Elyu wrote: »

So a mythic designed specifically to be useful for newer players...all 5 of the leads for this mythic drop only from muniment chests in the Infinite Archive, which (due to both incoming damage and mechanics) is (while easy for more experienced players) rather difficult for newer players.

Seems an odd choice.
Was rather put out as I was planning on using it for my new characters on a new server (starting from scratch - no CP, no friends to help out with crafted gear or power levelling) - seemed the perfect stopgap until I could unlock some full gear sets....only to find out this mythic is essentially out of my reach.

Suggested change: make all 5 of the leads drop from base-game low level content (+ allow it to be equip-able from level 10 onwards?)

I doubt that this mythic is designed for new players. By the time you get the level to scry/excavate them, you are not a new player anymore.

Number_51 wrote: »

Aren't all Mythics Level 50 CP 160? Can you get low level Mythics?

you cannot, mythics only exist at cp160

if by new players, i think they mean new players as in their first cp160

i personally think its more intended for no proc cyro as a quick "swap out 1 piece of gear" instead of figuring out an entire no proc build

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Aren't all Mythics Level 50 CP 160? Can you get low level Mythics?

you cannot, mythics only exist at cp160

if by new players, i think they mean new players as in their first cp160

i personally think its more intended for no proc cyro as a quick "swap out 1 piece of gear" instead of figuring out an entire no proc build

Interesting.
Which would make it the pve'ers 'simple pvp build'

MafiaCat115 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Aren't all Mythics Level 50 CP 160? Can you get low level Mythics?

you cannot, mythics only exist at cp160

if by new players, i think they mean new players as in their first cp160

i personally think its more intended for no proc cyro as a quick "swap out 1 piece of gear" instead of figuring out an entire no proc build

colossalvoids wrote: »

I don't really see it as a new player intended, as it's power budget is non existent compared to any other option. Maybe if person can't collect a single set it's fine, but unsure what such player would do in RPG game. No CP Cyro is more likely one.

These would work if it wasn't for the fact that the Torc doesn't work in a no proc setting. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654312/torc-of-the-last-ayleid-king

yeah i seen that reported, but theres no reason it should not work, as its bonus is not a proc, its all flat stats unless the "proc" is that it disables all your other gear, but theres been no confirmation if this is intended or not

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MafiaCat115 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Aren't all Mythics Level 50 CP 160? Can you get low level Mythics?

you cannot, mythics only exist at cp160

if by new players, i think they mean new players as in their first cp160

i personally think its more intended for no proc cyro as a quick "swap out 1 piece of gear" instead of figuring out an entire no proc build

colossalvoids wrote: »

I don't really see it as a new player intended, as it's power budget is non existent compared to any other option. Maybe if person can't collect a single set it's fine, but unsure what such player would do in RPG game. No CP Cyro is more likely one.

These would work if it wasn't for the fact that the Torc doesn't work in a no proc setting. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654312/torc-of-the-last-ayleid-king

yeah i seen that reported, but theres no reason it should not work, as its bonus is not a proc, its all flat stats unless the "proc" is that it disables all your other gear, but theres been no confirmation if this is intended or not

It is probably exactly that. Technically, disabling set bonuses is conditional. Since you can effectively wear all non set gear and the mythic is not proccing at all because there is nothing to disable. Or you can wear varying amounts of set gear pieces that all have to be disabled. Or all 1 pieces of sets that require no disabling because there are no set bonuses active on your front bar, but then you bar swap and suddenly have 3 pieces active with a weapon and the mythic is "proccing" to disable those set pieces.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

does oakensoul work in no proc? that one is also basically passive except it disables your bar swap

i dont like playing in no proc because its too frustrating figuring out what works and what doesnt there

Last time I checked I had all the buffs on my bar in no proc with it, so I assume it worked.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

does oakensoul work in no proc? that one is also basically passive except it disables your bar swap

i dont like playing in no proc because its too frustrating figuring out what works and what doesnt there

Last time I checked I had all the buffs on my bar in no proc with it, so I assume it worked.

if thats the case there should be no reason the new mythic doesnt work in no proc unless theres something either bugged or going on behind the scenes that we cant see

Oakensoul has no way to be turned on and off in combat or out of combat without unequipping it. What makes a set considered to be a proc is that it has conditions that can be triggered by doing something. Oakensoul just is. Torc has conditions that can turn on and off depending on how you set your build up.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

does oakensoul work in no proc? that one is also basically passive except it disables your bar swap

i dont like playing in no proc because its too frustrating figuring out what works and what doesnt there

