Magplar or Stam Arcanist

Syiccal · August 10

Vet/hard mode content (pugs) & Arenas (excluding trials)
* Please choose and give a summary as to why if possible.

Soarora · August 10

Magplar is good for execute damage but stamarc is still meta for the buffs it can provide and the size of beam. A magplar with jabs still relies on being in melee range and for the tank to stack things properly and not every pug tank even has chains. Stamarc can beam half the room.

The_Isatope8 · August 10

Magplar
Pro's:
The Magplar can survive well by itself with its jabs, it has the best execute in the game by far, it can heal its allies without sacrificing too much damage, on demand minor Protection, good ulti-gen, can help tank with ranged immobilize that deals good damage and restores primary resource with its synergy. Templar is also very easy to play and has an easy rotation

Con's:
Magplar is pretty much forced to be melee because of its sub-par ranged spammables, It doesn't have good sustain and it's slow, Terrible ultimate's and doesn't have anything meaningful to give to the group other than Minor Sorcery.

Stam Arcanist
Pro's:
Incredible cleave, great buffs, good ultimates, relatively simple rotation, can play melee or ranged effectively, its main crux builder has execute scaling and heal components, top-tier damage, can help the tank with a DOT that pulls nearby enemies, it can apply brittle/minor vulnerability without sacrificing much damage, good sustain. It also has good ulti-gen.

Cons:
Very reliant on the crux system to deal good damage and vulnerable while beaming.

Conclusion:
Play stam arcanist. It just has more going for it than magplar and its better in solo content too.

Syiccal · August 10

From my perspective when I'm on my plar I feel like I have to work harder for the results, more to the rotation while trying to sustain, especially If i wear medium armour, it's a *** but manageable.
But it very survivable.
On the Arc everything is easier, lay couple of dots, flail and beam with no sustain issue, need pale order in some harder solo content that I don't need on plar really. Having Range helps though.

fred4 · August 11

Syiccal wrote: »

From my perspective when I'm on my plar I feel like I have to work harder for the results, more to the rotation while trying to sustain, especially If i wear medium armour, it's a *** but manageable.
But it very survivable.
On the Arc everything is easier, lay couple of dots, flail and beam with no sustain issue, need pale order in some harder solo content that I don't need on plar really. Having Range helps though.

So I agree with what others have said and with your own assessment here. However I want to add two things:

Flail will lose the execute component next patch.
I run light armor on my magplar and sustain is fine. Whorl of Depths works. Don't actually use Ansuul or whatever you're running. Ghastly Eye Bowl, Thief mundus. I'm also a one and a half bar rotation kind of guy, which means I have two damage skills on my back bar and the rest are a Honor the Dead, Race Against Time and Channeled Focus. No sustain issues (also: Breton). No mobility issues. While I don't do quite as much damage as my arcanist, I'm still average in a vet trial PUG. I have also seen a magplar slay it in vSS, far ahead of all the arcanists in the trial. Don't know what their rotation was, but they did wear Whorl. Yeah, it makes sense that set would work against a dragon (as might Flame Blossom maybe), but all builds are situational to some degree. Arcanist is the most universal, but templar is decent all round as well.

fred4 · August 11

P.S.: Don't think you're overpenetrating on a magplar in light armor. I know medium armor on magicka is perhaps a popular idea these days, but ... eh. A stamina arcanist has class passives and is maybe wearing Ansuul, resulting in ~5K penetration in a typical medium armor build. You would not have the same penetration on a medium armor templar, but you should match that number quite well in a light armor one. That's what you want. DDs with roughly the same penetration and tanks to match, not any DD (or tank) having a particular pen value in a vacuum.

Zodiarkslayer · August 11

Arcanist. Almost always.

As long as the Arc rotation is so easy, there is no point in using another option.
Except when you enjoy another class more and have a sizable comparative advantage in skill per class.

Syiccal · August 11

fred4 wrote: »

P.S.: Don't think you're overpenetrating on a magplar in light armor. I know medium armor on magicka is perhaps a popular idea these days, but ... eh. A stamina arcanist has class passives and is maybe wearing Ansuul, resulting in ~5K penetration in a typical medium armor build. You would not have the same penetration on a medium armor templar, but you should match that number quite well in a light armor one. That's what you want. DDs with roughly the same penetration and tanks to match, not any DD (or tank) having a particular pen value in a vacuum.

