TL;DR: The idea of the buff is fine, but it causes more problems (ranged corpse gen is impossible now, burst playstyle and highest usage rate ability has been deleted, overtuned proc setups inbound) and doesn't address any of the class' issues

Even with a 20% buff, Graverobber is far from "burst". It's still behind a non-harmony Graverobber at launch - they nerfed it that much.

The problem is 3-fold.

1) It deletes the more commonly used Blastbones morph, and the only one that's any good for burst damage.

2) It removes Necro's ability to create corpses at range, forcing you into a melee playstyle and making fights that require range needlessly difficult/impossible to use your corpse consumers.

3) It doesn't fix the actual problems with Necro, while simultaneously being disgustingly over-powered in PvP. Necro will still need to load up their bar with non-class abilities, because despite firmly being "the DoT class" now, they dont even have a single Sticky DoT. The 20% buff doesn't do a whole lot to encourage use of their class abilities when none of their offensive abilities are really worth slotting (especially in PvP). Why throw a cool new buff like that on an ability everyone already uses and not one of the many unused abilities in their kit? What it will encourage is unfun AoE DoT Proc setups that are grossly overtuned.

A better solution to the "complicated rotation" problem wouldve been to throw this Sacrifice buff (at a reduced value) on any other ability Necro has, then taking the lesser used Blastbones morph (blighted) and turning it into an AoE sticky DoT.
- It wouldn't ruin ranged corpse gen
- It wouldn't delete the burst Necro playstyle
- It would actually give you a reason to slot other Necromancer abilities
- It would give Necro the sticky DoT they've desperately needed
- It would fix their "complicated rotation"

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

I prefer the feel of the new skill over blastbones, and I prefer that it doesn't require a target to cast, because for whatever reason, that felt like the clunkiest part of the skill for me. They should make the damage bonus apply to all necro skills though, not just grave lord skills. I also think that blighted blastbones should absorb what was lost in stalking blastbones.

@CameraBeardThePirate why do you think the class needs an aoe sticky dot? They already have 2 aoe dots and the skeletal arcanist/archer, if anything the archer's damage type should be changed to dot to better synergize with the class kit.

Edit: and maybe one morph for archer/arcanist could stick to the target, since they target things kinda weird.

The class needs a sticky DoT because both of its DoTs require a corpse and are stationary AoEs.

In most PvE encounters this is fine, but for any mobile fights, and any PvP encounter, the DoT passive is worthless unless you load up on non-class skills, stripping the class of its flavor.

The other issue (in PvP) is that because the class lacks sorcery/brutality, prophecy/savagery, and a stun, it's nigh impossible to be "the DoT class" without a group providing those buffs for you because you don't have any bar space to fit worthwhile DoTs on your bar.

Again - the idea of the Sacrifice buff is great (tbh it's going to be OP in PvP if it goes through), and the idea of making the blastbones rotation less clunky for people is a noble goal, but the implementation is lacking, and doesn't do anything to fix bar space issues (in fact - it actively makes bar space issues worse because you're losing a damage ability for yet another buff)

Grim_Overlord wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

the skeletal arcanist/archer, if anything the archer's damage type should be changed to dot to better synergize with the class kit.

Edit: and maybe one morph for archer/arcanist could stick to the target, since they target things kinda weird.

I think this is a great idea regarding the damage type being changed to DOT, and the way that they move from target to target would make them kind of unique as a single target DOT. However, their targeting would need to get overhauled to something more akin to Tide King's Gaze, requiring a target for that to work, or have their target tied to whatever the player most recently LA or HA.

To answer the main post though, no you aren't the only one. While I dislike it personally compared to the old Blastbones rotation both in terms of flow and aesthetic, I can sympathize with wanting another way to play Necromancer. However, the outcry against it originates from the way it was implemented, being the lack of hybridization of cost on Blighted and the damage nerf this inadvertently causes for builds that want the old playstyle due to Blighted's lower damage(though honestly having the disease damage instead of flame makes more sense for a Necromancer). If these issues are remedied, then this change likely won't be as opposed even if the buff it gives would be welcomed on another skill.

Yeah having skeletal mage attack you're most recently LA/HA damaged target would be good, or just have it follow regular pet targeting even. And yeah I agree they probably canned the better morph of blastbones. One suggestion I saw, that was pretty cool, was to make blastbones scale off your highest resource, and switch between blighted blastbones and stalking blastbones depending on what it is. It'd be a cool way to explore having 3rd ability morphs.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

I prefer the feel of the new skill over blastbones, and I prefer that it doesn't require a target to cast, because for whatever reason, that felt like the clunkiest part of the skill for me. They should make the damage bonus apply to all necro skills though, not just grave lord skills. I also think that blighted blastbones should absorb what was lost in stalking blastbones.

