Scribing DAMAGE types too limited

Unified_Gaming · April 22

The skills you can create are really fun but don't synergise well with all classes due to limited damage types. I wish the damage options on the primary scripts was this - basically a 'damage' tab that when you select it, it then opens a drop down list/menu or interface where you can then pick any damage type. This change alone would make you have MANY more frost skills i.e. smash, torch bearer etc. Or if you're a necromancer you could have a defile aoe from the destruction staff skill. It would also work better with sets like netch's touch which boost shock skills letting you double down.

Primary script
>Damage (which loads separate menu - see below):
..........Frost
..........Poison
..........Fire
..........Defile
..........ETC.
>Healing
>Shield
etc.

Thoughts?

Stafford197 · April 22

Why can’t Scribed magical-based abilities use any elemental damage type as a default? The biggest lure of Spellcrafting would have been the huge build freedom/fantasy it could provide.

Scribing has the same potential. Something as simple as an ice mage is a huge deal in the Elder Scrolls series, which is partly why Warden has had a million threads opened about making it more of an ice mage. Definitely an odd choice to have such an intricate Scribing system only to not capitalize on this chance to fulfil player’s desires.

Unified_Gaming · April 22

Stafford197 wrote: »

Why can’t Scribed magical-based abilities use any elemental damage type as a default? The biggest lure of Spellcrafting would have been the huge build freedom/fantasy it could provide.

Scribing has the same potential. Something as simple as an ice mage is a huge deal in the Elder Scrolls series, which is partly why Warden has had a million threads opened about making it more of an ice mage. Definitely an odd choice to have such an intricate Scribing system only to not capitalize on this chance to fulfil player’s desires.

I think having all options for the damage type would be really nice as you can make more role playing skills for all content and also optimise and min-max for specific things i.e. use ice skills on warden or use fire damage skills on dragonknight or shock on sorcerer. At present, many of the skills feel limited for some classes as you can't get the damage type you need/want to make your build feel and play how you want.

MashmalloMan · April 22

I think ultimately it came down to work load. There is VFX and SFX you need to consider when designing those extra elements. To this point, I think the fact that we have 3-4 options per grimoire is a nice starting point.

I believe Skinny said he brought this up in the preview build and a dev said something like "we have to start somewhere".

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

It's probably too late now, but I wish they did this:

Bow = Fire because of OG volley being fire based
Sword and Shield = Frost because frost is the magical equivalent tanking element.
DW = Shock because DW and Shock are DPS based
2H = Magic because 2H and Magic are utility based

Unified_Gaming · April 22

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think ultimately it came down to work load. There is VFX and SFX you need to consider when designing those extra elements. To this point, I think the fact that we have 3-4 options per grimoire is a nice starting point.

I believe Skinny said he brought this up in the preview build and a dev said something like "we have to start somewhere".

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

It's probably too late now, but I wish they did this:
Bow = Fire because of OG volley being fire based

Sword and Shield = Frost because frost is the magical equivalent tanking element.

DW = Shock because DW and Shock are DPS based

2H = Magic because 2H and Magic are utility based

With the damage type - the animations are the same for many skills just recoloured for the elements. I do agree it would add more at this stage - especially the SFX team but I do feel the VFX team could focus more on recolouring animations given all skills have one but again this is additional work.

Overall, I think it is a great start but at the same time, they're selling this system as: "Play how you want!" when in reality it doesn't allow that for many arch types i.e. ice mage.

I hope this is considered further.

ElderSmitter · April 22

Stafford197 wrote: »

Why can’t Scribed magical-based abilities use any elemental damage type as a default? The biggest lure of Spellcrafting would have been the huge build freedom/fantasy it could provide.

Scribing has the same potential. Something as simple as an ice mage is a huge deal in the Elder Scrolls series, which is partly why Warden has had a million threads opened about making it more of an ice mage. Definitely an odd choice to have such an intricate Scribing system only to not capitalize on this chance to fulfil player’s desires.

This is the first release. I would imagine ZOS will tinker for years with this.