To be fair when I run light armour plar, usually in Deadly/Bahsies I use the shadow as my crit sits above 50% and I have decent pen

El_Borracho · August 12

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Navaac223 · August 14

If we're talking about who I'd prefer to see joining a pug, it's 100% magplar. The problem with arcs is that they're often people who just googled "how to get 100k dps without having to learn how to play".
In my experience, most arc DDs are actually good but, if one DD joined the pug expecting to get carried, it's always an arc or a HA sorc.
Magplars on the other hand requires being actually skilled. This is why bad DDs avoid it or any other class like it.

Wait I just realized we were talking about wich one can do the most dps in a pug... it's arc. How is that even a question ? xD

JoKi · August 14

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

Syiccal · August 14

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

This is my small complaint, my Arc is so easy with it's massive cleave and easy rotation, I love my main plar but it's a lot more work for the same results

El_Borracho · August 14

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

the-dude-yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.gif

Apparently the magplar is "exciting.""

JoKi · August 15

El_Borracho wrote: »

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

Apparently the magplar is "exciting.""

I mean, in comparison to the StamArc it actually is? xD
The Arc literally presses beam and can go afk, dunno how its even debatable that that is the most boring playstyle. The only reason ppl play it is because its strong.

MEBengalsFan2001 · August 15

The_Isatope8 wrote: »

Magplar
Pro's:
The Magplar can survive well by itself with its jabs, it has the best execute in the game by far, it can heal its allies without sacrificing too much damage, on demand minor Protection, good ulti-gen, can help tank with ranged immobilize that deals good damage and restores primary resource with its synergy. Templar is also very easy to play and has an easy rotation

Con's:
Magplar is pretty much forced to be melee because of its sub-par ranged spammables, It doesn't have good sustain and it's slow, Terrible ultimate's and doesn't have anything meaningful to give to the group other than Minor Sorcery.

Stam Arcanist
Pro's:
Incredible cleave, great buffs, good ultimates, relatively simple rotation, can play melee or ranged effectively, its main crux builder has execute scaling and heal components, top-tier damage, can help the tank with a DOT that pulls nearby enemies, it can apply brittle/minor vulnerability without sacrificing much damage, good sustain. It also has good ulti-gen.

Cons:
Very reliant on the crux system to deal good damage and vulnerable while beaming.

Conclusion:
Play stam arcanist. It just has more going for it than magplar and its better in solo content too.

You play Templar to beam enemies below 35% health. Prior to that all other classes are superior.

El_Borracho · August 15

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

Apparently the magplar is "exciting.""

I mean, in comparison to the StamArc it actually is? xD
The Arc literally presses beam and can go afk, dunno how its even debatable that that is the most boring playstyle. The only reason ppl play it is because its strong.

Seeing as my main was a magplar prior to the stam arc, I can attest that its not much different. Back bar buff, AOE, DOT, then jab jab jab, yellow beam versus Back bar buff, AOE, DOT, then flail flail flail, green beam, but with more DPS.

I happen to like both classes. But "the stam arc is boring" in comparison to a magplar is comical.

JoKi · August 15

El_Borracho wrote: »

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

Apparently the magplar is "exciting.""

I mean, in comparison to the StamArc it actually is? xD
The Arc literally presses beam and can go afk, dunno how its even debatable that that is the most boring playstyle. The only reason ppl play it is because its strong.

Seeing as my main was a magplar prior to the stam arc, I can attest that its not much different. Back bar buff, AOE, DOT, then jab jab jab, yellow beam versus Back bar buff, AOE, DOT, then flail flail flail, green beam, but with more DPS.

I happen to like both classes. But "the stam arc is boring" in comparison to a magplar is comical.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying MagPlar gameplay is the most fun that there is out there, but if I have to only compare the plar with the arc...
Atleast the Plar has to go melee and cant do what he does from miles away.

Nilandia · August 15

I consider myself a magplar main, though I've also used stam arcanist of late. I got Godslayer a little over a month ago and cleared vSE HM on my magplar, and I'm currently progging Lucent Citadel trifecta on my stam arcanist.

Both are very viable for upper level content. It's all about having the best tool for the job.

Templar is great at single target damage, such as against dragons in Sunspire. I had top parses on Lokke and Yoln in my core, despite being in tombs for Lokke, and I had top parse on Nahvi until my raid lead put me in war machine.

Magplar is an execution specialist. Sanity's Edge HM has multiple bosses that have a particularly punishing execute phase, so having a templar to help push the group over the edge is extremely helpful. Groups often outright reserve a roster slot for templars in content needing a good execute.

Magplar is quite resilient in portal mechanics, so I did portal on Ansuul when I would be away from the healers. They're also very sturdy for solo and 4 man content without sacrificing too much since heals are often built into the most commonly used damage abilities. Channeled focus provides resists, heals, and sustain all in one ability.

