Change the druid bear's abilities please

Justosay · August 6

Give them charge. Charge+CC is even better. Now it's completely useless (too slow to do any milli damage).
Or replace bear with any pet that makes range damage.

LunaFlora · August 6

what bear are you referring to?

El_Borracho · August 6

LunaFlora wrote: »

what bear are you referring to?

Guessing the Warden bear

Justosay · August 6

El_Borracho wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

what bear are you referring to?

Guessing the Warden bear

Sure

Necrotech_Master · August 6

warden bear is one of the wardens highest dps abilities as is lol

im assuming this is more for pvp, where the bear is much less useful

Justosay · August 6

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

warden bear is one of the wardens highest dps abilities as is lol

im assuming this is more for pvp, where the bear is much less useful

The wardens highest dps abilities is Ballista and Silver Shards lol
I assume you mean theoretical dps. In practice, any boss doesn't stand there and wait for that poor bear to come to him, and probably won't forget what he needs to do. It's certainly not "push and forget" skill. Try soloing any outdoor boss in Western Skyrim, Reach, High Isle, Galen... maybe you'll see what I mean.

LunaFlora · August 7

Ballista and Silver Shards aren't Warden abilities, they're Bow and Fighters Guild abilities.

my bear does pretty well against world bosses in those zones so i don't see what you mean at all.

if you want a bear that charges you could use Trample from Scribing and select a bear mount.
You can even give it Stun, Immobilising Strike, and Off Balance for Crowd Control.

Justosay · August 7

LunaFlora wrote: »

Ballista and Silver Shards aren't Warden abilities, they're Bow and Fighters Guild abilities.

Congratulations, you can make logical conclusions.

Now make another one - compare it not to the worse warden spells, but to the spells of other classes.

my bear does pretty well against world bosses in those zones so i don't see what you mean at all.

Well, let me explain it to you... The problem with the bear is that if the boss charges, TPs, or just moves really fast, your bear runs to the boss but can't damage him. And if you want him to do "ultimate damage", you can't cast any spells after pressing the ultimate ability until your bear starts to deal damage, otherwise that spell will be "overwritten" by your next spells and your bear will "forget" to deal ultimate damage. This happened many times in my practice.

if you want a bear that charges you could use Trample from Scribing and select a bear mount.
You can even give it Stun, Immobilising Strike, and Off Balance for Crowd Control.

Lol. If you bought a coffee machine, and it does not make coffee for you, you can go to a cafe and drink coffee there. But why did you buy a coffee machine?

BananaBender · August 7

Justosay wrote: »

And if you want him to do "ultimate damage", you can't cast any spells after pressing the ultimate ability until your bear starts to deal damage, otherwise that spell will be "overwritten" by your next spells and your bear will "forget" to deal ultimate damage. This happened many times in my practice.

Are you using CMX or logs to verify that? Because I've never ran into that issue before. Sure the targeting could use a change/a buff, and I wouldn't be opposed to having the bear actually charge at the target I'm using my ult on, but saying that the bear doesn't do really good damage is just not true.

I don't know what build you are using if Ballista is one of your most damaging skills. If you want to have a high damaging Warden skill in your kit, I would look into slotting Subterranean Assault.

Justosay · August 7

BananaBender wrote: »

Are you using CMX or logs to verify that? Because I've never ran into that issue before. Sure the targeting could use a change/a buff, and I wouldn't be opposed to having the bear actually charge at the target I'm using my ult on, but saying that the bear doesn't do really good damage is just not true.

If you're having trouble reading my comments, I can repeat it for you again. The bear (and any of your melee allies) uses melee damage. The time it takes them to run to the boss to do this does not count as part of the spell. If you stop them on the way the spell doesn't counted as "spell cast".
The only "good damage" they do is the damage they do to the training dummy.

I don't know what build you are using if Ballista is one of your most damaging skills. If you want to have a high damaging Warden skill in your kit, I would look into slotting Subterranean Assault.

Lol. Did you even read the description of your... "suggestion"?
Okay, just for you.
The first damage you deal with this spell, you deal after 3 seconds. This means you need to divide that damage by three to calculate the dps. And only after 3 seconds (at least; the full damage takes 6 seconds) can you cast the spell again. And the mobs (unlike the training dummy) don't stand still the whole time (this is a problem for any ground spell that lasts NN seconds).
Now look at your skills. Silver Shards (because Ballista is an ultimate spell and you can't replace it with Subterranean Assault) increases your weapon and spell damage by 3% (because of Slayer), and you can cast it 3(6) times within 3(6) seconds. Now calculate and compare the damage of both spells for 6 seconds.