Alpheu5 · April 22

MashmalloMan wrote: »

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

Staves have been the only magic option for long enough. Just let all of them have access to all the damage types so people can use flaming hammers on their DKs and shocking bows on their Sorcs.

MashmalloMan · April 22

Alpheu5 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

Staves have been the only magic option for long enough. Just let all of them have access to all the damage types so people can use flaming hammers on their DKs and shocking bows on their Sorcs.

Read the rest of my comment, I'm in agreement that it would be nice to have all 8 elements, but it most likely came down to reducing the workload and focusing on introducing the system to the game, thus the minimum of a manageable 3-4 elements per grimoire.

My point was, they had a perfect amount of martial weapons vs magical elements, all of which have at least 1 magical element choice in the current design, yet 3/4 of them deal magic damage, leaving shock and frost, without obvious options there.

They went to the effort of including at least 1 magical element per martial weapon, yet defaulted to magic damage despite there being an obvious opportunity for the other elements like Frost + Sword and Shield, both designed for tanking.

MashmalloMan · April 22

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think ultimately it came down to work load. There is VFX and SFX you need to consider when designing those extra elements. To this point, I think the fact that we have 3-4 options per grimoire is a nice starting point.

I believe Skinny said he brought this up in the preview build and a dev said something like "we have to start somewhere".

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

It's probably too late now, but I wish they did this:
Bow = Fire because of OG volley being fire based

Sword and Shield = Frost because frost is the magical equivalent tanking element.

DW = Shock because DW and Shock are DPS based

2H = Magic because 2H and Magic are utility based

With the damage type - the animations are the same for many skills just recoloured for the elements. I do agree it would add more at this stage - especially the SFX team but I do feel the VFX team could focus more on recolouring animations given all skills have one but again this is additional work.

Overall, I think it is a great start but at the same time, they're selling this system as: "Play how you want!" when in reality it doesn't allow that for many arch types i.e. ice mage.

I hope this is considered further.

Look. I agree. It seems simple enough on the surface, just recolour them, but we're not the devs. Plus, recolouring does not always work, Vault for example releases a cloud of smoke, I can not realistically say that I would believe "blue clouds" to be lightning based, but I can imagine green for poison or red for fire..

There are many indirect consequences of adding more elements we may not even be considering like adding variables which further add to the memory requirements not currently available due to last gen consoles. Maybe 4000 possible variations was the most they were able to make right now.

Maybe it's more simple than that. Maybe they simply set a goal of 4000 possible variations with 3-4 elements, 11 grimoires, and they only just met that goal a few months ago. Had they had the extra time, maybe they would have added the remaining 5-4 elements.

My point is, this is an introduction to scribing like how Companions, TOT, and Mythics were introductions to those mechanics as well. We weren't aware of it, but it stands true. Each of them have been added to each year. We only got 2 companions at release, now we will have 8 by the end of the year. I imagine the same holds true not just for adding more grimoires over time, but more script options.

Unified_Gaming · April 24

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think ultimately it came down to work load. There is VFX and SFX you need to consider when designing those extra elements. To this point, I think the fact that we have 3-4 options per grimoire is a nice starting point.

I believe Skinny said he brought this up in the preview build and a dev said something like "we have to start somewhere".

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

It's probably too late now, but I wish they did this:
Bow = Fire because of OG volley being fire based

Sword and Shield = Frost because frost is the magical equivalent tanking element.

DW = Shock because DW and Shock are DPS based

2H = Magic because 2H and Magic are utility based

With the damage type - the animations are the same for many skills just recoloured for the elements. I do agree it would add more at this stage - especially the SFX team but I do feel the VFX team could focus more on recolouring animations given all skills have one but again this is additional work.

Overall, I think it is a great start but at the same time, they're selling this system as: "Play how you want!" when in reality it doesn't allow that for many arch types i.e. ice mage.

I hope this is considered further.

Look. I agree. It seems simple enough on the surface, just recolour them, but we're not the devs. Plus, recolouring does not always work, Vault for example releases a cloud of smoke, I can not realistically say that I would believe "blue clouds" to be lightning based, but I can imagine green for poison or red for fire..

