Vampire Stage 2/3/4 pointless now after Undeath nerf.

Good_VS_Evil · July 12

Are there any plans to buff these stages now that the best passive you got for being at these stages has been moved to stage 1? If Vampire players only need to be Stage 1 to get the best benefits why would they ever choose to delve further? Vampirism is suppose to be give and take.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 12

Not sure what exactly your barometer for pointless is.

Strike From Shadows is one of the best passives in the game for Nightblades in PvP.

Unnatural Movement is also an excellent passive for open world builds that lack escape tools.

Finally, are you forgetting that each stage reduces the cost of Vampire abilities? The ultimate and Vamp Slap are both great abilities, and reducing the cost of these can be extremely important for certain builds. Mist form has a ramping cost, so it benefits from higher stages a lot as well.

Good_VS_Evil · July 12

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Not sure what exactly your barometer for pointless is.

Strike From Shadows is one of the best passives in the game for Nightblades in PvP.

Unnatural Movement is also an excellent passive for open world builds that lack escape tools.

Finally, are you forgetting that each stage reduces the cost of Vampire abilities? The ultimate and Vamp Slap are both great abilities, and reducing the cost of these can be extremely important for certain builds. Mist form has a ramping cost, so it benefits from higher stages a lot as well.

Those were nice due to the 30% damage mitigation you were going to be getting anyways so players tend to put up with being stage 3 at most...rarely would people go stage 4.

Now that "Undeath" procs at stage 1, I expect a slew of people to cure their vampirism or only stay stage 1 if this update goes live. Delving deeper into vampirism isnt worth the pay off without the extra 20% DMG Mit, you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot if you dont use a certain build that only takes advantage of the Vampire skill-line or if you happen to be a Night Blade.

master_vanargand · July 13

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

Good_VS_Evil · July 13

master_vanargand wrote: »

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

In my experience stage 4 was primarily used by gankers. The average Vampire stage 3 player was using it solely for "Undeath".

The entire Vampire skill-line is just everywhere, this is what happens when you dont have a clear direction for a concept.

master_vanargand · July 13

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

In my experience stage 4 was primarily used by gankers. The average Vampire stage 3 player was using it solely for "Undeath".

The entire Vampire skill-line is just everywhere, this is what happens when you dont have a clear direction for a concept.

You may not know this, but a 28m range non gank build with Vampire stage 4 is amazing in a wide open field PvP like Cyrodiil.
If you think about it rationally, you'll notice that there is no pure 28m flame damage spam skill.
Even Force Shock haved 1/3 of the flame damage.

Good_VS_Evil · July 13

master_vanargand wrote: »

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

In my experience stage 4 was primarily used by gankers. The average Vampire stage 3 player was using it solely for "Undeath".

The entire Vampire skill-line is just everywhere, this is what happens when you dont have a clear direction for a concept.

You may not know this, but a 28m range non gank build with Vampire stage 4 is amazing in a wide open field PvP like Cyrodiil.
If you think about it rationally, you'll notice that there is no pure 28m flame damage spam skill.
Even Force Shock haved 1/3 of the flame damage.

You are playing sub-optimally if you are going stage 4 Vampirism and you are NOT playing a gank build.

master_vanargand · July 13

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

In my experience stage 4 was primarily used by gankers. The average Vampire stage 3 player was using it solely for "Undeath".

The entire Vampire skill-line is just everywhere, this is what happens when you dont have a clear direction for a concept.

You may not know this, but a 28m range non gank build with Vampire stage 4 is amazing in a wide open field PvP like Cyrodiil.
If you think about it rationally, you'll notice that there is no pure 28m flame damage spam skill.
Even Force Shock haved 1/3 of the flame damage.

You are playing sub-optimally if you are going stage 4 Vampirism and you are NOT playing a gank build.

Cyrodiil is AvA.
There are often 100+ players gathered in one place fighting.

Only gank? Why do you think so?

Cyrodiil isn't only about running resource towers or crouching in towns waiting for some poor lone player to show up.
Most players play in the battle of large armies.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 13

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

In my experience stage 4 was primarily used by gankers. The average Vampire stage 3 player was using it solely for "Undeath".

The entire Vampire skill-line is just everywhere, this is what happens when you dont have a clear direction for a concept.

You may not know this, but a 28m range non gank build with Vampire stage 4 is amazing in a wide open field PvP like Cyrodiil.
If you think about it rationally, you'll notice that there is no pure 28m flame damage spam skill.
Even Force Shock haved 1/3 of the flame damage.

You are playing sub-optimally if you are going stage 4 Vampirism and you are NOT playing a gank build.

Stage 4 is an escape tool. You do not need to be playing a gank build to utilize an escape tool.

Good_VS_Evil · July 13

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Actually I've used Vampire stage 4 on a live server.
It's better than I expected, and it greatly improves the survivability of classes without escape tools.
Basically, when Vampire stage 4 run, enemy players' melee attacks are out of range, so melee builds can't do damage.

Running costs half as much, so it's hard for enemy players to follow Vampire stage 4.
And Vampire stage 4 become invisible for free. This is really great.

I don't care about the increased flame damage. no problem.
DK is a melee build, so if Vampire stage 4 run and keep a long distance, there's no threat other than DK ult.
If Vampire stage 4 is fighting a 28m range class, need to use a little ingenuity, but it's easy to escape.

In my experience stage 4 was primarily used by gankers. The average Vampire stage 3 player was using it solely for "Undeath".

The entire Vampire skill-line is just everywhere, this is what happens when you dont have a clear direction for a concept.

You may not know this, but a 28m range non gank build with Vampire stage 4 is amazing in a wide open field PvP like Cyrodiil.
If you think about it rationally, you'll notice that there is no pure 28m flame damage spam skill.
Even Force Shock haved 1/3 of the flame damage.

You are playing sub-optimally if you are going stage 4 Vampirism and you are NOT playing a gank build.

Stage 4 is an escape tool. You do not need to be playing a gank build to utilize an escape tool.

Does ganking have another definition in ESO? From my experience in MMO PVP, ganking is using cheese tactics to get to an enemy kill/damage them while they are unaware or unsuspecting and then leaving before a zerg/group come to retaliate.

Having access to a free invisibility run at will seems pretty great if this is what you want to do to players in pvp.

If you are into more traditional combat/team play PVP then YES there would be no point in using this ability therefore no point in debilitating yourself by being stage 4 vampire.