Necrotech_Master · August 7

Justosay wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

warden bear is one of the wardens highest dps abilities as is lol

im assuming this is more for pvp, where the bear is much less useful

The wardens highest dps abilities is Ballista and Silver Shards lol
I assume you mean theoretical dps. In practice, any boss doesn't stand there and wait for that poor bear to come to him, and probably won't forget what he needs to do. It's certainly not "push and forget" skill. Try soloing any outdoor boss in Western Skyrim, Reach, High Isle, Galen... maybe you'll see what I mean.

ive never had issues with the bear on any boss, its basically free passive dmg and i like seeing 60k dmg crits with the useable ult execute from it lol

neither of my wardens use bow, so ballista is not an option, dont have silver shards slotted on either as well

one of my wardens is a WW so he doesnt use the bear as thats the build route i wanted to go with him, the other is more of a tank that uses an ice staff, i do frequently use the bear on him except in some encounters that kill the bear rather quickly (such as vet vateshran)

personally prefer the bear over most of the other ults because its active at all times dealing constant dmg

thadjarvis · August 7

Make a morph NOT a pet. IE a castable option like Incap. That would permit more builds of warden's to use AOE ultimates in PvE. Right now getting rid of pet just wrecks DPS. In order to make that work, they need to nerf the DPS of the bear, increase the one-time hit, and buff the rest of their damage to balance the bear DPS reduction.

The charge is a good idea too. Stun is a PvP balance item I can't opine on, but it can't be that wild given Warden used to get stun on Fissure.

BananaBender · August 7

Justosay wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

Are you using CMX or logs to verify that? Because I've never ran into that issue before. Sure the targeting could use a change/a buff, and I wouldn't be opposed to having the bear actually charge at the target I'm using my ult on, but saying that the bear doesn't do really good damage is just not true.

If you're having trouble reading my comments, I can repeat it for you again. The bear (and any of your melee allies) uses melee damage. The time it takes them to run to the boss to do this does not count as part of the spell. If you stop them on the way the spell doesn't counted as "spell cast".
The only "good damage" they do is the damage they do to the training dummy.

I don't know what build you are using if Ballista is one of your most damaging skills. If you want to have a high damaging Warden skill in your kit, I would look into slotting Subterranean Assault.

Lol. Did you even read the description of your... "suggestion"?
Okay, just for you.
The first damage you deal with this spell, you deal after 3 seconds. This means you need to divide that damage by three to calculate the dps. And only after 3 seconds (at least; the full damage takes 6 seconds) can you cast the spell again. And the mobs (unlike the training dummy) don't stand still the whole time (this is a problem for any ground spell that lasts NN seconds).
Now look at your skills. Silver Shards (because Ballista is an ultimate spell and you can't replace it with Subterranean Assault) increases your weapon and spell damage by 3% (because of Slayer), and you can cast it 3(6) times within 3(6) seconds. Now calculate and compare the damage of both spells for 6 seconds.

I'm well aware of how dps is calculated, but it seems that you need a quick introduction to how to deal the very entry level damage in this game. You are not supposed to only cast one skill over and over again, you can cast one skill per second (called Global Cooldown, GCD for short), so you want as much value out of a single cast. DoTs take longer to deal their full damage, but have higher damage per cast than burst skills. This means that you want to layer multiple DoTs (AoE and single target) on your opponent while filling the gaps with your burst skill (also called a spammable). It takes 6 seconds for Subterranean Assault to deal all of its damage, but it only takes one Global Cooldown to cast to deal all that damage. Which means while it is doing its damage, you can cast other skills to further increase your DPS. As for the boss moving, the skill moves with you and launches to the direction your character is facing, so as long as you are not running away from the boss it will deal its full damage. So, per cast (which is the only reasonable metric) Subterranean Assault is better and more damaging than Silver Shards.

Silver Shards isn't a bad skill, in fact it might be one of the best spammables for Stamina Warden currently, but saying that it's the most damaging skill in warden's kit is just not true.

AoEs are also very viable in real content and not just on the dummy, you might have to place them again if the boss moves, but that comes down to knowing the bosses mechanics and phases where you are free to deal damage.

Justosay wrote: »

Well, let me explain it to you... The problem with the bear is that if the boss charges, TPs, or just moves really fast, your bear runs to the boss but can't damage him. And if you want him to do "ultimate damage", you can't cast any spells after pressing the ultimate ability until your bear starts to deal damage, otherwise that spell will be "overwritten" by your next spells and your bear will "forget" to deal ultimate damage. This happened many times in my practice.