There are many indirect consequences of adding more elements we may not even be considering like adding variables which further add to the memory requirements not currently available due to last gen consoles. Maybe 4000 possible variations was the most they were able to make right now.

Maybe it's more simple than that. Maybe they simply set a goal of 4000 possible variations with 3-4 elements, 11 grimoires, and they only just met that goal a few months ago. Had they had the extra time, maybe they would have added the remaining 5-4 elements.

My point is, this is an introduction to scribing like how Companions, TOT, and Mythics were introductions to those mechanics as well. We weren't aware of it, but it stands true. Each of them have been added to each year. We only got 2 companions at release, now we will have 8 by the end of the year. I imagine the same holds true not just for adding more grimoires over time, but more script options.

I agree that it would need looking into but it just feels like a missed opportunity. I just really hoped to add more viable ice skills to my magden but sadly I can not.

MashmalloMan · April 25

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think ultimately it came down to work load. There is VFX and SFX you need to consider when designing those extra elements. To this point, I think the fact that we have 3-4 options per grimoire is a nice starting point.

I believe Skinny said he brought this up in the preview build and a dev said something like "we have to start somewhere".

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

It's probably too late now, but I wish they did this:
Bow = Fire because of OG volley being fire based

Sword and Shield = Frost because frost is the magical equivalent tanking element.

DW = Shock because DW and Shock are DPS based

2H = Magic because 2H and Magic are utility based

With the damage type - the animations are the same for many skills just recoloured for the elements. I do agree it would add more at this stage - especially the SFX team but I do feel the VFX team could focus more on recolouring animations given all skills have one but again this is additional work.

Overall, I think it is a great start but at the same time, they're selling this system as: "Play how you want!" when in reality it doesn't allow that for many arch types i.e. ice mage.

I hope this is considered further.

Look. I agree. It seems simple enough on the surface, just recolour them, but we're not the devs. Plus, recolouring does not always work, Vault for example releases a cloud of smoke, I can not realistically say that I would believe "blue clouds" to be lightning based, but I can imagine green for poison or red for fire..

There are many indirect consequences of adding more elements we may not even be considering like adding variables which further add to the memory requirements not currently available due to last gen consoles. Maybe 4000 possible variations was the most they were able to make right now.

Maybe it's more simple than that. Maybe they simply set a goal of 4000 possible variations with 3-4 elements, 11 grimoires, and they only just met that goal a few months ago. Had they had the extra time, maybe they would have added the remaining 5-4 elements.

My point is, this is an introduction to scribing like how Companions, TOT, and Mythics were introductions to those mechanics as well. We weren't aware of it, but it stands true. Each of them have been added to each year. We only got 2 companions at release, now we will have 8 by the end of the year. I imagine the same holds true not just for adding more grimoires over time, but more script options.

I agree that it would need looking into but it just feels like a missed opportunity. I just really hoped to add more viable ice skills to my magden but sadly I can not.

Maybe one day. It is unfortunate. My biggest complaint with what IS there is that they didn't distribute the elements more evenly. I posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant here as well. The list below doesn't include non damage related focuses:

Martial = 16

Physical = 9
Bleed = 3
Poison = 2
Disease = 2

Magical = 18

Magic = 9
Flame = 4
Shock = 3
Frost = 2

They could have developed less physical/magic focuses in place of the other elements. That would be in theory the same amount of effort had it been done from the beginning. Examples:

Destro = Magic -> Poison (stam)
Resto = NEW -> Disease (stam)
1H + Shield = Magic -> Frost (mag)
DW = Magic -> Shock (mag)
Assault = Magic -> Frost (mag)

This would be 4 flame, shock, and frost. 3 Bleed, Poison, and Disease. Something like this anyway. Maybe a bleed stam option for Mages guild, although that one feels out of place.

Unified_Gaming · April 27

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think ultimately it came down to work load. There is VFX and SFX you need to consider when designing those extra elements. To this point, I think the fact that we have 3-4 options per grimoire is a nice starting point.

