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Impulse Morph
I've read a couple of discussions about elemental ring vs pulsar but am still having a hard time deciding. It seems pulsar is great under certain conditions and useless in others whereas elemental ring is ok most of the time. In regard to endgame PVE, which morph provides more bang for the buck? Does the DOT add enough DPS to make it worthwhile or is potential damage from health reduction the bomb? What's your experience?
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Noth✭✭✭✭20% reduction in HP on any mob (including bosses) at endgame is huge. I don't think the dot is worth it at all, particularly for AOE farming where it will just be overwritten constantly (at least with pulsar the 20% reduction hits and stays)0
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Tetujin✭✭✭I read before that the 20% is effectively less on regular enemies because it happens after the actual ability damage is done to the mob, have you found this to be true from using it?0
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Crescent✭✭✭✭It only applies a health debuff to the initial pool. It's not extra damage as the damage from the skill itself is factored in.
For solo farming Pulsar is nice. Pulsar does not work on dungeon bosses.
For prolonged AoE Elemental Ring is superior.0 -
Sirlex✭✭✭20% reduction in HP on any mob (including bosses) at endgame is huge. I don't think the dot is worth it at all, particularly for AOE farming where it will just be overwritten constantly (at least with pulsar the 20% reduction hits and stays)
Pulsar doesn't reduce the max HP of bosses.
Elemental Ring is better in 99% of situations.sir_dunnub17_ESO wrote: »I read before that the 20% is effectively less on regular enemies because it happens after the actual ability damage is done to the mob, have you found this to be true from using it?
This is a fact.
Edited by Sirlex on 3 May 2014 08:040 -
I believe the pulsar reduction is 10% - 13%, not 20%. If the average mob health at level 40 is around 1000 and the ability damage is 145, then the reduction would have no benefit if the damage is applied first. Almost seems like a bug. Is the average mob health to ability damage ratio different at 50+? I suppose pulsar is useful as an opening attack against high health bosses who are not immune to special effects. Does this outweigh the relatively small elemental DOT? Still on the fence.0
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Noth✭✭✭✭20% reduction in HP on any mob (including bosses) at endgame is huge. I don't think the dot is worth it at all, particularly for AOE farming where it will just be overwritten constantly (at least with pulsar the 20% reduction hits and stays)
Pulsar doesn't reduce the max HP of bosses.
Elemental Ring is better in 99% of situations.sir_dunnub17_ESO wrote: »I read before that the 20% is effectively less on regular enemies because it happens after the actual ability damage is done to the mob, have you found this to be true from using it?
This is a fact.
Pulsar has always reduced the health of every boss I've fought, even in group dungeons. Also 20% off is twenty percent removed no matter when the "damage" part is done. It's twenty percent of max HP. It's a rather huge chunk even on regular enemies where they die before the dot can do anywhere near 20% percent damage.
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Noth✭✭✭✭I believe the pulsar reduction is 10% - 13%, not 20%. If the average mob health at level 40 is around 1000 and the ability damage is 145, then the reduction would have no benefit if the damage is applied first. Almost seems like a bug. Is the average mob health to ability damage ratio different at 50+? I suppose pulsar is useful as an opening attack against high health bosses who are not immune to special effects. Does this outweigh the relatively small elemental DOT? Still on the fence.
50+ normal mob health easily scales into the 3000+, some even get into the the 10000+ range for solo bosses. That 20% health reduction is often the difference between life and death.
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It's 13%, not 20%. And it's great for trash pulls (stuff dies faster). Add you engulfing flames armor debuff and your party will love you.
Trash rotation usually goes like Flames, Pulsar, Talons, Pulsar spam.