Last time I checked I had all the buffs on my bar in no proc with it, so I assume it worked.

if thats the case there should be no reason the new mythic doesnt work in no proc unless theres something either bugged or going on behind the scenes that we cant see

Oakensoul has no way to be turned on and off in combat or out of combat without unequipping it. What makes a set considered to be a proc is that it has conditions that can be triggered by doing something. Oakensoul just is. Torc has conditions that can turn on and off depending on how you set your build up.

the ayleid king mythic has no conditions

it 1) disables other set bonuses and 2) has its own supplied fixed stats

oakensoul does something similar: 1) disables bar swap, and 2) supplies fixed stats in the form of major/minor buffs

how is disabling bar swap not a "proc" but disabling other set bonuses is? it doesnt make any sense

its already bad enough that pariah set works in no proc cyro, which itself is a proc that gives you scaling armor based on how full your health is

my understanding of no proc cyro is that when new sets are added the devs have to manually go in and add the flag to allow the set to work in no proc, and there have been cases where actual non-proc flat stat sets have been missed and didnt work in no proc (sometimes for years)

Again:

Disable Bar Swap - There is now zero way to even remotely enable bar swap. It is a static shut down of that function. Not a proc. It is permantent until the mythic is removed.

Disable set bonuses - Set bonuses on builds are not static. Likely, the mythic is checking to see if there is a set bonus active and then shutting it off. So, if you have a set piece on your back bar, EVERY time you bar swap, the mythic is needing to proc to shut off the set bonus. Every time. That is a proc.

Oakensoul has zero conditions tied to it outside of equipping the item. Torc has conditions tied to it that can literally trigger when you bar swap.

And I'd argue that Pariah shouldn't work in no proc.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

does oakensoul work in no proc? that one is also basically passive except it disables your bar swap

i dont like playing in no proc because its too frustrating figuring out what works and what doesnt there

Last time I checked I had all the buffs on my bar in no proc with it, so I assume it worked.

if thats the case there should be no reason the new mythic doesnt work in no proc unless theres something either bugged or going on behind the scenes that we cant see

Oakensoul has no way to be turned on and off in combat or out of combat without unequipping it. What makes a set considered to be a proc is that it has conditions that can be triggered by doing something. Oakensoul just is. Torc has conditions that can turn on and off depending on how you set your build up.

the ayleid king mythic has no conditions

it 1) disables other set bonuses and 2) has its own supplied fixed stats

oakensoul does something similar: 1) disables bar swap, and 2) supplies fixed stats in the form of major/minor buffs

how is disabling bar swap not a "proc" but disabling other set bonuses is? it doesnt make any sense

its already bad enough that pariah set works in no proc cyro, which itself is a proc that gives you scaling armor based on how full your health is

my understanding of no proc cyro is that when new sets are added the devs have to manually go in and add the flag to allow the set to work in no proc, and there have been cases where actual non-proc flat stat sets have been missed and didnt work in no proc (sometimes for years)

Again:

Disable Bar Swap - There is now zero way to even remotely enable bar swap. It is a static shut down of that function. Not a proc. It is permantent until the mythic is removed.

Disable set bonuses - Set bonuses on builds are not static. Likely, the mythic is checking to see if there is a set bonus active and then shutting it off. So, if you have a set piece on your back bar, EVERY time you bar swap, the mythic is needing to proc to shut off the set bonus. Every time. That is a proc.

Oakensoul has zero conditions tied to it outside of equipping the item. Torc has conditions tied to it that can literally trigger when you bar swap.

And I'd argue that Pariah shouldn't work in no proc.

if that is truly how they implemented it, that would be really poor way to handle it

but as ive mentioned in other spots, we have not had any confirmation if this is working as intended or not

i dont see disabling sets as a proc, and if it was implemented that way, it would be a horrid use of server resources constantly having to check every time you rezoned or bar swapped

for oaken and bar swap, bar swap is "enabled" by default, and the condition is disabling it, just like how wearing a set is "enabled" the set, and this mythic is disabling it, and unless theres some official statement on this (as neither of us are devs on the game and both speculating), im taking it as a bug that the ayleid mythic does not work in no proc

I'm basing this off of ZOS' explanation in 2021 of how/why they consider things procs.

