Nearly impossibile to win by patron favors now against NPCs

alternatelder · January 6

Since Necrom, I can remember one single time I was able to win by patron favors. Now NPCs will constantly flip the last patron you chose, literally every single turn they flip the last one. They have this unhealthy obsession to the Ansei, and druid king patrons. I went the entire match flip flopping only Ansei back and forth. It has gotten so annoying playing this since they tweaked the NPCs.

Pixiepumpkin · January 6

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

BixenteN7Akantor · January 6

NPC's unhealthy obsession with Orgnum patron ruins any attempt for me to get 2 coins cards

alternatelder · January 6

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

NPC's unhealthy obsession with Orgnum patron ruins any attempt for me to get 2 coins cards

That was the first deck to annoy me, when an NPC chooses that one, I immediately end the match, lol.

valenwood_vegan · January 6

The way they tweaked the NPC's turned me off completely. I used to play against NPC's a few times a week when I had some extra time. Finished the main questline. Liked it as a side activity.

Since they started tweaking the NPC's (particularly the novice), and frustration ensued while trying to get the Necrom music box lead, I have never touched ToT again.

fall0athboy · January 7

alternatelder wrote: »

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

NPC's unhealthy obsession with Orgnum patron ruins any attempt for me to get 2 coins cards

That was the first deck to annoy me, when an NPC chooses that one, I immediately end the match, lol.

Same, lmao. Dueling Master Metrand was an exercise in misery though.

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

The way they tweaked the NPC's turned me off completely. I used to play against NPC's a few times a week when I had some extra time. Finished the main questline. Liked it as a side activity.

Since they started tweaking the NPC's (particularly the novice), and frustration ensued while trying to get the Necrom music box lead, I have never touched ToT again.

I don't know why they felt the need to tweak it.

MidniteOwl1913 · January 8

fall0athboy wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

NPC's unhealthy obsession with Orgnum patron ruins any attempt for me to get 2 coins cards

That was the first deck to annoy me, when an NPC chooses that one, I immediately end the match, lol.

Same, lmao. Dueling Master Metrand was an exercise in misery though.

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

The way they tweaked the NPC's turned me off completely. I used to play against NPC's a few times a week when I had some extra time. Finished the main questline. Liked it as a side activity.

Since they started tweaking the NPC's (particularly the novice), and frustration ensued while trying to get the Necrom music box lead, I have never touched ToT again.

I don't know why they felt the need to tweak it.

I don't know either. It was fine the way it was on release. When they do it is *never* an improvement.

FlopsyPrince · January 8

Another reason for me to continue staying away from a CCG in ESO!

SeaGtGruff · January 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

Well, an obsession with trying to win by flipping all 4 patrons can be detrimental to your own game, so it's probably better to avoid falling into that trap. I mean, if you were playing against another player, would you expect them to let you just flip all of the patrons in your favor without trying to stop you?

As @Pixiepumpkin said, that type of win might require being able to flip 2 or 3 patrons in a single turn. I won that way earlier tonight against an Expert NPC, because they "thoughtfully" left multiple Tithe cards in the Tavern for me to win with.

Pixiepumpkin · January 8

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

Well, an obsession with trying to win by flipping all 4 patrons can be detrimental to your own game, so it's probably better to avoid falling into that trap. I mean, if you were playing against another player, would you expect them to let you just flip all of the patrons in your favor without trying to stop you?

As @Pixiepumpkin said, that type of win might require being able to flip 2 or 3 patrons in a single turn. I won that way earlier tonight against an Expert NPC, because they "thoughtfully" left multiple Tithe cards in the Tavern for me to win with.

Its not an obession, its an observation.

SeaGtGruff · January 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

Well, an obsession with trying to win by flipping all 4 patrons can be detrimental to your own game, so it's probably better to avoid falling into that trap. I mean, if you were playing against another player, would you expect them to let you just flip all of the patrons in your favor without trying to stop you?

As @Pixiepumpkin said, that type of win might require being able to flip 2 or 3 patrons in a single turn. I won that way earlier tonight against an Expert NPC, because they "thoughtfully" left multiple Tithe cards in the Tavern for me to win with.

