Barbed Trap Nerf. Yes. But in combo with the hemorraging. No.

TheDarkRuler · February 6

Barbed Trap has been one of the strongest dps skills in the game for a while. So I agree with the changes that remove the passive Hemorraging proccing over time and requiring you to search for other strong bleeding skills. However since ZOS also decided to change Hemorraging in the week #1 this 1st tick of Hemorraging does not hit as strong and requires constant proccing. So with either of the changes active, I guess it would've been fine but right now we are having a situation where both changes together make this skill ridiculolous to use.

Even with as ZOS said "having to look for other sources of bleed" such as Carve, Fetcherflies and Beast Trap the overall dps is lower than before and can barely justify using it over elemental status effects anymore.

So you either need to reduce the nerf in Beast Trap (lets say having a 10% status proc chance as a compromise instead of 30% (live server) and 3% (week 2 PTS), so change something with the major hemorraging mechanic again.

ESO_Nightingale · February 6

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Barbed Trap has been one of the strongest dps skills in the game for a while. So I agree with the changes that remove the passive Hemorraging proccing over time and requiring you to search for other strong bleeding skills. However since ZOS also decided to change Hemorraging in the week #1 this 1st tick of Hemorraging does not hit as strong and requires constant proccing. So with either of the changes active, I guess it would've been fine but right now we are having a situation where both changes together make this skill ridiculolous to use.

Even with as ZOS said "having to look for other sources of bleed" such as Carve, Fetcherflies and Beast Trap the overall dps is lower than before and can barely justify using it over elemental status effects anymore.

So you either need to reduce the nerf in Beast Trap (lets say having a 10% status proc chance as a compromise instead of 30% (live server) and 3% (week 2 PTS), so change something with the major hemorraging mechanic again.

would also be pretty good to have absorb health be changed to a bleed damage type so it can be procced via weapon enchant.

MashmalloMan · February 6

I think it looks to be in a solid place now for the first time in 10 years. I'm so tired of Beast Trap being the best single target dot in the game, an absolute must have on all builds for pve. Barbed Trap was so beyond busted, that even if you had Minor Force or played range, you had to slot it as most other dots just could not compete for the damage alone.

This is what the dot does by itself.

Immobilize
Minor Force
Upfront free proc of hemorrhaging
+20% upfront damage bonus (This justifies it being melee)

Note: Most dots have 1-3 effects in addition to the standard damage over time. As you can tell from above, the new version of Barbed Trap has 3 effects when you discount the fact that the upfront damage just balances it out as a melee dot vs a ranged one.

Rending Slashes is almost identical to the new Barbed Trap in power budget and similar effects.

30% snare for 4s
Upfront free proc of hemorrhaging
+24% upfront damage bonus

Here are some other similar dots:

Vampires Bane gives 2 projectiles, snares 40% for 4s, and gives Major Savagery/Prophecy.
Degeneration gives Major Sorcery/Prophecy and a reduced cost.
Debilitate gives 40% snare for 4s and 15% proc chance for Overcharged instead of base 3%.

You start to see a common theme here. 2-3 effects.

Debilitate is the closest to your suggestion for a 10% proc chance. Lets consider the Immobilize from Beast Trap and Debilitates snare to be equal. Well Beast Trap also gives Minor Force, and passives for +10% damage, +3 ult gen on kill, and +3% weapon/spell damage for slotting. This is all on a universal skill line anyone can use, so what ends up happening is everyone is forced to use it.

MashmalloMan · February 6

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Barbed Trap has been one of the strongest dps skills in the game for a while. So I agree with the changes that remove the passive Hemorraging proccing over time and requiring you to search for other strong bleeding skills. However since ZOS also decided to change Hemorraging in the week #1 this 1st tick of Hemorraging does not hit as strong and requires constant proccing. So with either of the changes active, I guess it would've been fine but right now we are having a situation where both changes together make this skill ridiculolous to use.

Even with as ZOS said "having to look for other sources of bleed" such as Carve, Fetcherflies and Beast Trap the overall dps is lower than before and can barely justify using it over elemental status effects anymore.

So you either need to reduce the nerf in Beast Trap (lets say having a 10% status proc chance as a compromise instead of 30% (live server) and 3% (week 2 PTS), so change something with the major hemorraging mechanic again.

would also be pretty good to have absorb health be changed to a bleed damage type so it can be procced via weapon enchant.

This is the only change we need for the time being. An enchant on a 4s cooldown with Charged is going to give you practically 100% uptime on at least 1 stack of Hemorrhaging.

We also need more bleed skills in the game, however. Warden has a decent amount and I'd argue they should be the 1 class that excels with Hemorrhaging and Chilled. Not every class needs to be the best with every element.

We also have Scribing coming that will give people the opportunity to customize new skills with Bleed damage if they wanted to chase Hemorrhaging.

Lets not discount the fact that of the 3 dot status effects available, Hemorrhaging is technically the strongest at 3 stacks from full health or execute, that is only possible if building for 3 stacks is somewhat difficult to achieve.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Status effect tick damage:
Burning = 100% (3 ticks over 4s)

Poisoned = 66% (scales up to 2x, 3 ticks over 4s)

Hemorrhaging = 44% (stacking 3x, 3 ticks over 4s)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651733/status-effect-rework-analysis-good-change/p1

At 2 stacks, Hemorrhaging is 88% per tick, slightly behind Burning, slightly above poisoned at full health. Poisoned would only exceed 2 stacks of Hemo damage at about 85% health. At 3 stacks, Hemo will reach 132% which is the maximum potential damage bonus Poisoned offers at 1% health. Burning is just the flat 100% from 0-100% health, no conditions.

Imo, these 3 status effects are balanced extremely well.

Shadowbinder7 · April 16

I’d like to add a very simple message to this thread with a sentiment I am sure is shared with many players

I love eso pve (I like pvp too). I love all the classes and their different skills and play styles. I like the addition of extra skill lines to give them strength and flavour, such as mages guild fighters guild and Psijic order, though I wish the latter had more useful skills for all roles.

But I hate… hate… HATE Barbed trap. The skill should be nerfed further into a worse dot than scalding rune as far as I am concerned, and scalding rune should be given minor force like trap has. Lightweight beast trap should be buffed.

I very much hated the past two years being forced to slot this on my mag dds because it was too much a damage loss to not do so. It’s a boring and flavourless ability.

I hope this ability is nerfed further, the change above I mentioned is implemented and the Psijic order skills are buffed in power and utility, in a future patch. Sooner rather than later ideally, maybe with scribing