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Status Effects are just more procs
NyassaV
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People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
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Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
Why would that not affect PvE? Max stats are by far the worst offensive stat in PvE. Critical chance, critical damage, weapon/spell damage, and penetration are all better in PvE. It is pretty common to have 25k max resource and 5k+ weapon/spell damage in PvE. Going by the rough 10-to-1 max resource to weapon/spell damage ratio, that would cut status effect damage in half or more in PvE.
Perhaps do it through Battle Spirit? "Damage Received Reduced by 50%. Damage Received From Procs (including Status Effects) reduced by 67%." Or some variant like that?4 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Except procs allow players to heal and do damage 1. Without spending resources and 2. While performing other actions. I have a problem with free damage and healing in this game. For some reason, the design team likes to have the game function with an Atari controller; just press one button let your sets do all the work. I don't understand why that's appealing.4 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
Why would that not affect PvE? Max stats are by far the worst offensive stat in PvE. Critical chance, critical damage, weapon/spell damage, and penetration are all better in PvE. It is pretty common to have 25k max resource and 5k+ weapon/spell damage in PvE. Going by the rough 10-to-1 max resource to weapon/spell damage ratio, that would cut status effect damage in half or more in PvE.
Perhaps do it through Battle Spirit? "Damage Received Reduced by 50%. Damage Received From Procs (including Status Effects) reduced by 67%." Or some variant like that?
Because they'll push their max resource higher than PvPers will. The small dmg gain you get from max resources is generally something people will take unless they are trying to solo something.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Except procs allow players to heal and do damage 1. Without spending resources and 2. While performing other actions. I have a problem with free damage and healing in this game. For some reason, the design team likes to have the game function with an Atari controller; just press one button let your sets do all the work. I don't understand why that's appealing.
How do status effects not preform that? I guess they don't heal people.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Except procs allow players to heal and do damage 1. Without spending resources and 2. While performing other actions. I have a problem with free damage and healing in this game. For some reason, the design team likes to have the game function with an Atari controller; just press one button let your sets do all the work. I don't understand why that's appealing.
How do status effects not preform that? I guess they don't heal people.
A lot of status effects requiring building your character to work that way, a lot more actual micromanaging than actual proc sets do. Not to mention there are tons of "super procs" out there that do like 2-3 things at once like Rush of agony and dark convergence.
Status effects can and will be super oppressive next patch I imagine but at least they require players to either build into it and doing their combos as opposed to getting a free strong interaction for next to nothing.
No amount of buffs to status effects will match launch dark convergence's 20k proc damage on a single person and scaling up to 50k+Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade2 -
RandomKodiak✭✭✭✭Warden Bleed build with at least 4 or 5 bleed skills and Bear Ult can build up to about 8-9% Hemorrhage damage but many of the bleed skills aren't that great to start with. Burning wasn't buffed, chilled was cut down and the others are just going to be a nice little dps boost for most classes without being OP at all. The amount as someone else said that you have to lean into one particular type of status effect will be prohibitive on the rest of your damage in PvE. The only class that really would have had a major boost from this change got nerfed pretty bad anyway (sorry Necros). I don't PvP but if it does become an issue there I do hope they can fix it with Battle Spirit. They also have already addressed how OP Hemorrhage was going to be so they are obviously at least watching it so I am not too worried.2 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Based on the Cyrodiil campaign populations, it would appear that most people prefer procs to no procs.
Also, if all random effects are procs, we should get rid of critical hits too. Or maybe everything that affects an enemy with anything other than damage is a proc, in which case we need to get rid of most skills. Where does it end?4 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭There's nothing wrong with procs. There are simply a few that overperform and fill the role of needed DoT pressure in PvP. Overall, procs offer a fair trade off for stats lost to have them in MOST cases; do the math. So while we do want the OP procs handled, there's NO reason to nuke procs overall.
Also, THE main problems in PvP are low TTK and and absurdly high survivability. How can that even make sense? Well have you ever noticed the meta is only ever either a stalemate meta or a burst meta? We NEED battle spirit to give -80% damage, -90% healing/shielding, -50% block mitigation, -50% dodge time. Trust me, this would be the most meaningful PvP change since PvP1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
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StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
One reason it's so empty is because there's no guarantee that sets will work. Even Adept Rider doesn't work there. I prefer to no-proc PVP.
Consider that a lot of people who main PvE are accustomed to proc seats. I don't care about procs in PvE at all so I don't begrudge them. But they are unlikely to come to no-proc PvP.4 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭STOP NERFING PRESSURE DAMAGE
I swear some players actually want this game to be "Street Fighter but with burst heals"PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps3 -
RetPing✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »STOP NERFING PRESSURE DAMAGE
I swear some players actually want this game to be "Street Fighter but with burst heals"
Elemental Susceptibility with buffed status effects. Top ESO PvP in a nutshell.0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »STOP NERFING PRESSURE DAMAGE
I swear some players actually want this game to be "Street Fighter but with burst heals"
Some players just need their crutches.2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »STOP NERFING PRESSURE DAMAGE
I swear some players actually want this game to be "Street Fighter but with burst heals"
Elemental Susceptibility with buffed status effects. Top ESO PvP in a nutshell.
honestly i wish they'd rework this to a unique elemental based debuff from caster that applies the status effect of the type of dmg the staff is. would make it from "take every time" to "take if you're a pure element based dps build"Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 6 March 2024 11:11PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX3 -
Major_Toughness✭✭✭✭People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
Because ZoS's and the players definition of proc sets differ
Most players do not want to get rid of Rallying Cry, Clever Alch, Mechanical Acuity etc.