I believe Skinny said he brought this up in the preview build and a dev said something like "we have to start somewhere".

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

It's probably too late now, but I wish they did this:
Bow = Fire because of OG volley being fire based

Sword and Shield = Frost because frost is the magical equivalent tanking element.

DW = Shock because DW and Shock are DPS based

2H = Magic because 2H and Magic are utility based

With the damage type - the animations are the same for many skills just recoloured for the elements. I do agree it would add more at this stage - especially the SFX team but I do feel the VFX team could focus more on recolouring animations given all skills have one but again this is additional work.

Overall, I think it is a great start but at the same time, they're selling this system as: "Play how you want!" when in reality it doesn't allow that for many arch types i.e. ice mage.

I hope this is considered further.

Look. I agree. It seems simple enough on the surface, just recolour them, but we're not the devs. Plus, recolouring does not always work, Vault for example releases a cloud of smoke, I can not realistically say that I would believe "blue clouds" to be lightning based, but I can imagine green for poison or red for fire..

There are many indirect consequences of adding more elements we may not even be considering like adding variables which further add to the memory requirements not currently available due to last gen consoles. Maybe 4000 possible variations was the most they were able to make right now.

Maybe it's more simple than that. Maybe they simply set a goal of 4000 possible variations with 3-4 elements, 11 grimoires, and they only just met that goal a few months ago. Had they had the extra time, maybe they would have added the remaining 5-4 elements.

My point is, this is an introduction to scribing like how Companions, TOT, and Mythics were introductions to those mechanics as well. We weren't aware of it, but it stands true. Each of them have been added to each year. We only got 2 companions at release, now we will have 8 by the end of the year. I imagine the same holds true not just for adding more grimoires over time, but more script options.

I agree that it would need looking into but it just feels like a missed opportunity. I just really hoped to add more viable ice skills to my magden but sadly I can not.

Maybe one day. It is unfortunate. My biggest complaint with what IS there is that they didn't distribute the elements more evenly. I posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant here as well. The list below doesn't include non damage related focuses:

Martial = 16
Physical = 9

Bleed = 3

Poison = 2

Disease = 2

Magical = 18
Magic = 9

Flame = 4

Shock = 3

Frost = 2

They could have developed less physical/magic focuses in place of the other elements. That would be in theory the same amount of effort had it been done from the beginning. Examples:
Destro = Magic -> Poison (stam)

Resto = NEW -> Disease (stam)

1H + Shield = Magic -> Frost (mag)

DW = Magic -> Shock (mag)

Assault = Magic -> Frost (mag)

This would be 4 flame, shock, and frost. 3 Bleed, Poison, and Disease. Something like this anyway. Maybe a bleed stam option for Mages guild, although that one feels out of place.

100% agree with the over-reliance on physical or magic damage types for these skills. I think they need to review the 'classes' elemental affinity then make sure each skill matches those otherwise it doesn't fit in with the class fantasy.

Sorcerer - shock / magic damage
Nightblade - magic damage / disease
Templar - magic / fire damage
Dragonknight - fire / poison damage
Necromancer - disease / frost / magic
Warden - Frost / Magic / Bleed
Arcanist - Bleed / physical / magic

When you look at it like this, it makes it hard to see how a necromancer can really interact with this system well or say a warden. There are too few skills that would fit within your fantasy / class design just from an elemental perspective let alone whether the skill is actually viable i.e. the dual wield one is not in my opinion for pvp.

Unified_Gaming · May 9

Alpheu5 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

My only gripe with the 3-4 they chose is how Magic damage was placed on DW, Sword and Board, and 2H. 4 martial weapons, 4 magical damage types, why not give each weapon, 1 damage type as an introduction to scribing?

Staves have been the only magic option for long enough. Just let all of them have access to all the damage types so people can use flaming hammers on their DKs and shocking bows on their Sorcs.

I like the idea of having fire on my hammer for sure as a DK or frost on swords as a warden especially since the CGI shows a more melee focused frost warden.