@CameraBeardThePirate why do you think the class needs an aoe sticky dot? They already have 2 aoe dots and the skeletal arcanist/archer, if anything the archer's damage type should be changed to dot to better synergize with the class kit.

Edit: and maybe one morph for archer/arcanist could stick to the target, since they target things kinda weird.

The class needs a sticky DoT because both of its DoTs require a corpse and are stationary AoEs.

In most PvE encounters this is fine, but for any mobile fights, and any PvP encounter, the DoT passive is worthless unless you load up on non-class skills, stripping the class of its flavor.

The other issue (in PvP) is that because the class lacks sorcery/brutality, prophecy/savagery, and a stun, it's nigh impossible to be "the DoT class" without a group providing those buffs for you because you don't have any bar space to fit worthwhile DoTs on your bar.

If a sticky dot were to be added to blastbones, I'd think they would remove the other effects from it, or else you'd start having a cephaliarch's flail situation, where the skill starts to become overloaded. I see where you're coming from though

When I say add a sticky DoT to Blastbones, I mean convert it from a burst to a sticky DoT. It'd no longer be a Blastbones > Abilityx2 > Blastbones rotation (part of the goal of this change) and they could then add the Sacrifice buff to one of the many unused abilities in the kit.

There's no reason to take the most used ability in the kit and turn it into an ability that buffs.... all the abilities that are garbage in Necro's kit. 20% more damage doesnt even change the usability of things like the Skeletal Archer. The archer/arcanist were nerfed by 50% a year ago - and were unusable even before that nerf. Deleting your main source of damage to buff your mediocre abilities is so strange. It just doesn't make any sense.

^ this.

They can add a 20% buff to Grave Lord abilities but garbage is still garbage. ZOS can spray it and try to make it smell better but it does not.

i think its a little puzzling how they decided it to go this way

im not disliking the idea of it being a general buff to dots, but other problems as mentioned exist, and from my own viewpoint necromancers seriously lack their own selection of class dots to actually make a dot buff worthwhile

the skeletal archer/mage are both not considered dots (but also got nerfed like dots), boneyard would be pretty strong, but its likely losing out on the corpse buff unless an enemy happens to die near the target, and most of the other trees dont have many offensive skills at all

if a necromancer stacked heavily into dots (deadly + class passive + new blastbones buff) thats pretty significant increase to dot dmg

and with the change to status effects, i could see an unusual necro build forming around serpents disdain + deadly and using ele sus

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

I prefer the feel of the new skill over blastbones, and I prefer that it doesn't require a target to cast, because for whatever reason, that felt like the clunkiest part of the skill for me. They should make the damage bonus apply to all necro skills though, not just grave lord skills. I also think that blighted blastbones should absorb what was lost in stalking blastbones.

@CameraBeardThePirate why do you think the class needs an aoe sticky dot? They already have 2 aoe dots and the skeletal arcanist/archer, if anything the archer's damage type should be changed to dot to better synergize with the class kit.

Edit: and maybe one morph for archer/arcanist could stick to the target, since they target things kinda weird.

The class needs a sticky DoT because both of its DoTs require a corpse and are stationary AoEs.

In most PvE encounters this is fine, but for any mobile fights, and any PvP encounter, the DoT passive is worthless unless you load up on non-class skills, stripping the class of its flavor.

The other issue (in PvP) is that because the class lacks sorcery/brutality, prophecy/savagery, and a stun, it's nigh impossible to be "the DoT class" without a group providing those buffs for you because you don't have any bar space to fit worthwhile DoTs on your bar.

Again - the idea of the Sacrifice buff is great (tbh it's going to be OP in PvP if it goes through), and the idea of making the blastbones rotation less clunky for people is a noble goal, but the implementation is lacking, and doesn't do anything to fix bar space issues (in fact - it actively makes bar space issues worse because you're losing a damage ability for yet another buff)

What the class needs is a better use of its corpses, sticky dots can be put on any ability. But the corpse spenders for their damage are all fixed to the ground. Its dumb, they missed the beat so hard by not making the damaging corpse spenders summon throw away undead. The graveyard should consume a set number of corpses and raise them to attack your target.