I don't think it work on dungeon bosses though, it would be too OP, especially on those DPS race ones.0 -
Zanzu✭After taking it I regret nothing, minor additional damage over time vs a flat drop in max health right off the bat. Sure it doesn't work against bosses but which bosses do you actually spam AoE attacks again? They're usually less damage and less efficient than single target skills so odds are against bosses you're just using single target skills then AoE'ing adds. Not to mention a flat cut off of a dungeon boss' max health would make it beyond overpowered.0 -
Pyatra✭✭✭In higher Veteran Ranks, that initial 13% becomes a huge amount considering Mud Crabs are rolling around like the incredible hulk of HP.0
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Yeah, I went with pulsar. At least it has the potential to hit hard. The dot seems rather insignificant considering how little damage it adds. Thanks for all the feedback.0
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ArRashid✭✭✭✭Pulsar is simply better.
It's also MAX health, not CURRENT health, so it reduces flat amount no matter when. You could use it on last 20% and get an instakill when paired with the damage itself I guess. Let's say the mob has 1000 HP. It will take away 130 (/200, dunno what number to believe, I still need 1 rank to morph it) regardless if it was taken from 1000 HP left or 200 HP left..
Elemental Ring COULD be better (for fights taking more than 10 seconds anyway), if the effect wasn't overwriting itself instead of stacking.. or if it was ticking WAY faster... I don't know, every 0.5 sec for 2 sec, instead of over 10 *** seconds (which is enough to overwrite it AT LEAST 4 times)0 -
Tetujin✭✭✭Pulsar is simply better.
It's also MAX health, not CURRENT health, so it reduces flat amount no matter when. You could use it on last 20% and get an instakill when paired with the damage itself I guess. Let's say the mob has 1000 HP. It will take away 130 (/200, dunno what number to believe, I still need 1 rank to morph it) regardless if it was taken from 1000 HP left or 200 HP left..
Elemental Ring COULD be better (for fights taking more than 10 seconds anyway), if the effect wasn't overwriting itself instead of stacking.. or if it was ticking WAY faster... I don't know, every 0.5 sec for 2 sec, instead of over 10 *** seconds (which is enough to overwrite it AT LEAST 4 times)
Yeah, you see this is what confuses me, and why I asked the earlier question.
What you are saying is that it calculates the 13% of max health, then subtracts that from both max health and current health, plus the damage (on the first hit, after which it is just ability damage).
What I had heard, and someone here confirmed, is that it only drops max health, and that this happens only after the initial damage is applied. So for a mob with 1000 health, first you do lets say 100 damage (so you're at 900 now), then the impulse part takes it down to 870 (= 1000 - 13%). So the impulse part just effectively did 30 damage in this example, which of course is just to explain, not to be realistic about the numbers you'd actually see. Then the mob or player cannot heal up to more than 870 from now on until it wears off.
If it is like what you suggest, what would happen when it wears off? Like would it add the 13% back to both max and current health, or just max health, letting you nuke it again?0 -
Drekor✭✭
Most normal mobs in VR levels have between 2000-2500. Which means pulsar is useless since the AoE itself will chunk off more than pulsars health debuff does. Tougher mobs go to about 3500 and pulsar is marginally useful there. Big boss mobs can go to 25k-30k in which case it's nice but those fights you're either in a group that burns it down in 5s anyways or you're cheesing it with CC at which points it's largely irrelevant what you do.I believe the pulsar reduction is 10% - 13%, not 20%. If the average mob health at level 40 is around 1000 and the ability damage is 145, then the reduction would have no benefit if the damage is applied first. Almost seems like a bug. Is the average mob health to ability damage ratio different at 50+? I suppose pulsar is useful as an opening attack against high health bosses who are not immune to special effects. Does this outweigh the relatively small elemental DOT? Still on the fence.
50+ normal mob health easily scales into the 3000+, some even get into the the 10000+ range for solo bosses. That 20% health reduction is often the difference between life and death.
Elemental ring is almost always the better choice.