This is just not true, unless there is a very rare bug where this happens. Here is my proof, the red line in the beginning is where I casted my bears "ultimate damage", followed by 3 casts of another skill (Frost Reach) and the pillar on the graph is the moment my bear dealt his "ultimate damage". Casting other skills does not cancel your ultimate.

Yes, this is on target dummy and yes, I did test it in overland and it functioned the same way.

It will cancel if your target dies, or if you order your bear to attack another target while he is doing his ultimate attack.

Justosay · August 7

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ive never had issues with the bear on any boss, its basically free passive dmg and i like seeing 60k dmg crits with the useable ult execute from it lol

neither of my wardens use bow, so ballista is not an option, dont have silver shards slotted on either as well

one of my wardens is a WW so he doesnt use the bear as thats the build route i wanted to go with him, the other is more of a tank that uses an ice staff, i do frequently use the bear on him except in some encounters that kill the bear rather quickly (such as vet vateshran)

personally prefer the bear over most of the other ults because its active at all times dealing constant dmg

Your "ive never had issues with the bear" doesn't mean there isn't an issue. It's more about your dps, especially when you "like seeing 60k dmg crits" with your ultimate (btw, Balista does over 60k damage before crit), and not understanding 1) that boss fights have phases, 2) what is burst damage, and 3) the need to switch between bosses/adds if there are multiple.
As I already wrote, the bear needs time to reach the target, and during this time it does not cause any damage.

Necrotech_Master · August 7

Justosay wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ive never had issues with the bear on any boss, its basically free passive dmg and i like seeing 60k dmg crits with the useable ult execute from it lol

neither of my wardens use bow, so ballista is not an option, dont have silver shards slotted on either as well

one of my wardens is a WW so he doesnt use the bear as thats the build route i wanted to go with him, the other is more of a tank that uses an ice staff, i do frequently use the bear on him except in some encounters that kill the bear rather quickly (such as vet vateshran)

personally prefer the bear over most of the other ults because its active at all times dealing constant dmg

Your "ive never had issues with the bear" doesn't mean there isn't an issue. It's more about your dps, especially when you "like seeing 60k dmg crits" with your ultimate (btw, Balista does over 60k damage before crit), and not understanding 1) that boss fights have phases, 2) what is burst damage, and 3) the need to switch between bosses/adds if there are multiple.
As I already wrote, the bear needs time to reach the target, and during this time it does not cause any damage.

50-60k crits is what im getting on a "tank" build

i dont think ive ever used a full dps warden

in most pve content the bear doesnt hardly take any dmg from aoes and in most major content, like vet trials, theres many of those bosses that dont move much or at all and its generally still dealing constant dmg while your ballista is doing absolutely nothing during the time your refilling your ultimate

if you want to use the ballista over the bear thats perfectly viable, but the bear itself is just as viable and is usually in the top of a wardens dps

now if your talking about changing one of the morphs of the bear, because one of them is better than the other as the free rez morph of the bear isnt all that useful if the bear doesnt die often, so the stam morph just outpaces it in dmg

Justosay · August 8

BananaBender wrote: »

DoTs take longer to deal their full damage, but have higher damage per cast than burst skills. This means that you want to layer multiple DoTs (AoE and single target) on your opponent while filling the gaps with your burst skill (also called a spammable). It takes 6 seconds for Subterranean Assault to deal all of its damage, but it only takes one Global Cooldown to cast to deal all that damage. Which means while it is doing its damage, you can cast other skills to further increase your DPS. As for the boss moving, the skill moves with you and launches to the direction your character is facing, so as long as you are not running away from the boss it will deal its full damage. So, per cast (which is the only reasonable metric) Subterranean Assault is better and more damaging than Silver Shards.

1) It seems like you need a quick introduction to the lifespan of average mob in most content. It's under 6 seconds.
2) "Always face the boss" is the weirdest movement tactic considering the boss mechanics.

This is just not true, unless there is a very rare bug where this happens. Here is my proof, the red line in the beginning is where I casted my bears "ultimate damage", followed by 3 casts of another skill (Frost Reach) and the pillar on the graph is the moment my bear dealt his "ultimate damage". Casting other skills does not cancel your ultimate.

Because you cast them on the same target, and your target doesn't tp to the other end of the battlefield (so your slow bear runs across the entire area again without doing any damage) and your target doesn't spawn adds (so you have to kill the adds first).

