eye strain again, both as builder and visitor.)
- Lock interactibles. Ideally: 1. Lock all items (as is currently implemented) then 2. manually unlock specific items that would be OK for guests to use.
Update: this post was made after the reveal stream and had a lot of edits since. I've made a cleaner version here:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/758180377760251905
...
This is just in response to today's stream and now, PTS:
1. House Nicknames: was disappointed that titles are not showcase-specific. I use house nicknames with BMU addon to organize my houses for easy travel. (I constantly change the numbers, so if I'm actively working on a house it might get an 00 or 01 preface.) But for example, I don't want my "Teahouse for Azandar" to show up as "04 ATHFA" for visitors... or worse thanks to the character limit:
2. Descriptions: anyone who's done housing events knows that descriptions are crucial, both for explaining the build's story and visitor tips/instructions. Didn't see Descriptions in the stream.
EDIT; Example: Hovering over a home in EHT shows the builder's description:
With EHT, some players put a custom book containing the house description – I'd love to see a similar feature, keeping things in-game rather than in UI.
EDIT; Example:
Also worth mentioning weather control again since it shows up a ton in descriptions: "Please visit in sunny weather or lights don't work!" etc. Dark, low-contrast rain & lightning flashing are physically painful and annoying as a builder, but for streamers or judges too: they don't have time to wait around for the right conditions or return when it's finally sunny again if they have 50 others to visit.
3. Point of Interest markers: EHT has something similar. Descriptions could be shorter if we could place graphical POI markers, with an option to add short flavor text that would show up on interaction. (No slot wasting: these should not be furnishings. Should be able to show/hide so they don't clash with the visuals.)
EDIT; Example:
(This is where an official implementation could improve upon EHT. I don't like to use effects like this through the addon: they don't match the in-game aesthetics/UI, show through other objects, and not everyone has them enabled.)
For example, I started making graphics like this to help visitors, in addition to text.
The above in-game features would be better.
And since I couldn't include a graphic like that in-game, without even having text descriptions (and because of the EHT copy-paste issue!) I'd rather not use the House Tours feature for now. I don't want to share my build nor tour if there's no way to share the story or points of the build.
EDIT:
Just wanted to add that I really admire the original project, EHT. A lot of us suspected that housing tours would be the new feature and are not disappointed that it's that, but wish it came with more utility and improvements on EHT's Housing Hub, rather than being an extremely "lite" version of it.
Honestly I did expect something more robust, or at least with related features like weather control. From the outside, it appears like there may have been hurdles that tied ZOS devs' hands, preventing launching something more feature-rich. My only hope is that it's partly a time and resources issue, and that they can keep working and expanding on this.
14
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WolfCombatPet✭✭✭I don't want to share my build nor tour if there's no way to share the story or points of the build.
A lot of housing enthusiasts are feeling this.
It boggles my mind that ZOS does not ask for player feedback when throwing money/time into a new major "feature" nor did they pick any one of the numerous ideas that the housing community has been begging for.
We already have BETTER lists online and via addons. I've never struggled to find homes to tour.7 -
AllenaNightWood✭✭✭We desperately need more slots the Alpine home in Western skyrim needs to be bumped to to 650 or even 7002
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NoticeMeArkay✭✭✭✭✭
✭AllenaNightWood wrote: »We desperately need more slots the Alpine home in Western skyrim needs to be bumped to to 650 or even 700
Agreed. Also Forgemaster's Falls sits on 600 slots just as the forsaken stronghold. Which costs half us much because it got half as much space.
I spend a high amount of money on a home that later turned out to not be properly furnishable without making large areas inaccessible.2 -
Marronsuisse✭✭✭✭Also worth mentioning weather control again since it shows up a ton in descriptions: "Please visit in sunny weather or lights don't work!" etc. It's physically painful and annoying as a builder, but for streamers or judges too: they don't have time to wait around for the right conditions or return when it's finally sunny again if they have 50 others to visit.
This is one of the biggest pain points for me in housing. I decorate around the light from the windows, but then it's always cloudy when people visit and nothing looks how I intended it to :<
If we can't get weather control I'd at least love if the weather didn't stop windows from working!
Also agree that some context via a description makes touring houses much more enjoyable.2 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭✭WolfCombatPet wrote: »I don't want to share my build nor tour if there's no way to share the story or points of the build.
A lot of housing enthusiasts are feeling this.
It boggles my mind that ZOS does not ask for player feedback when throwing money/time into a new major "feature" nor did they pick any one of the numerous ideas that the housing community has been begging for.
We already have BETTER lists online and via addons. I've never struggled to find homes to tour.