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SexyVette07✭✭✭I am probably the author of those threads OP is referring to. IMO, and for me, Pulsar ended up being the superior choice. My own testing shows the dot from Elemental Ring keeps rewriting itself so the average damage done was roughly 6% as opposed to Pulsar's 13%. However, each tick has its own chance to crit, so if you have any talents that tie into that, it could be useful. Even in veteran content, Pulsar still kills packs faster than it would take for Elemental Ring to become competitive.
Unless they are immune to the HP reduction, or live for at least 10-12+ seconds, Pulsar is currently better.0 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭Jeez, how hard is it for you guys to understand..
Pulsar's first hit on a target, IN ADDITION TO IT'S OWN DAMAGE, reduces the mob's Health pool by 13%.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage and mob has 1000 HP.
First hit - > Pulsar deals 200 damage, mob is left at 800. Second part hits and takes away 13% of his max health (130). He's left at 670.
Each subsequent hit will only deal the base pulsar damage.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage, mob's max HP is 1000, but you already hit him with 2 heavy staff attacks on the way for 250 each. Mob now has 500 hp.
First Pulsar: deals 200+13%HP damage = 330 - mob now has 170 HP left which means that next pulsar (with 200 dmg only) will kill him anyway.0 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭Even with Kindling passive, which increases all fire damage DoTs by 66%, Elemental Ring is still not worth taking.. at least until they fix the DoTs to stack up rather than overwrite itself.0
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Tetujin✭✭✭Jeez, how hard is it for you guys to understand..
Pulsar's first hit on a target, IN ADDITION TO IT'S OWN DAMAGE, reduces the mob's Health pool by 13%.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage and mob has 1000 HP.
First hit - > Pulsar deals 200 damage, mob is left at 800. Second part hits and takes away 13% of his max health (130). He's left at 670.
Each subsequent hit will only deal the base pulsar damage.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage, mob's max HP is 1000, but you already hit him with 2 heavy staff attacks on the way for 250 each. Mob now has 500 hp.
First Pulsar: deals 200+13%HP damage = 330 - mob now has 170 HP left which means that next pulsar (with 200 dmg only) will kill him anyway.
Okay, thanks. I only pushed back about it because I've seen people say the opposite before. Working that way it seems for sure the better morph.0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I prefer the DoT if you're using a Crit Surge build as a sorc. That's because the dots them selves can also crit which will increase your healing more than Pulsar.2 -
You guys do understand that 13% health is only 13% of the max health pool right?
So on a 100% health enemy Pulsar does 13% damage leaving the mob at 87% health total. Each hit after that will only do the first part of the damage which is the same damage value that Elemental Ring shares. Once a enemy is below 87% health then Pulsar does less damage over time than Elemental Rings because Elemental Rings does the same damage as Pulsar on cast and has damage over time that can crit individually per damage tick.
The larger the health pool the less beneficial Pulsar is because it's only ever effective above 87% enemy health. Once any enemy is below 87% then Elemental Rings will increase in damage over time while Pulsar will only have the flat initial damage value per cast.
Also to go along with what NordJitsu said.. the 13% debuff isn't damage. Even if you crit with Pulsar on the first hit with Critical Surge on you don't get the 13% health returned to you as HP because the health that was taken away was from a debuff. Elemental Rings damage per tick can crit individually meaning you will get small health returns over time while Pulsar will only have a chance per cast.
Edited by darkdruidssb14_ESO on 7 May 2014 19:470 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭With mobs living around me for about 3 seconds flat (not counting elites) so far, I still say 13% max HP is more than that 1 tick of 10 seconds long DoT which will deal about what, 30 dmg? But go ahead, take Elemental Ring.0
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Adernath✭✭✭✭✭It seems like opinions are parted in this matter... Personally I decided for ele ring. Although I have not used it much in the vet zones (currently v3), has anyone tested ele ring and pulsar in the higher vet zones and came to a conclusion?Edited by Adernath on 7 May 2014 22:220 -
There seems to be a disagreement over pulsar mechanics. If ArRashid is correct, then health reduction is not minimized or overwritten by damage. For instance, even if the mob is at 50% health, the initial pulsar blast would still have the immediate effect of further reducing health by 13% of max health in addition to the spell damage. This makes it the clear winner unless you have a build that depends upon dots.Edited by Dharmabum on 8 May 2014 00:300
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Talmet✭✭✭Jeez, how hard is it for you guys to understand..
