merpins wrote: »

Depends on your setup. It's ranged, comes with a huge heal. It really could use a decent sized damage buff, 10-30%. Soul Cleaver could also easily be a 25% damage increase with no ult cost and still be mediocre. But both would make it viable in some setups.

It's possible that u42 with Scribing might make it a viable option, depending on what can be made with scribing. But Concealed Weapon will still almost always be better, since both options do magic damage. My idea for a build would be War Maidens, Soul Cleaver, and either a mythic that increases damage in some way (Velothi, Mora's, or Sea-Serpent's), or a magic damage monster set (Kjalnar's or Nerien'eth). But again, it's still gonna probably be worse than a normal setup. Which is too bad. It should be at least viable, but it probably won't be. It was pre 2017, but after periodic damage nerfs, it's been relegated to a healing skill essentially.

Does Soulcleaver buff Soul Tether? I don’t remember where it landed in the PTS. If it does it might be worth trying to go make a Siphoning build but it would be niche.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Depends on your setup. It's ranged, comes with a huge heal. It really could use a decent sized damage buff, 10-30%. Soul Cleaver could also easily be a 25% damage increase with no ult cost and still be mediocre. But both would make it viable in some setups.

It's possible that u42 with Scribing might make it a viable option, depending on what can be made with scribing. But Concealed Weapon will still almost always be better, since both options do magic damage. My idea for a build would be War Maidens, Soul Cleaver, and either a mythic that increases damage in some way (Velothi, Mora's, or Sea-Serpent's), or a magic damage monster set (Kjalnar's or Nerien'eth). But again, it's still gonna probably be worse than a normal setup. Which is too bad. It should be at least viable, but it probably won't be. It was pre 2017, but after periodic damage nerfs, it's been relegated to a healing skill essentially.

Does Soulcleaver buff Soul Tether? I don’t remember where it landed in the PTS. If it does it might be worth trying to go make a Siphoning build but it would be niche.

yes, the current version of soulcleaver buffs all siphoning skills, including the ultimate

so all abilities in siphoning have +18% dmg, +18% healing, and -18% cost the cost of 1 ultimate per cast (obviously the ult still consumes all of your ult when its cast, but it still benefits from the buffs, though im not sure about the cost reduction though)

merpins wrote: »

It really could use a decent sized damage buff, 10-30%.

The game has skill standards, it can't just get a 10-30% buff just because Concealed Weapon is better for DPS, especially since half the focus of this skill is survivability and it does that better than any spammable I can think of.

As an instant ranged spammable it has the same damage/cost as these abilities (note: stam instant ranged spammables have -15% cost as do all stamina based skill variants).

• Silver Shards (before the 10% passive)
• Inner Beast
• Force Pulse (3 hits combined)
• Cliff Racer
• Flame Skull
• Crystal Weapon
• Crushing Weapon
• Elemental Weapon
• Ice Frost Reach
• The countless other ranged instant spammables that will come with Scribing in a few months.

The reason NB's think it's terrible is because they're comparing it to one of the best melee spammables in the game, which by definition in ZOS's standards automatically scales at least 10% harder for -15% cost before any other additional effects. I see comparisons to cast time and channel spammables as well like Snipe or Flurry, both of which also warrant their own damage bonus because they're not instant and/or can be interrupted and/or only focus on damage output vs survivability of this skill.

In my opinion, I think Swallow Soul is just as good as any of these skills, if not better as none of those are even close as a great survival tool. The only reason it may be overshadowed by a skill in its category like Force Pulse, is because FP is cracked right now with how it hits 3 times for 3 different elements and can do some aoe. Status Effects are buffed now, so it's become kind of important.