Oaken is similar to Hundings. The effect is permanent. There is no server side check required to see if your back bar should be disabled or not. It just is once you put on the set. Just like the stats provided by hundings is just active the moment the set is equipped.

Torc is absolutely conditional though. It can either need to suppress set bonus or not need to suppress them depending on how you setup the build. That conditional nature of its effect is right in line with the conditional nature of pretty much every set considered a proc, barring a few outliers.

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

does oakensoul work in no proc? that one is also basically passive except it disables your bar swap

i dont like playing in no proc because its too frustrating figuring out what works and what doesnt there

Last time I checked I had all the buffs on my bar in no proc with it, so I assume it worked.

if thats the case there should be no reason the new mythic doesnt work in no proc unless theres something either bugged or going on behind the scenes that we cant see

Oakensoul has no way to be turned on and off in combat or out of combat without unequipping it. What makes a set considered to be a proc is that it has conditions that can be triggered by doing something. Oakensoul just is. Torc has conditions that can turn on and off depending on how you set your build up.

the ayleid king mythic has no conditions

it 1) disables other set bonuses and 2) has its own supplied fixed stats

oakensoul does something similar: 1) disables bar swap, and 2) supplies fixed stats in the form of major/minor buffs

how is disabling bar swap not a "proc" but disabling other set bonuses is? it doesnt make any sense

its already bad enough that pariah set works in no proc cyro, which itself is a proc that gives you scaling armor based on how full your health is

my understanding of no proc cyro is that when new sets are added the devs have to manually go in and add the flag to allow the set to work in no proc, and there have been cases where actual non-proc flat stat sets have been missed and didnt work in no proc (sometimes for years)

Again:

Disable Bar Swap - There is now zero way to even remotely enable bar swap. It is a static shut down of that function. Not a proc. It is permantent until the mythic is removed.

Disable set bonuses - Set bonuses on builds are not static. Likely, the mythic is checking to see if there is a set bonus active and then shutting it off. So, if you have a set piece on your back bar, EVERY time you bar swap, the mythic is needing to proc to shut off the set bonus. Every time. That is a proc.

Oakensoul has zero conditions tied to it outside of equipping the item. Torc has conditions tied to it that can literally trigger when you bar swap.

And I'd argue that Pariah shouldn't work in no proc.

if that is truly how they implemented it, that would be really poor way to handle it

but as ive mentioned in other spots, we have not had any confirmation if this is working as intended or not

i dont see disabling sets as a proc, and if it was implemented that way, it would be a horrid use of server resources constantly having to check every time you rezoned or bar swapped

for oaken and bar swap, bar swap is "enabled" by default, and the condition is disabling it, just like how wearing a set is "enabled" the set, and this mythic is disabling it, and unless theres some official statement on this (as neither of us are devs on the game and both speculating), im taking it as a bug that the ayleid mythic does not work in no proc

I'm basing this off of ZOS' explanation in 2021 of how/why they consider things procs.

Oaken is similar to Hundings. The effect is permanent. There is no server side check required to see if your back bar should be disabled or not. It just is once you put on the set. Just like the stats provided by hundings is just active the moment the set is equipped.

Torc is absolutely conditional though. It can either need to suppress set bonus or not need to suppress them depending on how you setup the build. That conditional nature of its effect is right in line with the conditional nature of pretty much every set considered a proc, barring a few outliers.

how would the ayleid mythic *not* suppress them? i would think since it says disables all effects that it means that, it 100% suppression from the moment you equip it, it shouldnt matter if you say back barred hundings or not (for example) the effect is never going to be active if you have this equipped, not sure why it would require to recheck that every time you bar swapped, which would be a waste of server resources to have to redo that check every time you bar swapped

edit to add: the no proc cyro is clearly also just using a flag to say if a set is enabled or not, it has nothing to do with the semantics of what is actually considered a proc because its manually set for each set

thats why you get stuff like pariah (clearly a proc that works in no proc), and there have been a history of sets that were not procs that were still disabled in no proc

im basing my theory that this is a bug because the effect of the ayleid mythic itself is purely passive, regardless how its disabling the other sets the actual bonus of the mythic is not a proc and should be enabled to work in the no proc environment

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

does oakensoul work in no proc? that one is also basically passive except it disables your bar swap

i dont like playing in no proc because its too frustrating figuring out what works and what doesnt there

Last time I checked I had all the buffs on my bar in no proc with it, so I assume it worked.