I mean, they have Cardinal who made EHT. I know he understands us! (Hi, if you're reading) xD So I get the sense they were bound by some strict limitations...?
And that makes me hesitant about whether there's any point to giving PTS feedback about this too: we already know little changes once it's on PTS, and whatever limitations caused it to be so bare-bones are surely going to be a hurdle, if not an impassable wall.0 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoticeMeArkay wrote: »AllenaNightWood wrote: »We desperately need more slots the Alpine home in Western skyrim needs to be bumped to to 650 or even 700
Agreed. Also Forgemaster's Falls sits on 600 slots just as the forsaken stronghold. Which costs half us much because it got half as much space.
I spend a high amount of money on a home that later turned out to not be properly furnishable without making large areas inaccessible.
The first thing I do nowadays when I'm interested in a crownstore house is double check the entrance and some bits close to it, because I know I can probably only furnish that part... it feels a bit sad, because they make really nice houses.1 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A description field would be great. That could make it easier to make a lorebook furnishing if the book furnishing just copied the text from the official description field.
Pins would be awesome for making builds more public.
I always like making secret entrances and stuff in houses, so it would be nice to hint or pin them. Then again, it's also for strangers, and I mostly care what people I know and play with think about my houses. Caring if a stranger knew the story of my house or not wouldn't stain my enjoyment of it, because they don't know me.
Anyway, good ideas, and they sound plausible!PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner1 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »A description field would be great. That could make it easier to make a lorebook furnishing if the book furnishing just copied the text from the official description field.
Pins would be awesome for making builds more public.
I always like making secret entrances and stuff in houses, so it would be nice to hint or pin them. Then again, it's also for strangers, and I mostly care what people I know and play with think about my houses. Caring if a stranger knew the story of my house or not wouldn't stain my enjoyment of it, because they don't know me.
Anyway, good ideas, and they sound plausible!
Thank you!
Re: strangers, I get what you mean. I do think this applies to friends too: It'd be easier if these things already existed in the house and as part of the share link, rather than awkwardly asking my friend to visit an external site to read my house lore, lol (I've never actually done that)
Even as a visitor I'd love to have such guidance and go at my own pace, rather than following the owner around while they narrate. Like in contest streams, sometimes people show up during their house's tour to guide the judge.
Of course not every build needs these, nor do we need to bombard people with long novels. Just that these things exist in EHT thus in the game's API already, and could be done nicely through an official feature: better matching the aesthetics, not appearing through walls, etc.2 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »A description field would be great. That could make it easier to make a lorebook furnishing if the book furnishing just copied the text from the official description field.
Pins would be awesome for making builds more public.
I always like making secret entrances and stuff in houses, so it would be nice to hint or pin them. Then again, it's also for strangers, and I mostly care what people I know and play with think about my houses. Caring if a stranger knew the story of my house or not wouldn't stain my enjoyment of it, because they don't know me.
Anyway, good ideas, and they sound plausible!
Thank you!
Re: strangers, I get what you mean. I do think this applies to friends too: It'd be easier if these things already existed in the house and as part of the share link, rather than awkwardly asking my friend to visit an external site to read my house lore, lol (I've never actually done that)
Even as a visitor I'd love to have such guidance and go at my own pace, rather than following the owner around while they narrate. Like in contest streams, sometimes people show up during their house's tour to guide the judge.
Of course not every build needs these, nor do we need to bombard people with long novels. Just that these things exist in EHT thus in the game's API already, and could be done nicely through an official feature: better matching the aesthetics, not appearing through walls, etc.
Totally, it could be implemented very nicely a few different ways. Have clues and hints, etc, scrawls and flyers in all caps, etc. I'd hope that with them making public house visiting such a feature, there will be more incentive to implement something like this, even if it involves some potential moderation issues (can't be worse than moderating zone chat, but still). The housing team seems very passionate about housing and the community.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner1 -
WolfCombatPet✭✭✭AllenaNightWood wrote: »We desperately need more slots the Alpine home in Western skyrim needs to be bumped to to 650 or even 700
Antiquarian home needs to be 700 slots.
It's huge. I have no idea why they keep making big outdoor homes not have 700 slots.
I also want the option to simply remove buildings. Hiding them takes up so many item slots.2 -
WolfCombatPet✭✭✭
I mean, they have Cardinal who made EHT. I know he understands us! (Hi, if you're reading) xD So I get the sense they were bound by some strict limitations...?
And that makes me hesitant about whether there's any point to giving PTS feedback about this too: we already know little changes once it's on PTS
This is the worst thing about ZOS.
We never hear feedback on WHY they are not implementing our ideas. The last dev feedback about housing was 2020.