Pulsar's first hit on a target, IN ADDITION TO IT'S OWN DAMAGE, reduces the mob's Health pool by 13%.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage and mob has 1000 HP.
First hit - > Pulsar deals 200 damage, mob is left at 800. Second part hits and takes away 13% of his max health (130). He's left at 670.
Each subsequent hit will only deal the base pulsar damage.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage, mob's max HP is 1000, but you already hit him with 2 heavy staff attacks on the way for 250 each. Mob now has 500 hp.
First Pulsar: deals 200+13%HP damage = 330 - mob now has 170 HP left which means that next pulsar (with 200 dmg only) will kill him anyway.
Have you tested this? because in a previous post you said that you still had 1 rank to go before you could morph it.
Other people who have tested pulsar, say that what you say here is NOT how it works. I haven't tested it myself, as my main has only ever used a resto staff, my alt that uses destro staff is only lvl 18, so idk who is correct...but according to many other people who say they have tested it extensively.
The debuff ONLY affects max health, NOT current health.
In your example:
Pulsar hits for 200 on a mob that has 1000 HP.
First hit -> Pulsar deals 200 damage, mob has 800/1000 health (showing 80%)
Second part of hit -> Reduces max health by 13%, now the mob has 800/870 health (91.95%)
The pulsar effect did absolutely nothing, unless the target has some method of healing and/or friends who are healers. That isn't to say that pulsar isn't useful, with other numbers the effect could be very useful.
i.e.
Pulsar hits for 150 on a mob that has 3000 HP.
First hit -> Pulsar deals 150 damage, mob has 2850/3000 (95%)
Second part of hit -> Reduces max health by 13%, now the mob has 2610/2610 (100%)
In this case, the debuff effectively dealt 240 damage, for a total of 390 damage, increasing the damage of the first hit by 260%. If this is the way that it works, pulsar's effectiveness would depend on the max health of who you are attacking, your damage & if there are healers around...which sounds likely, as otherwise, one of the morphs would be almost universally better than the other, which seems like bad game design imo.Edited by Talmet on 9 May 2014 06:190 -
Andy22✭✭✭Here are some test results from a player over at tamrielfoundry.com1. An Enemy has 1000 health. Pulsar does 115 damage at your level and applies a 10% health pool reduction debuff. Here’s what happens on your first cast. For an enemy that has 1000 health, you see 115 damage from pulsar to the health bar of the enemy because 10% of 1000 is 100, which is less than the damage you get from the spell. They both apply at the same time, they’re not additive in a single cast (so it’s not 1000 -(1000.*.10) = 900 – 115 Pulsar damage which would = 785. You get the health pool reduction and anything over it in Pulsar damage (in this case, 15 damage).
2. An enemy has 2000 health. Pulsar’s damage is 115 and has a 10% debuff at your level so the 1st cast takes that down 10% instantly to 1800 (becasue 10% of 2000 is greater than 115).
In real life testing in shadowfen:
MOB A (Wasp): HP = 661. 1st cast of Pulsar reduces HP to 550 doing the 111 listed damage of my Pulsar spell because 10% of 661 is 66.5. 66.5 < 111.
MOB B (Kagouti). HP = 1017. 1st cast of Pulsar reduces HP to 906 doing the 111 listed damage of my Pulsar spell because 10% of 1017 is 101.7. 101.7 < 111.
MOB C (Wamasu #1). HP = 3560. 1st cast of Pulsar reduces HP to 3204 doing the 10% debuff damage of 356 rather than the listed damage of my Pulsar spell because 10% of 3560 is 356. 356 > 111.