While I don't think a buff is necessary, if I were to buff it it would be in a roundabout way that isn't just +10-30% damage (which simply can't happen based on standards):

• Guaranteed Status effect application, maybe even a different status effect like Hemorrhaging similar to how Vampires work now. (You can proc 2 status effects with 1 damage source - eg. Overcharged from base skill + Guaranteed Hemorrhage)
• A 10s dot, Cutting Dive and Ice Reach do this. It increases the DPS, while not effecting the burst making it more useful in PVE. This is probably the most likely seeing as the skill already gives a 10s hot, they could go together.
• Add a unique effect which indirectly improves DPS like ult return or a debuff... although, this skill technically already does this by playing off the passives in the line for +8% Magicka when slotted, +2 ult every 4s, and +3% healing done.
• Lower cost or some type of resource return, allowing you to build less into sustain for more damage stats or spend less time on resetting the fight in PVP encounters for more pressure.

Swallow Soul: it's spammable, it's sustain, it's sustainable spam! Great for trial runners obsessed with DPS meters? No. A staple for PVE soloing and PUGs, keeping yourself alive while still doing damage from range? You bet, especially when you combine it with Siphoning Strikes after Update 41. Also fun to annoy people in PVP who thought you were dead and suddenly you're not because NB self-healing can be crazy if you do it right.

Shadowbinder7 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

It really could use a decent sized damage buff, 10-30%.

The game has skill standards, it can't just get a 10-30% buff just because Concealed Weapon is better for DPS, especially since half the focus of this skill is survivability and it does that better than any spammable I can think of.

As an instant ranged spammable it has the same damage/cost as these abilities (note: stam instant ranged spammables have -15% cost as do all stamina based skill variants).

• Silver Shards (before the 10% passive)
• Inner Beast
• Force Pulse (3 hits combined)
• Cliff Racer
• Flame Skull
• Crystal Weapon
• Crushing Weapon
• Elemental Weapon
• Ice Frost Reach
• The countless other ranged instant spammables that will come with Scribing in a few months.

The reason NB's think it's terrible is because they're comparing it to one of the best melee spammables in the game, which by definition in ZOS's standards automatically scales at least 10% harder for -15% cost before any other additional effects. I see comparisons to cast time and channel spammables as well like Snipe or Flurry, both of which also warrant their own damage bonus because they're not instant and/or can be interrupted and/or only focus on damage output vs survivability of this skill.

In my opinion, I think Swallow Soul is just as good as any of these skills, if not better as none of those are even close as a great survival tool. The only reason it may be overshadowed by a skill in its category like Force Pulse, is because FP is cracked right now with how it hits 3 times for 3 different elements and can do some aoe. Status Effects are buffed now, so it's become kind of important.

While I don't think a buff is necessary, if I were to buff it it would be in a roundabout way that isn't just +10-30% damage (which simply can't happen based on standards):

• Guaranteed Status effect application, maybe even a different status effect like Hemorrhaging similar to how Vampires work now. (You can proc 2 status effects with 1 damage source - eg. Overcharged from base skill + Guaranteed Hemorrhage)
• A 10s dot, Cutting Dive and Ice Reach do this. It increases the DPS, while not effecting the burst making it more useful in PVE. This is probably the most likely seeing as the skill already gives a 10s hot, they could go together.
• Add a unique effect which indirectly improves DPS like ult return or a debuff... although, this skill technically already does this by playing off the passives in the line for +8% Magicka when slotted, +2 ult every 4s, and +3% healing done.
• Lower cost or some type of resource return, allowing you to build less into sustain for more damage stats or spend less time on resetting the fight in PVP encounters for more pressure.

They could just reduce the healing a bit and pump up the damage + one of these suggestions

By ZOS's standards they can't "pump up the damage" at all. It's already at the standard. Swallow Soul is also already one of the best ranged spammables in the game, so it really doesn't need any buffs, period, let alone multiple buffs.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Has anyone had any success with this spammable over Concealed Weapon? I know Soulcleaver buffs this by a lot but Concealed casually gives 10% damage to ALL damage so I’m having trouble seeing the use.

Please ZOS to close the gap but not let swallow soul overtake concealed weapon given it has no heal, pleeeeeease consider

Add Hemorrhaging status effect to Swallow Soul