But want to get rid of Way of Fire, Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales etc.
Players definition of a "proc set" tends to be "anything that does damage for you", not things that increase my stats.Edited by Major_Toughness on 7 March 2024 12:18PC EU > You1 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭Major_Toughness wrote: »People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
Because ZoS's and the players definition of proc sets differ
Most players do not want to get rid of Rallying Cry, Clever Alch, Mechanical Acuity etc.
But want to get rid of Way of Fire, Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales etc.
Players definition of a "proc set" tends to be "anything that does damage for you", not things that increase my stats.
I mean abilities do damage for you tho.... I don't think proc hate makes sense. Procs add build variety WHEN balanced. So we need Balance, not procecide....2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
Because ZoS's and the players definition of proc sets differ
Most players do not want to get rid of Rallying Cry, Clever Alch, Mechanical Acuity etc.
But want to get rid of Way of Fire, Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales etc.
Players definition of a "proc set" tends to be "anything that does damage for you", not things that increase my stats.
I mean abilities do damage for you tho.... I don't think proc hate makes sense. Procs add build variety WHEN balanced. So we need Balance, not procecide....
When I'm stunned, I can't heal. So, I die. That's the way it should be. A player shouldn't be saved by their sets1 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »JerBearESO wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
Because ZoS's and the players definition of proc sets differ
Most players do not want to get rid of Rallying Cry, Clever Alch, Mechanical Acuity etc.
But want to get rid of Way of Fire, Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales etc.
Players definition of a "proc set" tends to be "anything that does damage for you", not things that increase my stats.
I mean abilities do damage for you tho.... I don't think proc hate makes sense. Procs add build variety WHEN balanced. So we need Balance, not procecide....
When I'm stunned, I can't heal. So, I die. That's the way it should be. A player shouldn't be saved by their sets
So you're not keeping your HoTs up? Not using break free? Also arcanist has an ability that heals when they get low, so by this logic does that need removed?
It's silly to try and justify full removal of procs when the math does add up to them being an equal trade off vs stats, in most cases, anyway. Like Almeria gives around 1.5k healing per second but you could instead have maybe 500 w/s damage instead. That would be worth about 5% healing and damage on average, which should represent around the same 1.5k value just split between damage and healing per second but also providing better burst oppurtunity.
Procs are fine. Just OP procs need balanced3 -
SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭proc sets were introduced for the same reason as mythics
a lot of players would love for the primary aim of the dev team to be dynamic combat and balanced classes
draw your own conclusions
i’m with @StarOfElyon , i get no enjoyment from my armor getting kills for me
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StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »JerBearESO wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »People largely aren't a big fan of the proc meta. Buffing status effects just makes it worse given a status effect is basically a proc. Truthfully I'm okay with these changes so long as they address procs in the near future. I recommend tying the dmg procs do to Max stats instead of weapon/spell dmg that way they will be less effective in PvP without effecting PvE that much.
People seem to LOVE proc sets. The no proc instances are empty. Just saying.
There are only so many permutations possible for straight stat sets, unless ZOS goes wild changing the standard values for each line like Shattered Fate.
Because ZoS's and the players definition of proc sets differ
Most players do not want to get rid of Rallying Cry, Clever Alch, Mechanical Acuity etc.
But want to get rid of Way of Fire, Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales etc.
Players definition of a "proc set" tends to be "anything that does damage for you", not things that increase my stats.
I mean abilities do damage for you tho.... I don't think proc hate makes sense. Procs add build variety WHEN balanced. So we need Balance, not procecide....
When I'm stunned, I can't heal. So, I die. That's the way it should be. A player shouldn't be saved by their sets
So you're not keeping your HoTs up? Not using break free? Also arcanist has an ability that heals when they get low, so by this logic does that need removed?
It's silly to try and justify full removal of procs when the math does add up to them being an equal trade off vs stats, in most cases, anyway. Like Almeria gives around 1.5k healing per second but you could instead have maybe 500 w/s damage instead. That would be worth about 5% healing and damage on average, which should represent around the same 1.5k value just split between damage and healing per second but also providing better burst oppurtunity.
Procs are fine. Just OP procs need balanced
"not using break free"
Ha ha that's a good one.
Anyway, hots are supposed to be what gets you through being stunned. You're making my case really. A player should be punished for not doing those things that you listed. But like I said, proc sets can literally save them.Edited by StarOfElyon on 10 March 2024 20:400
