ToT NPC AI - Still Deleting Its Entire Deck in May 2024

disky · May 1

Still doing this, guys. Come on, let's get this fixed.

Personofsecrets · May 1

At least you don't have to wait around for their shuffle animations any more.

Necrotech_Master · May 1

i like it lol, its hilarious

disky · May 1

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like it lol, its hilarious

I just want NPCs, particularly Expert-level NPCs, to pose a legitimate challenge. Behavior like this, and allowing this to become a viable strategy in gameplay, destroys any real sense that you're up against someone who knows what they're doing. And I'm not really interested in the "just play against players then" argument because it's clear that this isn't how the AI is meant to work. It's not impossible to fix and it's a real problem.

El_Borracho · May 2

disky wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like it lol, its hilarious

I just want NPCs, particularly Expert-level NPCs, to pose a legitimate challenge. Behavior like this, and allowing this to become a viable strategy in gameplay, destroys any real sense that you're up against someone who knows what they're doing. And I'm not really interested in the "just play against players then" argument because it's clear that this isn't how the AI is meant to work. It's not impossible to fix and it's a real problem.

There is really no difference between expert NPCs and the others, other than speed of play. You will see the same nonsense with all of them, whether that be ridiculous AI problems that other threads have discussed, their obsession with getting Plunder/Squawking Oratory only to wait FOREVER to draw another card, and yes, the hilarious "eliminate all your cards" strategy.

I love when they do this, especially with the Mora deck when they get Cipher of the Eye. I get 3 coins, they dump a card, we both win. Well, maybe not both of us.

disky · May 2

El_Borracho wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like it lol, its hilarious

I just want NPCs, particularly Expert-level NPCs, to pose a legitimate challenge. Behavior like this, and allowing this to become a viable strategy in gameplay, destroys any real sense that you're up against someone who knows what they're doing. And I'm not really interested in the "just play against players then" argument because it's clear that this isn't how the AI is meant to work. It's not impossible to fix and it's a real problem.

There is really no difference between expert NPCs and the others, other than speed of play.

I've noticed that the lower level NPCs don't use patrons as much, and they do seem to make more mistakes. Or at least they used to. I'm fine with leaving the lower levels prone to making huge mistakes, but when I play an Expert I expect that they're going to be at least as competent as a beginner-level human, and a player would never do something like this.

El_Borracho · May 2

disky wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like it lol, its hilarious

I just want NPCs, particularly Expert-level NPCs, to pose a legitimate challenge. Behavior like this, and allowing this to become a viable strategy in gameplay, destroys any real sense that you're up against someone who knows what they're doing. And I'm not really interested in the "just play against players then" argument because it's clear that this isn't how the AI is meant to work. It's not impossible to fix and it's a real problem.

There is really no difference between expert NPCs and the others, other than speed of play.

I've noticed that the lower level NPCs don't use patrons as much, and they do seem to make more mistakes. Or at least they used to. I'm fine with leaving the lower levels prone to making huge mistakes, but when I play an Expert I expect that they're going to be at least as competent as a beginner-level human, and a player would never do something like this.

It depends. I played a novice and they spammed Rajhin like a troll, flipped Ansei all the time, spammed Orgnum, and hit Almalexia just like the expert does. They also cycle the tavern as much as the expert does. The only noticeable difference is that if you fall asleep at the wheel while they go for a patron win, they will give you several turns to realize it while expert gives you one.

Necrotech_Master · May 2

El_Borracho wrote: »

disky wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like it lol, its hilarious

I just want NPCs, particularly Expert-level NPCs, to pose a legitimate challenge. Behavior like this, and allowing this to become a viable strategy in gameplay, destroys any real sense that you're up against someone who knows what they're doing. And I'm not really interested in the "just play against players then" argument because it's clear that this isn't how the AI is meant to work. It's not impossible to fix and it's a real problem.

There is really no difference between expert NPCs and the others, other than speed of play.

I've noticed that the lower level NPCs don't use patrons as much, and they do seem to make more mistakes. Or at least they used to. I'm fine with leaving the lower levels prone to making huge mistakes, but when I play an Expert I expect that they're going to be at least as competent as a beginner-level human, and a player would never do something like this.

It depends. I played a novice and they spammed Rajhin like a troll, flipped Ansei all the time, spammed Orgnum, and hit Almalexia just like the expert does. They also cycle the tavern as much as the expert does. The only noticeable difference is that if you fall asleep at the wheel while they go for a patron win, they will give you several turns to realize it while expert gives you one.

weird, whenever i play novice i always use rahjin deck, but the novices rarely if ever hit that one

the novices do like spamming red eagle, pelin, crow (as soon as they can), and hlaalu from my experience