New Mail Timers - ZOS Doesn't Care About Players w/ Health Issues

Kiyakotari · May 6

I'm not going to say "disabled players" here, because there are so many things that can cause these new mail timers to be an issue. For example, in my case, my disability doesn't (overall) conflict with them. However, the ZOS perspective of, "If you plan on being away from the game for an extended period, we recommend taking those personal plans into account when making decisions regarding Guild Trader listings [or presumably other insertable thing here]." Last week I had a cardiac event, and part of it meant that I fell down, I hit my face on a door frame, I broke my nose, I hade to get a CT scan, the whole 9 yards. This is not a particularly rare, albeit an unusual occurrence for me. The new policy that ZOS has set on trader timers has effectively locked myself and people like me out of using the guild trader system, as sellers. If my CTR had come back poorly and I'd had to be admitted, but I'd had a few mill+ items sell? I'm sorry, that's not acceptable to me. I will sell in zone below market rates.

Firstmep · May 6

Kiyakotari wrote: »

I'm not going to say "disabled players" here, because there are so many things that can cause these new mail timers to be an issue. For example, in my case, my disability doesn't (overall) conflict with them. However, the ZOS perspective of, "If you plan on being away from the game for an extended period, we recommend taking those personal plans into account when making decisions regarding Guild Trader listings [or presumably other insertable thing here]." Last week I had a cardiac event, and part of it meant that I fell down, I hit my face on a door frame, I broke my nose, I hade to get a CT scan, the whole 9 yards. This is not a particularly rare, albeit an unusual occurrence for me. The new policy that ZOS has set on trader timers has effectively locked myself and people like me out of using the guild trader system, as sellers. If my CTR had come back poorly and I'd had to be admitted, but I'd had a few mill+ items sell? I'm sorry, that's not acceptable to me. I will sell in zone below market rates.

I hate to be that guy, but what you described represents a very thin minority of players, meanwhile reducing server load by lessening the database strain of built up trades might actually have a positive effect for pretty much everyone.

ESO is a big game with a lot of players, and ZOS can't be expected to perfectly tailor the game to perfectly satisfy every niche need.

BetweenMidgets · May 6

While I agree that ZoS can't cater to every player, clearly they CAN do 30 days for the mail and trader, as it has been this way the last 10 years.

It is not unreasonable to AT LEAST keep the status quo, instead of having a measurably worse system.

Trejgon · May 6

Firstmep wrote: »

I hate to be that guy, but what you described represents a very thin minority of players, meanwhile reducing server load by lessening the database strain of built up trades might actually have a positive effect for pretty much everyone.

Here is a thing: the only way, for doubling of write operations to the database to actually reduce strain, was if more frequent read operations were being done in highly unoptimized and inefficient way.

Basically, the only scenario where I could see this change actually lessening overall load, would be if each time we bring up the trader window, servers were trying to download *whole trader table* to then in-code process it. Otherwise, there is alot of mechanism, specifically invented to solve issue of queries run on huge database to make minimal impact.

Lessening timers, means that periodic write operation (delisting item from trading) happens twice as often, and each timed out delisting will have relisting following.

In such case, even reducing timers, will not be able to fix the issue within longterm duration. It is much more efficient imo to instead tackle the root issue, instead of trying to bandaid the symptoms at the cost of player trading/mailing.

On side note, there is plethora of mmos out there, that run trading system with same or higher load than ESO's guild traders (in terms of active users and amount of items being listed), that do not even have listing timeout at all. Then a number of games where time out is much longer than ESO (3 months instead of 1 for example).

RomanRex · May 6

These same arguments were made when HA builds were nuked. “Disabled” users said they can’t play the game as well with the changes.

At the end of the day, changes are made for everyone. I don’t see your arguments as valid, but even if they were you can’t try to create a game which keeps slim numbers of players happy at the detriment of others.

There is a reason ZOS is making the changes and you cannot expect them to reverse the changes based on your individual needs. You also missed daily log-in rewards, but it’s not as though you should expect those as well because you can’t play for a prolonged period.

doesurmindglow · May 7

I think it's also not a great change for casual players, new players learning the market, or players with significant work/life balance obligations.

But it is potentially deflationary which is something we need, so I guess that's good? I'm less optimistic about server performance promises as I have, in my time, seen an awful lot of those.