Who in the company decided that it's a bad idea to keep players informed of whether they are even discussing our feedback?
Do the devs ever hear PTS feedback? Does ZOS have anyone working for the company whose job it is to read forums and relay information on what players want?6 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭✭WolfCombatPet wrote: »
I mean, they have Cardinal who made EHT. I know he understands us! (Hi, if you're reading) xD So I get the sense they were bound by some strict limitations...?
And that makes me hesitant about whether there's any point to giving PTS feedback about this too: we already know little changes once it's on PTS
This is the worst thing about ZOS.
We never hear feedback on WHY they are not implementing our ideas. The last dev feedback about housing was 2020.
Who in the company decided that it's a bad idea to keep players informed of whether they are even discussing our feedback?
Do the devs ever hear PTS feedback? Does ZOS have anyone working for the company whose job it is to read forums and relay information on what players want?
To your last question, it kinda seems like it's just Kevin
I really don't envy his job: replying to and relaying the comments of thousands of often-angry players. He does a really good job of it, all things considered.
I also get the sense they look at the ESO Reddit also; there are occasionally replies if something is really important to reply to.
But even if I do wish there was better communication, I understand why they can't or why it'd be unwise to engage more; it's a can of worms and some people will never be happy no matter what.
From the outside it appears like resources may be too thin to expend on or hire more community outreach.0 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭✭
Updated the OP with example images –
Even if it takes more time, I still hope these would be ported over (and improved upon) in the official implementation.
EDIT:
There are many things we all wanted instead. But that's beyond the scope of this post, as stated in the OP. It's not that the feature itself is bad, but that it needs certain sub-features (see OP) to be useful to players and streamers alike.Edited by MoonPile on 28 July 2024 04:220 -
Ajaxandriel✭✭✭✭✭I just got confused realizing we are in 2024 and none of the improvements I wait since 2017 are finally arriving except the option to hop from house to house that is already doable by EHT addon.
- Custom Names
- Skybox change option (especially for "Oblivion" houses, yes I think about you Shadow Queen's Labyrinth)
- Kynareth's Weather Toggle
- Increasing furnishing slots
- adding wildlife aside from the 10 special items limit
- Furnishing inventory separate (like mats inventory)
- more full buildings "item" available by culture/race
- free camera for shots
- Alts as Guest NPCsTESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophoneAjaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50 ;Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50 ;Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50 ;Antarius Scorpio - impérial chevalier-dragon 50 ;Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50 ;Azothos Sadras - elfe noir sorcier 50 ;Celestras - haut-elfe sorcier 50 ;Diluviatar - elfe des mers sorcier 50 ;Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50 ;Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50 ;Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50 ;Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50 ;Selvaryn Virotès - elfe noire lame noire 50 ;Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50 ;Telernil - haut-elfe templier 50 ;Zadzadak - gobelin nécromancien 50 ;Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 501 -
kaisernick✭✭✭✭✭Ive said it before and ill say it again.
If they asked any players on this option (and its a big if) then it feels the only ones they did is console players, as yes this will help them share their home as right now they have no way other than direct, but we have had EHT for years which has descriptions on the lore of the home.
I didnt get hyped up for what they were going to announce but even this was a massive L for pc players.2 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭✭Speaking of saying it again, I'll just re-link the OP: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8167668
Again, There are many things we all wanted instead. But that's beyond the scope of this post.
This is what we got, and having had months prior to the preview to sit with that, I really thought it could've been good if they expanded and improved upon EHT Housing Hub (which I actually don't use due to the issues mentioned in the OP).
Parts of this news post gives me a little hope:
Update 43 Preview—Home Tours - https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66495"Once the community has had a chance to play further, we plan to continue to evaluate feedback and iterate as needed.
Of course, this is only the beginning of what’s possible with Home Tours.”
Great! I hope so
Edited by MoonPile on 15 August 2024 20:170 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭kaisernick wrote: »Ive said it before and ill say it again.
If they asked any players on this option (and its a big if) then it feels the only ones they did is console players, as yes this will help them share their home as right now they have no way other than direct, but we have had EHT for years which has descriptions on the lore of the home.
I didnt get hyped up for what they were going to announce but even this was a massive L for pc players.
Console player here. We don’t claim these changes.
This is a minor QoL activity finder update that could’ve been thrown into any random patch notes. By no means should it be interpreted as a full fledged Quarterly update.
There is no real new content until 2025 for this game6 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stafford197 wrote: »kaisernick wrote: »Ive said it before and ill say it again.
If they asked any players on this option (and its a big if) then it feels the only ones they did is console players, as yes this will help them share their home as right now they have no way other than direct, but we have had EHT for years which has descriptions on the lore of the home.