if thats the case there should be no reason the new mythic doesnt work in no proc unless theres something either bugged or going on behind the scenes that we cant see

Oakensoul has no way to be turned on and off in combat or out of combat without unequipping it. What makes a set considered to be a proc is that it has conditions that can be triggered by doing something. Oakensoul just is. Torc has conditions that can turn on and off depending on how you set your build up.

the ayleid king mythic has no conditions

it 1) disables other set bonuses and 2) has its own supplied fixed stats

oakensoul does something similar: 1) disables bar swap, and 2) supplies fixed stats in the form of major/minor buffs

how is disabling bar swap not a "proc" but disabling other set bonuses is? it doesnt make any sense

its already bad enough that pariah set works in no proc cyro, which itself is a proc that gives you scaling armor based on how full your health is

my understanding of no proc cyro is that when new sets are added the devs have to manually go in and add the flag to allow the set to work in no proc, and there have been cases where actual non-proc flat stat sets have been missed and didnt work in no proc (sometimes for years)

Again:

Disable Bar Swap - There is now zero way to even remotely enable bar swap. It is a static shut down of that function. Not a proc. It is permantent until the mythic is removed.

Disable set bonuses - Set bonuses on builds are not static. Likely, the mythic is checking to see if there is a set bonus active and then shutting it off. So, if you have a set piece on your back bar, EVERY time you bar swap, the mythic is needing to proc to shut off the set bonus. Every time. That is a proc.

Oakensoul has zero conditions tied to it outside of equipping the item. Torc has conditions tied to it that can literally trigger when you bar swap.

And I'd argue that Pariah shouldn't work in no proc.

if that is truly how they implemented it, that would be really poor way to handle it

but as ive mentioned in other spots, we have not had any confirmation if this is working as intended or not

i dont see disabling sets as a proc, and if it was implemented that way, it would be a horrid use of server resources constantly having to check every time you rezoned or bar swapped

for oaken and bar swap, bar swap is "enabled" by default, and the condition is disabling it, just like how wearing a set is "enabled" the set, and this mythic is disabling it, and unless theres some official statement on this (as neither of us are devs on the game and both speculating), im taking it as a bug that the ayleid mythic does not work in no proc

I'm basing this off of ZOS' explanation in 2021 of how/why they consider things procs.

Oaken is similar to Hundings. The effect is permanent. There is no server side check required to see if your back bar should be disabled or not. It just is once you put on the set. Just like the stats provided by hundings is just active the moment the set is equipped.

Torc is absolutely conditional though. It can either need to suppress set bonus or not need to suppress them depending on how you setup the build. That conditional nature of its effect is right in line with the conditional nature of pretty much every set considered a proc, barring a few outliers.

how would the ayleid mythic *not* suppress them? i would think since it says disables all effects that it means that, it 100% suppression from the moment you equip it, it shouldnt matter if you say back barred hundings or not (for example) the effect is never going to be active if you have this equipped, not sure why it would require to recheck that every time you bar swapped, which would be a waste of server resources to have to redo that check every time you bar swapped

edit to add: the no proc cyro is clearly also just using a flag to say if a set is enabled or not, it has nothing to do with the semantics of what is actually considered a proc because its manually set for each set

thats why you get stuff like pariah (clearly a proc that works in no proc), and there have been a history of sets that were not procs that were still disabled in no proc

im basing my theory that this is a bug because the effect of the ayleid mythic itself is purely passive, regardless how its disabling the other sets the actual bonus of the mythic is not a proc and should be enabled to work in the no proc environment

It is the same reason that a 5 piece set back barred isn't active on the front bar. The game doesn't consider the set equipped fully until you are on the bar that has the final pieces. So the Torc isn't needing to suppress anything on your back bar until you are actually on your back bar. At which point, it likely has to proc to suppress the set bonus that just became active on bar swap. Then when you swap back, it no longer has to suppress that set bonus, so the proc is no longer actively doing so.

And to be clear, I am not speaking to whether this should be allowed in the no-proc campaign or not. I am only pointing out how this could be considered proc by ZOS's standards on what makes a proc a proc. Which was the original statement raised that I responded to.

it would be stuff like that as part of the reason why nobody likes playing in no proc, partly because its not clearly indicated a set is working or not, and partly because of stuff that makes no sense like this

still i would like something more official on if this is working as intended or not, as it very well could not