I'm not convinced the benefits outweigh the costs. Hope I'm wrong, as it doesn't look like a change they're likely to reverse on.

Aislinna · May 7

Kiyakotari wrote: »

I'm not going to say "disabled players" here, because there are so many things that can cause these new mail timers to be an issue. For example, in my case, my disability doesn't (overall) conflict with them. However, the ZOS perspective of, "If you plan on being away from the game for an extended period, we recommend taking those personal plans into account when making decisions regarding Guild Trader listings [or presumably other insertable thing here]." Last week I had a cardiac event, and part of it meant that I fell down, I hit my face on a door frame, I broke my nose, I hade to get a CT scan, the whole 9 yards. This is not a particularly rare, albeit an unusual occurrence for me. The new policy that ZOS has set on trader timers has effectively locked myself and people like me out of using the guild trader system, as sellers. If my CTR had come back poorly and I'd had to be admitted, but I'd had a few mill+ items sell? I'm sorry, that's not acceptable to me. I will sell in zone below market rates.

How many times in how many years you've been playing ESO have you been unable to log into the game for more then 14 days because of an unplanned real life situation? Vacations and work schedules are planned, which is the original complaints I believe Kevin was referring to.

In the 3 years I've been playing, I've had zero unplanned absences from the game that lasted more then 14 days and that includes actually being hospitalized unexpectedly for a week. Let's get a real feel for how large a problem this is, not just "it could happen", but how often has it actually happened.

FluffyBird · May 7

Firstmep wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

I'm not going to say "disabled players" here, because there are so many things that can cause these new mail timers to be an issue. For example, in my case, my disability doesn't (overall) conflict with them. However, the ZOS perspective of, "If you plan on being away from the game for an extended period, we recommend taking those personal plans into account when making decisions regarding Guild Trader listings [or presumably other insertable thing here]." Last week I had a cardiac event, and part of it meant that I fell down, I hit my face on a door frame, I broke my nose, I hade to get a CT scan, the whole 9 yards. This is not a particularly rare, albeit an unusual occurrence for me. The new policy that ZOS has set on trader timers has effectively locked myself and people like me out of using the guild trader system, as sellers. If my CTR had come back poorly and I'd had to be admitted, but I'd had a few mill+ items sell? I'm sorry, that's not acceptable to me. I will sell in zone below market rates.

I hate to be that guy, but what you described represents a very thin minority of players, meanwhile reducing server load by lessening the database strain of built up trades might actually have a positive effect for pretty much everyone.

ESO is a big game with a lot of players, and ZOS can't be expected to perfectly tailor the game to perfectly satisfy every niche need.

Why are you sceptical about player's problems, but not about ZOS's claims? As was discussed in other threads: it doesn't look like moving stuff around twice as often would reduce any strain.

Also, "perfectly tailor"? What the flock? Timers were fine for ten years, ZOS decided to change them in a heavily anti-QoL way and you are saying that being inconvenienced by it is "niche"?

Sakiri · May 12

RomanRex wrote: »

These same arguments were made when HA builds were nuked. “Disabled” users said they can’t play the game as well with the changes.

At the end of the day, changes are made for everyone. I don’t see your arguments as valid, but even if they were you can’t try to create a game which keeps slim numbers of players happy at the detriment of others.

There is a reason ZOS is making the changes and you cannot expect them to reverse the changes based on your individual needs. You also missed daily log-in rewards, but it’s not as though you should expect those as well because you can’t play for a prolonged period.

I still put out enough damage on a HA build for every vet trial in the game, as well as most HMs. I won't be getting any trial tris, but I don't care to anyway. My carpal tunnel hates LAs.

That said, I don't see this change fixing anything. They're gonna do whatever they want, but I have a feeling it's a gold sink, not a server load fix.

Varana · May 13

I am constantly amazed by the amount of players who swallow ZOS' claim of "reducing server load" without questioning, even after all these years.

I could understand if they wanted to reduce players using the mail system as additional inventory. I wouldn't agree with it, but that's a reason I would find valid, from their POV. Which is the only actual reason for the change that I could think of.

But server performance? They've sacrificed so much quality of life features and even game systems on that altar, that I don't buy it wholesale any more.