Justosay · August 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

50-60k crits is what im getting on a "tank" build

i dont think ive ever used a full dps warden

The damage you deal with crits does not depend on the "name" of your build, it depends on the "base" damage + "bonus" damage. With the same % of critical damage, the Ballista has more base damage.

in most pve content the bear doesnt hardly take any dmg from aoes and in most major content, like vet trials, theres many of those bosses that dont move much or at all and its generally still dealing constant dmg while your ballista is doing absolutely nothing during the time your refilling your ultimate

if you want to use the ballista over the bear thats perfectly viable, but the bear itself is just as viable and is usually in the top of a wardens dps

Lol. Most of the PVE content in the game is overland, public and 4-ppl. And the average mob in that content has a lifespan of less than 6 seconds. The only exception is bosses, but most of their scripts force you to deal burst damage instead of "constant".

And once again. What you still don't want to understand and what this topic is about. Without a charge, the bear needs time to run to the target, and during this time it does not cause any damage. At all.

Necrotech_Master · August 8

Justosay wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

50-60k crits is what im getting on a "tank" build

i dont think ive ever used a full dps warden

The damage you deal with crits does not depend on the "name" of your build, it depends on the "base" damage + "bonus" damage. With the same % of critical damage, the Ballista has more base damage.

in most pve content the bear doesnt hardly take any dmg from aoes and in most major content, like vet trials, theres many of those bosses that dont move much or at all and its generally still dealing constant dmg while your ballista is doing absolutely nothing during the time your refilling your ultimate

if you want to use the ballista over the bear thats perfectly viable, but the bear itself is just as viable and is usually in the top of a wardens dps

Lol. Most of the PVE content in the game is overland, public and 4-ppl. And the average mob in that content has a lifespan of less than 6 seconds. The only exception is bosses, but most of their scripts force you to deal burst damage instead of "constant".

And once again. What you still don't want to understand and what this topic is about. Without a charge, the bear needs time to run to the target, and during this time it does not cause any damage. At all.

the time running to the target is usually only a few seconds, and i specifically mentioned vet trial bosses, not overland, you definitely dont need any ults for overland or even public dungeons

if you only have the base 3 ult per sec generation without any other ult granting (heroism, etc), your only using the ballista once per 58 seconds, with a 5 second active time that is 53 seconds of downtime

sure the bear has a few seconds here and there its not dealing dmg, but in most boss fights its doing consistent dmg the whole fight unless its an encounter that has things that can kill it easily

again, you can use whatever ult you want, but i dont see any problem with the bear outside of the difference in its own morphs being too similar and one of them obviously weaker

Justosay · August 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the time running to the target is usually only a few seconds, and i specifically mentioned vet trial bosses, not overland, you definitely dont need any ults for overland or even public dungeons

if you only have the base 3 ult per sec generation without any other ult granting (heroism, etc), your only using the ballista once per 58 seconds, with a 5 second active time that is 53 seconds of downtime

sure the bear has a few seconds here and there its not dealing dmg, but in most boss fights its doing consistent dmg the whole fight unless its an encounter that has things that can kill it easily

again, you can use whatever ult you want, but i dont see any problem with the bear outside of the difference in its own morphs being too similar and one of them obviously weaker

Lol. Mirrormoor Incursions and Volcanic Vents are overland, Atoll of Immolation is public, any WB or WWB are overland. You don't need any ultimate spells to fight them? Lol.
And in most cases your bear name is "Too late again". BTW, why don't you use "any other ult granting" in fights?

Well, I guess you came to ESO from one of the very old MMOs where raids are considered "top content" and affect every other aspect of the game. That's not the case in this game, and vet trials are just a small part of the overall content, like all the others. So please, if you are very happy with your current ultimate spell in your "area of interest", don't tell others what they must have in their one. The proposed change will not change anything for you, but will be very useful for the majority (due to the most content) of the players.

Necrotech_Master · August 8

Justosay wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the time running to the target is usually only a few seconds, and i specifically mentioned vet trial bosses, not overland, you definitely dont need any ults for overland or even public dungeons

if you only have the base 3 ult per sec generation without any other ult granting (heroism, etc), your only using the ballista once per 58 seconds, with a 5 second active time that is 53 seconds of downtime

sure the bear has a few seconds here and there its not dealing dmg, but in most boss fights its doing consistent dmg the whole fight unless its an encounter that has things that can kill it easily

again, you can use whatever ult you want, but i dont see any problem with the bear outside of the difference in its own morphs being too similar and one of them obviously weaker

Lol. Mirrormoor Incursions and Volcanic Vents are overland, Atoll of Immolation is public, any WB or WWB are overland. You don't need any ultimate spells to fight them? Lol.
And in most cases your bear name is "Too late again". BTW, why don't you use "any other ult granting" in fights?