Its not an obession, its an observation.

I was referring to the OP who kept trying to flip a patron, apparently (from the title of the thread) to try to win by flipping all 4 patrons. I know firsthand that becoming "fixated" on trying to flip a given patron and keep it flipped can cause you to screw up your turns by getting into a "flipping contest" with the NPC when you'd be better off working on a different strategy.

The only reason I quoted your post in my reply was to agree with your observation about flipping multiple patrons in a single turn-- if you happen to get lucky that way, which is by no means assured ("dumb luck," indeed). I wasn't referring to anything you had said as being an "obsession."

Pixiepumpkin · January 8

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

Well, an obsession with trying to win by flipping all 4 patrons can be detrimental to your own game, so it's probably better to avoid falling into that trap. I mean, if you were playing against another player, would you expect them to let you just flip all of the patrons in your favor without trying to stop you?

As @Pixiepumpkin said, that type of win might require being able to flip 2 or 3 patrons in a single turn. I won that way earlier tonight against an Expert NPC, because they "thoughtfully" left multiple Tithe cards in the Tavern for me to win with.

Its not an obession, its an observation.

I was referring to the OP who kept trying to flip a patron, apparently (from the title of the thread) to try to win by flipping all 4 patrons. I know firsthand that becoming "fixated" on trying to flip a given patron and keep it flipped can cause you to screw up your turns by getting into a "flipping contest" with the NPC when you'd be better off working on a different strategy.

The only reason I quoted your post in my reply was to agree with your observation about flipping multiple patrons in a single turn-- if you happen to get lucky that way, which is by no means assured ("dumb luck," indeed). I wasn't referring to anything you had said as being an "obsession."

I did not feel the OP had an obsession with flipping, but rather an observation. The fact that they mentioned the NPC having an obsession with turning patrons means they are paying attention/observing this issue.

And I have seen the same. That is what I meant to say.

SeaGtGruff · January 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

Well, an obsession with trying to win by flipping all 4 patrons can be detrimental to your own game, so it's probably better to avoid falling into that trap. I mean, if you were playing against another player, would you expect them to let you just flip all of the patrons in your favor without trying to stop you?

As @Pixiepumpkin said, that type of win might require being able to flip 2 or 3 patrons in a single turn. I won that way earlier tonight against an Expert NPC, because they "thoughtfully" left multiple Tithe cards in the Tavern for me to win with.

Its not an obession, its an observation.

I was referring to the OP who kept trying to flip a patron, apparently (from the title of the thread) to try to win by flipping all 4 patrons. I know firsthand that becoming "fixated" on trying to flip a given patron and keep it flipped can cause you to screw up your turns by getting into a "flipping contest" with the NPC when you'd be better off working on a different strategy.

The only reason I quoted your post in my reply was to agree with your observation about flipping multiple patrons in a single turn-- if you happen to get lucky that way, which is by no means assured ("dumb luck," indeed). I wasn't referring to anything you had said as being an "obsession."

I did not feel the OP had an obsession with flipping, but rather an observation. The fact that they mentioned the NPC having an obsession with turning patrons means they are paying attention/observing this issue.

And I have seen the same. That is what I meant to say.

What I meant by "obsession" is being fixated on trying to get the last flip-- win the flipping contest. I mean, if you flip a patron and the NPC flips it back, it's usually counterproductive to keep spending additional moves on trying to flip it back to you-- you need to know when to throw in the towel. It's something I can relate to, because I've fallen into that trap, too. But unless there are multiple Tithes you can use to flip multiple patrons at once, going for a patron win is generally a losing strategy.

FrancisCrawford · January 8

Some patron flips can actually hurt you, like Mora or Druid King.

So if the NPC is flipping those, the most comfortable way for me to avoid a patron loss is often to keep flipping Hunding.

Pixiepumpkin · January 8

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Yep. I have seen the same. Its not impossible, but it requires dumb luck and the ability to flip 3 and sometimes 2 patrons in a turn.

Well, an obsession with trying to win by flipping all 4 patrons can be detrimental to your own game, so it's probably better to avoid falling into that trap. I mean, if you were playing against another player, would you expect them to let you just flip all of the patrons in your favor without trying to stop you?