Magplar has always been rough on sustain. Before hybridization, it was all but impossible to complete a parse without heavy attacks. Even with hybridization, you might be cutting it pretty close depending on how things go. Arcanists, on the other hand, seem to have infinite sustain. Where I lived from potion to potion on my magplar, I only use potions sparingly on my arcanist.

Arcanist is an AOE and dot machine. I often run an arcanist with azureblight, and the damage can get pretty crazy.

Arcanist's crux builder is also an execute and a heal (note: next patch you'll need to deal damage to get the heal and it loses its execute), and their main source of damage can be used as a shield. They have a lot of buffs and utility built into their kit, giving them immense flexibility.

In addition, the arcanist rotation is comparatively simple to manage. My magplar constantly has to juggle dots and other abilities of various durations and try to sneak in some jabs or beams wherever possible. The arcanist, on the other hand, specifically chooses dots and other abilities with longer duration to maximize beam time.

When I was first learning the class, I ran a one-bar build for a while and managed to get a couple dungeon trifectas and a Coral Aerie HM clear. If I'm going into a new piece of content that I don't know the mechanics for, I'll often bring the arcanist because I don't need to focus as much on my rotation and can instead pay attention to what's being thrown at me.

Arcanist does have a couple weaknesses. It really doesn't have any single target to speak of. If you need to focus on one thing and avoid hitting something nearby, an arcanist doesn't have many options.

The arcanist also loads so much into its beam that it loses significant damage if the beam has to be canceled. Sometimes you just need to block, break free, or dodge, and having to do it frequently cuts into beam time. While the same is true for magplar beam, the arcanist is significantly more affected due to needing to generate crux for the next beam.

It's no surprise that arcanists are so popular in higher end content. It's not unusual for prog groups to run 6 arc DPS in a trial. But magplar absolutely has a place in trials, dungeons, arenas, and anywhere else.

freespirit · August 15

JoKi wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Loved my magplar, but the stamina arc has put it on a shelf in PVE. I don't know why you would play another DD class in endgame PVE.

Cause the stamarc is the single most boring class to play in the game?

Also I find the constant green just too much! 🤣

El_Borracho · August 15

@Nilandia Excellent breakdown. I am not saying, in any way, that the magplar is useless. I just love the damage I get out of my arc in endgame PVE. Its very tanky, so I have no problem running VSS or VCR portals. I would disagree a tad about arc's single target because the flail and beam are fantastic, but in comparison to the Jesus beam execute, magplar is better at single target. And yes, if you have to "hit this, not that" its not great.

But what got me over to the arc camp is the beam's ability to cut through multiple targets without losing DPS. If you can position yourself correctly, you can cut down multiple adds, as in VRG or VLC or VSE. And yeah, Azure helps even more.

boi_anachronism_ · August 15

Super content dependant and in my rather extensive experience, atleast on ps/na, both are represented in end game. Right now arcs make up the core with one parse plar being commonplace, two is extremely common for td/dm (see team brazils last dm run). They are excellent for taleria as well. The next update based on what im seeing will have dk/plar comps become much more common with the flail nerf. That said without dressing room console will still likely lean into the arc simply for ease.

On a personal note: I play both plar and arc in high level content, pb, hh ect. Yeah plar is harder. It just is. There is more dot management, resource management is more difficult, and its just a higher skill class comparatively. Im a blade main. I want something that requires some skill to make it slap and I'll play it every day of the week over my arc given the option. I just find it more engaging. I mean if i could play my blade that would be ideal but given the choice its plar all the way. Opinion obviously.

On a final note - you should never crutch on one class. All classes get nerfs. Some can put em out of commission for pve for an indeterminate period of time. As a dps i try and maintain at least 3 classes I can play confidently at a min of 115k dps. Obviously what you want to hit depends on what content you are playing, you dont have to hit 115k to be competent or comfortable on a class, but the takeaway here is just become comfortable on more then one class.

Necrotech_Master · August 15

i generally prefer stam because it makes it so i dont have to worry about negates lol

theres a lot of pve content where they just like throwing negate type aoes around and playing as a stam alleviates a lot of that problem

JoKi · August 16

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i generally prefer stam because it makes it so i dont have to worry about negates lol

theres a lot of pve content where they just like throwing negate type aoes around and playing as a stam alleviates a lot of that problem

I like mag, cause then I can sprint between fights and am not out of ressources xD

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Magplar or Stam Arcanist

Magplar or Stam Arcanist 30 votes