Well, I guess you came to ESO from one of the very old MMOs where raids are considered "top content" and affect every other aspect of the game. That's not the case in this game, and vet trials are just a small part of the overall content, like all the others. So please, if you are very happy with your current ultimate spell in your "area of interest", don't tell others what they must have in their one. The proposed change will not change anything for you, but will be very useful for the majority (due to the most content) of the players.

i never said i dont use ult gaining, thats just the maximum amount of time it takes for it to regen

if you have say minor heroism active most of the time it will reduce that, for sure, but its still a lot of downtime

and yes you definitely dont need ults for incursions, unless your say trying to solo them and want the extra dmg

try doing an atoll right now, theres dozens of people standing on the bosses, you dont need an ultimate to kill that in 5 seconds

i still stand by my opinion ive never had problems with the bear in literally any of those situations that you lis:, incursions, WB/WWB, group dungeons, trials, arenas

if something is dying fast enough that the bear wont get to it, then you never needed your ult in the first place

Justosay · August 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i never said i dont use ult gaining, thats just the maximum amount of time it takes for it to regen

if you have say minor heroism active most of the time it will reduce that, for sure, but its still a lot of downtime

Lol. So you use it, but you calculate the "maximum amount" instead of the real amount to impress me...

and yes you definitely dont need ults for incursions, unless your say trying to solo them and want the extra dmg

try doing an atoll right now, theres dozens of people standing on the bosses, you dont need an ultimate to kill that in 5 seconds

Lol. There are so many people there now that using a light attack is enough. Does that mean you "definitely don't need" spells to do atoll of immolation at all?

i still stand by my opinion ive never had problems with the bear in literally any of those situations that you lis:, incursions, WB/WWB, group dungeons, trials, arenas

Lol. Your "ive never had issues with the bear" doesn't mean there isn't an issue. So please, if you are very happy with your current ultimate spell, don't tell others what they must have when proposed change will not change anything for you, but will be very useful for the majority of the players.

if something is dying fast enough that the bear wont get to it, then you never needed your ult in the first place

Lol. "Something is dying fast enough" because I uses other ultimate spells. If you use bear, "then you never needed your ult in the first place".
Without a charge, the bear needs time to run to the target, and during this time it does not cause any damage. Boss can tp to the other end of the battlefield, so your bear runs across the entire area again without doing any damage. Boss fight has phases, in several ones you can't damage boss at all, and your bear, having finally run to the target, is useless.

BananaBender · August 9

Honestly, it seems like you just want to complain for the sake of complaining. People here have tried to help and have a normal conversation, but each time you attack them for their comments instead of communicating like a normal person.

If you time your ultimate cast often just as the boss jumps away that just really sounds like a skill issue on your part...
A charge could be a cool addition, I'm not arguing about that, but you casting your ult at the wrong time isn't the skills fault, it's yours. Also, saying that the bear doesn't deal damage when it's running is absolutely pointless. Your ballista doesn't deal damage when you don't have enough ultimate.

Earlier you pointed out that enemies die before the Subterranean Assault has time to deal damage, so just cast it before the fight and now it only takes 3 seconds to deal both instances of damage. Since that was too difficult of a concept for you to grasp I think it's completely pointless to talk with you about anything combat related. Keep using what ever build you want, but please don't talk like you know what you are talking about.

Araneae6537 · August 9

The archdruid (monster helm) bear is actually cool
Now the warden bear, I have never liked and wish we had other options, but the other ultimates are nice even if they aren’t generally meta.

Justosay · August 9

BananaBender wrote: »

Honestly, it seems like you just want to complain for the sake of complaining. People here have tried to help and have a normal conversation, but each time you attack them for their comments instead of communicating like a normal person.

If you time your ultimate cast often just as the boss jumps away that just really sounds like a skill issue on your part...

Lol. The last sentence of that quote is exactly what you call "attack them for their comments instead of communicating like a normal person" describing my comments. So I don't think you are here "have tried to help and have a normal conversation".
Or "some animals are more equal than others"?

A charge could be a cool addition, I'm not arguing about that,

Finally you have expressed your opinion on the topic!
In fact, everything written except this is irrelevant, you could have saved time by not writing anything else.

but you casting your ult at the wrong time

Lol. You have two options: 1) cast it ASAP (and then it's basically useless), 2) wait for the right moment (and then you'll spend the same amount of ult points as casting Ballista, which definitely does more damage).

Keep using what ever build you want, but please don't talk like you know what you are talking about.

Lol. It seems you have some reason not to take "the path of least resistance". Obviously I don't know them.