The change to blastbones would be good if their damaging corpse spenders worked like that, or were just worth using at all. There wouldnt be a clunkiness problem to solve if spending corpses didn't require ground placements that bosses and tanks walk out of all the time. The class was designed horribly from the start, corpse spenders were a good idea but they couldn't do it right and they refuse to see whats a problem with it. Corpses should summon throw away minion that apply debuffs and dots then die and fall apart. I have never seen a worse implementation of a necromancer class in a game then ZoS's.

They should just give the buff to a different skill. Necro has long been neglected and needs the extra damage both in PvE and PvP, and blastbones is a necessary and core part of the class kit. It's a defining skill like if Merciless Resolve for NB got deleted. Necro with the extra damage AND blastbones might actually be a competitive option again.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Been testing it on the PTS and I think it’s very good combined with dot damage and using your grave robber to burst with a 20% damage buff and it’s made my PvE rotation a lot easier.

There were better ways to go about it that I've made my own thread addressing from my own testing. However this change to BB removes a central mechanic and damage for the Necromancer's where it didn't need to be.

Here are some better alternatives.
Necrotic Potency

Target: Area
Duration: 4 seconds

Skill description
Embrace the power of collected souls to bolster your dark arts. For each soul absorbed, increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 50. Sapping the lingering life from fresh corpses, grants you 6 Ultimate while healing 682 Health every 1 second for 4 seconds per additional corpse.

This ability scales off your Max Health. While slotted, your damage taken is reduced by 3%.

Change Notes:
Embrace the power of collected souls to bolster your dark arts. For each soul absorbed, increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 50. The duration of this buff stacks dynamically with each additional soul collected, extending its remaining time to empower your necromantic abilities.

The revamped Necrotic Potency skill introduces a dynamic and engaging mechanic that aligns with the thematic essence of the Necromancer class. By harnessing the power of collected souls, the Necromancer gains a tangible boost to their damage potential, promoting strategic and immersive gameplay.

This change addresses the need for the Necromancer class to have a damage-buffing skill, bringing it up to par with other classes in the game. The dynamic stacking of the buff's duration encourages players to actively collect souls, fostering a sense of mastery and rewarding skilled play. Additionally, the increase in Weapon and Spell Damage per collected soul provides a meaningful and impactful boost to the Necromancer's abilities, enhancing their role in combat scenarios.

Overall, the revised Necrotic Potency skill not only enriches the gameplay experience for Necromancer players but also contributes to a more balanced and engaging class dynamic within the game.

Stalking legion (Stalking Blastbones)

Target: Enemy
Range: 28m
Cost: 2700

Skill description: Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground. After 2.5 seconds, the skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 1600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Up to 3 corpses can be active at a time with only 1.5 seconds cooldown between each skeleton summoning. Creates a corpse on death.

Change Notes:
The reworked skill "Stalking Legion" has undergone significant changes that impact its functionality and potential in combat. Here's a brief explanation of why this change is beneficial and needed:

Improved balance: The reduction in the initial damage dealt by the exploding skeleton from 3600 to 1600 Flame Damage, coupled with the cap on the maximum damage increase, helps to balance the skill's potential burst damage.

Enhanced versatility: Allowing up to three corpses to be active at a time and reducing the cooldown between skeleton summonings to 1.5 seconds significantly enhances the skill's versatility, enabling more strategic and frequent deployment in combat situations.

Strategic depth: With the ability to have multiple explosive skeletons active and in play, players can now employ more strategic and tactical approaches to engagements, adding depth to the skill's gameplay mechanics.

Overall, these changes to "Stalking Legion" aim to promote a more balanced and versatile use of the skill while adding a layer of strategic depth to the Necromancer's toolkit thematically.

Blighted Blastbones

Target: Enemy
Range: 28m
Radius: 6m
Duration: 4 second
Cost: 2295

Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16%.

Creates a corpse on death, causing a putrid area of decay in a 6-meter radius. Enemies within the area suffer from a potent Disease affliction, taking 1500 Disease damage over 4 seconds. Only 2 blighted corpes may persist at at time.

Change Notes:
This reworked ability offers the Necromancer a strategic and thematic AoE damage option, leveraging the theme of decay and disease that is central to the class. By incorporating damage over time effects, the skill aligns with the Necromancer's identity and provides a valuable addition to their arsenal. The rework also addresses the need for more diverse damage over time abilities within the Necromancer's skill set, enhancing gameplay options and synergies for players who prefer this playstyle.