As @Pixiepumpkin said, that type of win might require being able to flip 2 or 3 patrons in a single turn. I won that way earlier tonight against an Expert NPC, because they "thoughtfully" left multiple Tithe cards in the Tavern for me to win with.

Its not an obession, its an observation.

I was referring to the OP who kept trying to flip a patron, apparently (from the title of the thread) to try to win by flipping all 4 patrons. I know firsthand that becoming "fixated" on trying to flip a given patron and keep it flipped can cause you to screw up your turns by getting into a "flipping contest" with the NPC when you'd be better off working on a different strategy.

The only reason I quoted your post in my reply was to agree with your observation about flipping multiple patrons in a single turn-- if you happen to get lucky that way, which is by no means assured ("dumb luck," indeed). I wasn't referring to anything you had said as being an "obsession."

I did not feel the OP had an obsession with flipping, but rather an observation. The fact that they mentioned the NPC having an obsession with turning patrons means they are paying attention/observing this issue.

And I have seen the same. That is what I meant to say.

What I meant by "obsession" is being fixated on trying to get the last flip-- win the flipping contest. I mean, if you flip a patron and the NPC flips it back, it's usually counterproductive to keep spending additional moves on trying to flip it back to you-- you need to know when to throw in the towel. It's something I can relate to, because I've fallen into that trap, too. But unless there are multiple Tithes you can use to flip multiple patrons at once, going for a patron win is generally a losing strategy.

I fully understand this, but in the context of the OP's post the issue here is not strategy "being fixated on flipping" but rather the observation that the changes the devs made to how NPC's play regarding patrons is "annoying" as the OP put it.

And I agree. Because the NPC plays with predictable behavior in this regard. Its a bad change and needs looking into, which is why I imagine the OP made the post in the first place.

El_Borracho · January 8

alternatelder wrote: »

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

NPC's unhealthy obsession with Orgnum patron ruins any attempt for me to get 2 coins cards

That was the first deck to annoy me, when an NPC chooses that one, I immediately end the match, lol.

Funny, I think that is the easiest deck to beat when an NPC chooses it. I take Rahjin and either Hlaalu or Druid. The NPC seems to be programmed to take the power/prestige cards, no matter how small or irrelevant. For instance the Sea Raider card to get one prestige instead of taking something like Luxury Exports that can be used to buy better cards. And they never take Snakeskin Freebooter which crushes them after 2-3 rounds.

It is frustrating because they spam it so early, the amount of prestige they get is negligible. But I can't remember the last time I lost to an NPC that picked Orgnum. Its usually when they pick Pelin and, wouldn't you know it, the card you want is always under that last one you just picked...

El_Borracho · January 8

@alternatelder the Ansei flipping is a constant annoyance, but then again, I constantly flip Ansei too. I've seen it more often now that the NPC will do a Rahjin spam early in the game. I had one today that did it on the first round. Maybe the NPCs are being programmed to troll.

Sheezabeast · January 16

I only play on Proficient so I don't know if all difficulties do this, but any time the Crow deck is used, on the very first turn of the match the NPC always clicks the patron even though they gain nothing from it. It's so stupid but humorous.

Necrotech_Master · January 17

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I only play on Proficient so I don't know if all difficulties do this, but any time the Crow deck is used, on the very first turn of the match the NPC always clicks the patron even though they gain nothing from it. It's so stupid but humorous.

i see them do way worse lol

they will spam stuff like the red eagle patron burning all of their power
they spam druid king, also burning power
they use crow when it doesnt make sense
they use treasury on random cards (even good ones or other writs of coin effectively debilitating their deck or doing nothing)

personally i never really bothered trying to patron win, that method just felt too boring, and never really had a problem getting to 40 prestige, and my matches dont feel like they take too long (usually around 8-15 min depending on how much i want to toy with the npc lol)

Jusey1 · January 31

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

personally i never really bothered trying to patron win, that method just felt too boring

Oh, completely it was. It's just was the meta way of winning against some NPCs for some time. It's was really easy to almost always win by patrons in four turns against AI for a while there and thus making the grind for ToT rewards super quick compare to what it is now.