If this change actually has a discernible positive effect on server performance, they should explain that in more detail. Why does it do that, and how will it affect our gameplay? And is the performance gain worth the cost in convenience?

Just claiming "it will do that and will be totally worth it" is just empty talk.

grzes848909 · May 13

Firstmep wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

I'm not going to say "disabled players" here, because there are so many things that can cause these new mail timers to be an issue. For example, in my case, my disability doesn't (overall) conflict with them. However, the ZOS perspective of, "If you plan on being away from the game for an extended period, we recommend taking those personal plans into account when making decisions regarding Guild Trader listings [or presumably other insertable thing here]." Last week I had a cardiac event, and part of it meant that I fell down, I hit my face on a door frame, I broke my nose, I hade to get a CT scan, the whole 9 yards. This is not a particularly rare, albeit an unusual occurrence for me. The new policy that ZOS has set on trader timers has effectively locked myself and people like me out of using the guild trader system, as sellers. If my CTR had come back poorly and I'd had to be admitted, but I'd had a few mill+ items sell? I'm sorry, that's not acceptable to me. I will sell in zone below market rates.

I hate to be that guy, but what you described represents a very thin minority of players, meanwhile reducing server load by lessening the database strain of built up trades might actually have a positive effect for pretty much everyone.

ESO is a big game with a lot of players, and ZOS can't be expected to perfectly tailor the game to perfectly satisfy every niche need.

while you are correct perhaps there could be made a compromise? Perhaps a new system and a gold sink at that would allow to extend that period of time for listings/mail before expiry date by paying extra tax in guild traders. For example, anytime players need to list an item on a guild trader they have to pay a house cut but players could choose between smaller and larger cut, with the larger cut having longer period for listing as well how long the items/gold stay in mail. Players who tend to be away for longer get to chose, game gains a new gold sink and since it would make sense to make the extended time house cut on listed items more expensive than new 14 days period most people would chose the cheaper one anyway. It could be a win win for most people.

Major_Toughness · May 13

Not sure why we need to collect gold from guild sales anyway. Just have it deposit directly into the bank.
Although the technology for that probably doesn't exist.

However if you are having to be administered to hospital for several weeks at a time, you probably have more concerns than a little bit of virtual currency.

FluffyBird · May 13

Major_Toughness wrote: »

However if you are having to be administered to hospital for several weeks at a time, you probably have more concerns than a little bit of virtual currency.

And that is why you would want this "little bit of virtual currency" to be a part of a getaway, not a source of more concerns, however tiny.

Jaraal · May 14

FluffyBird wrote: »

Why are you sceptical about player's problems, but not about ZOS's claims? As was discussed in other threads: it doesn't look like moving stuff around twice as often would reduce any strain.

Yeah, I'm curious how generating three mails in 30 days (14, 14, and 2 days worth of three listings) versus the current one sales or item return mail every 30 days is helping performance. They haven't explained that. But more data generated than there is currently certainly seem counterintuitive.

@ZOS_Kevin can you fill us in on how generating more than twice as many mails as we have now will help performance?

Jaraal · June 24

Varana wrote: »

I am constantly amazed by the amount of players who swallow ZOS' claim of "reducing server load" without questioning, even after all these years.

I could understand if they wanted to reduce players using the mail system as additional inventory. I wouldn't agree with it, but that's a reason I would find valid, from their POV. Which is the only actual reason for the change that I could think of.

But server performance? They've sacrificed so much quality of life features and even game systems on that altar, that I don't buy it wholesale any more.

If this change actually has a discernible positive effect on server performance, they should explain that in more detail. Why does it do that, and how will it affect our gameplay? And is the performance gain worth the cost in convenience?

Just claiming "it will do that and will be totally worth it" is just empty talk.

So now that the old 30 day timers have expired and everything is on the new, streamlined data saving plan.... has anybody noticed an improvement in performance?

Kelinmiriel · June 24

Nope. The game is running slower than ever. It was a lot faster for a while after I finally got a new computer to replace my 9-year-old laptop, but now it's like stop motion video. I can hardly see what's going on. And the guild market is... Let's just say it's not doing well. (Not only my own trade guild - I've been getting this from other trade guilds also.) I'm sure ZOS can see the stats on that though.

I do hope some of these changes are reconsidered.