This reworked Blighted Blastbones skill not only adds thematic depth to the Necromancer class but also introduces a valuable AoE damage-over-time option, aligning with the class's identity and providing players with a more diverse and strategic skill set.

Tessitura wrote: »

Its the worst change I have ever seen done to necromancer, considering it was done in isolation. Mage build fantasies are gone, they need to use a much worse stam morph with no fire synergy in it and less damage on top of wasting their stam which they need to not die.

If this was part of a larger rework that added some kind of expendable minions as temp summons we might have something here, but the undead summoner aesthetic is dead, the fantasy of a necromancer is dead, the option to not be a melee is dying fast, and it's ironic because necromancers are suppose to be good at raising the dead but they can't raise the corpse of their own class fantasy. The devs never should have made a necromancer if they didn't want their to be one, and they clearly didn't want necromancers in their game based on what they did to it.

After all the changes and negligence this is my conclusion as well. I just think they do not care for necromancers and they just introduced necro for marketing because they are ware that its a good selling point like in the diablo series. I think it finally clicked and i accepted it after all the frustration and that is the worst part of it.

merpins wrote: »

Remember U35 when Zos decided to revamp the animation of Templar jabs, making a worse animation and a change that absolutely no one was asking for, just to streamline channel ability timers? A change that made the skill so bad that Templars don't use it anymore, Flurry is now better, and now templars have to be carried by the execute phase because of the change?

I'm not saying it's a trend. But Zos changing the favored skill of class to something that is worse, removing that playstyle from the game entirely after 10ish years, has now happened twice. Three times if you include the change to Swallow Soul back in 2017, though that was just a heavy nerf and not a change to the skill visually/

What I dislike about that is that you get the feeling that their changes aren‘t community driven, meaning what the playerbase wants. I get it, it’s their game and they should know best but to have your changes be mostly driven by gathered data, how they most of the time call it, and an effort to generalize their systems like dot‘s etc. does not need to exclude the other. We are playing their game and to take our whishes and hopes for the game serious would be good for them in many ways.

My English is quite limited and I don’t want to give the expression of being a childish stubborn customer trying to force my vision of the game on them. But it’s just sad because I know there are games out there that handle that balancing part of why and when you change something and for what reason a lot better then they do.

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Been testing it on the PTS and I think it’s very good combined with dot damage and using your grave robber to burst with a 20% damage buff and it’s made my PvE rotation a lot easier.

Sounds like you are doing a DK dot rotation with grave-robber synergy?

I was yeah using the 3 stack skulls just like a weaker molten with the grave robber. Skulls are slow but not as slow as warden birds.

I would rather prefer that the best offensive skill the class has is replaced by another offensive skill, something that deals good damage, instead of a % buff for all your other mediocre skills and DoTs.

ZOS wants to give Necros an easier rotation. They also seem to want the class to be DoT focused judging by the stuff that Grave Lord’s Sacrifice buffs. They should imo replace Blighted Blastbones (the lesser used morph) with an AoE Ranged Sticky DoT, here is a quick example:

-Instant Cast, Enemy Targeted, 28m Range, 6m Radius, 10s Duration, XXX Cost (Dynamic based on highest Max Resource would be ideal)
-Spears of bone emerge from the ground under an enemy, impaling it and all nearby foes dealing YYY Magic(?) Damage over 10 seconds. Generates 1 Corpse after hitting an enemy and another one when the effect ends. (Damage would be roughly 2x Blastbones over the 10s, which is actually really high for a DoT)
-Visuals would be spears of bone diagonally emerging from the ground in a circle like pattern (if you have played Necro in Diablo you know what I mean), there is also similar stuff used by other enemies in ESO like Kjalnar Tombskald.

The above would be for the base non-morphed version of the skill, morph effects could be many things like Major Defile, a unique debuff like Engulfing flames, a Snare, changing damage type to Fire/Disease with other bonuses, Immobilize, etc.

I know that you can technically fit 3 BB casts in 10 seconds which would result in more damage, but the idea is also to take some power away from this skill and buff the other Grave Lord skills too.

Urvoth wrote: »

They should just give the buff to a different skill. Necro has long been neglected and needs the extra damage both in PvE and PvP, and blastbones is a necessary and core part of the class kit. It's a defining skill like if Merciless Resolve for NB got deleted. Necro with the extra damage AND blastbones might actually be a competitive option again.

Delete merciless, Buff swallow soul and dots. Ill be fine