I didnt get hyped up for what they were going to announce but even this was a massive L for pc players.
Console player here. We don’t claim these changes.
This is a minor QoL activity finder update that could’ve been thrown into any random patch notes. By no means should it be interpreted as a full fledged Quarterly update.
There is no real new content until 2025 for this game
Also on the console. I could care less about tours. This is a big nothing burger dressed up as a big mac. Where's the beef!?!
PS5/NA3 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭✭I'd like to keep this thread on-topic.
There are dozens of others with the focus of criticism of the feature and asking for other things.
Speaking of saying it again, I'll just re-link the OP: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8167668
Again, There are many things we all wanted instead. But that's beyond the scope of this post.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8168473/#Comment_8168473
As it says there, it seems they'll continue to work on it, so I hope to see improvements like those discussed in the OP.
Edited by MoonPile on 15 August 2024 20:551 -
kaisernick✭✭✭✭✭Stafford197 wrote: »kaisernick wrote: »Ive said it before and ill say it again.
If they asked any players on this option (and its a big if) then it feels the only ones they did is console players, as yes this will help them share their home as right now they have no way other than direct, but we have had EHT for years which has descriptions on the lore of the home.
I didnt get hyped up for what they were going to announce but even this was a massive L for pc players.
Console player here. We don’t claim these changes.
This is a minor QoL activity finder update that could’ve been thrown into any random patch notes. By no means should it be interpreted as a full fledged Quarterly update.
There is no real new content until 2025 for this game
To be fair i didnt mean this is what console players actually asked for just that it was the only place i could posibally think where such a request came from.
espically since they have framed it like its been hotly desired for years, yet this "feature" is not something i remmember seeing anyone ask for.Speaking of saying it again, I'll just re-link the OP: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8167668
Again, There are many things we all wanted instead. But that's beyond the scope of this post.
This is what we got, and having had months prior to the preview to sit with that, I really thought it could've been good if they expanded and improved upon EHT Housing Hub (which I actually don't use due to the issues mentioned in the OP).
True but i have sat with this, when they teased a new feature i saw the rampart speculation of increased items slots alts as houseguests placable portals and i just thought "its not going to be something we expect" so i didnt have high hopes for this.
But after its announcement and sitting on it just feel this was mislead to a point i mean it is intregrating a feature a add on does already but the add on does it better so i just dont understand why they felt to bring this out like this, so half cooked and meger, the only reason i feel its coming out now is becuase they wanted to rush it out for the aniversary.0 -
QueenMisi✭✭✭I would like it if 'Guild Halls' were one of the three categories that you can list a house under.1 -
SoftPink✭I would really like to see a category such as "Crafting" or even "Guild Hall" (as the person above me suggested). I have invested a lot into my house & it has all crafting and build essentials, yet I have no accurate category / tag to label it under so that it can be found.♥ Nina2 -
I completely agree with the OP's suggestions for improvements.
However.
There is one thing I haven't noticed anyone comment about, anywhere on these forums so far, from my searching.
It'd be just super duper to be able to view the NUMBER OF PLAYERS currently inside a listed house, or FILTER by POPULATION.
This is an absolutely basic quality-of-life feature found in a certain MMORPG which has had House Listings for ten years already, and has been a feature of that housing system since its inception.
Home visits are all well and good, ZOS, but if we're looking for places to hang out, we want to know WHERE the PARTY's at!
Edited by Jupiter_Storm on 22 August 2024 02:121 -
FayJolyn✭✭✭✭I wish my visitors could leave behind small messages.
I also think that we cannot see or know when someone recommends one of our houses is a shame! I love visitors and I would like to know if people show up!Zha'ishii - Kahjiit nightblade (main) PC-EU1 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Would also be cool to see how many players have visited a home through the home tours feature. Both for the owner of the house when he is inside the house and in the home tours menu.
You can see the number of home tours recommendations received when you are inside the house and use the furniture menu. It shows the amount of home tours recommendations the home has gotten. Somewhere at the bottom of the menu that also states the amount of furniture types that were placed. Though this isn't totally what you are looking for, it somewhat does this.I wish my visitors could leave behind small messages.
I also think that we cannot see or know when someone recommends one of our houses is a shame! I love visitors and I would like to know if people show up!Edited by Sarannah on 23 August 2024 10:291 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭id like it to remember which houses i had visited, because i sure as heck don't, and going to them twice is annoying.
Imagine- I will have to find a piece of paper and a pen?!!! The sillyness!1 -
merevie✭✭✭✭✭
I REALLY want to be able to donate or leave presents for home owners.
Having a RL coffee at this house, and no way to thank the owner for the awesomness.1