MOB C (Wamasu #2). *** = 3560. I hit first with a heavy attach from my staff for 150 damage, bringing the target down to 3410 HP (3506 – 150 = 3410), then I hit him with pulsar, which reduced his HP to 3204. If you look above, this is the exact same health pool that Wamasu #1 had after hitting him with the 10% reduction from Pulsar. I know my Pulsar only does 111 damage and my combat log did not register a crit. What happened here is that the < or > check for Pulsar’s damage and the 10% debuff check kicked in even after the first hit, saw that 10% of the STARTING health pool (not the current hit points) was greater than the 111 damage I would be doing with the flame attack of Pulsar, and applied that rather than the lower damage Pulsar hit.
U can read the full conclusion over at tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pulsar-vs-elemental-ring/Edited by Andy22 on 9 May 2014 13:030 -
Drekor✭✭
This is completely incorrect.Jeez, how hard is it for you guys to understand..
Pulsar's first hit on a target, IN ADDITION TO IT'S OWN DAMAGE, reduces the mob's Health pool by 13%.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage and mob has 1000 HP.
First hit - > Pulsar deals 200 damage, mob is left at 800. Second part hits and takes away 13% of his max health (130). He's left at 670.
Each subsequent hit will only deal the base pulsar damage.
Let's say Pulsar hits for 200 damage, mob's max HP is 1000, but you already hit him with 2 heavy staff attacks on the way for 250 each. Mob now has 500 hp.
First Pulsar: deals 200+13%HP damage = 330 - mob now has 170 HP left which means that next pulsar (with 200 dmg only) will kill him anyway.
Your damage is done first, then followed by a reduction of the targets max HP by 13%.
So what happens is pulsar hits for 200 damage against 100HP
First hit > Pulsar deals 200 damage, mob is at 800/1000.
Pulsar reduces max HP from 1000 to 870. Mob is at 800/870
Hit pulsar again > deal 200 damage, mobs is at 600/870
Pulsar refreshes the map hp reduction but otherwise does nothing leaving mob still at 600/870.
The 13% is completely and utterly wasted. And if you are always doing 200 that means any more with less than 1500 HP makes pulsar worthless. I tend to do about 250-350 with it at v10 which points the threshold up to over 2500 which is above normal mobs HP.
Edited by Drekor on 9 May 2014 12:580 -
Nice, so the testing confirms that Pulsar can be utterly useless depending on the HP pool of the enemy and your actual spell damage or if they are getting heals.
Which is exactly what I thought. You will only reduce the mob to 87% health left IF the spell damage from the first hit doesn't bring the enemy to 87% health left at the beginning of the fight. Once the the mob is below 87% health total the debuff is completely useless unless the mob is getting heals that would bring their HP back over 87% total. Then at that point the debuff would kick in and keep them at 87% max health for the duration of the fight. Useful in that situation, but very situational. If your spell damage from the actual cast brings your enemies below 87% then your better off using Elemental Ring that will give more DPS over time as damage ticks.
It also confirms that the debuff isn't calculated as damage so it's useless to Critical Surge builds as the actual spell damage is the only thing that can crit once per cast. So if you are building for Critical Surge you are better served with Elemental Ring as the spell damage on the first hit is the same value as Pulsar and the DoT applied from Elemental Ring can crit per damage tick giving you more HP return than Pulsar per cast.
In PvP I would think Pulsar would be better because players have spell resistance which will reduce your spell damage. So you can at least use the benefit of the debuff more often, but it's still only a benefit until the target is below 87% total HP. Since players can get HP back more easily it will also keep them capped at 87% unless the effect is purged.0 -
Even with critical surge, pulsar can still be very effective under certain circumstances. The extra damage to a high health mob could outweigh the health return from elemental dots. Especially when there are so many other opportunities to critical and/or heal. Not to mention that low health mobs don't last very long to take advantage of the dot crits anyway.0