Magsorc [the classic] I sincerely hope something is planned for update 41 / 42

olsborg · January 24

The classic [pvp]magsorc, one I used to love to play. But these latest years not so much. They lack survivability. Offencive kit is adequate. But as dmg and healing has gone up over the years, the poor conjured ward has stood still in time. It now takes merely one or two global cooldowns to break a magsorcs main defence. Take a look at arcanists shields atm, they are extremely strong, stronger then conjured ward has ever been imo. Magsorcs also lack healing if you dont include the 2 slotted pets that dies all the time. They simply wont help here imo.

What needs to be done? Well the general direction imo is to make sorceror shields great again and give them a way to heal without needing restoration staffs or a undesierable and unreliable pet that eats 2 of your skillslots.

Araneae6537 · January 24

I definitely agree about the shield. I would really like some of the storm and dark magic skills buffed to be more useful and for dark deal to not drop block (come on, not even swapping weapons drops block anymore and that should if anything does).

I’m more neutral on heals — yes, I’d like them, but the devs previous response for sorc was that sorc can’t be good at everything. So if I have to leave something out, that would be it, and rely instead on HoTs or resto. But sorc NEEDS to be good at something besides pet sitter!

I want to shoot lightning at fools!

LadyLavina · January 24

olsborg wrote: »

The classic [pvp]magsorc, one I used to love to play. But these latest years not so much. They lack survivability. Offencive kit is adequate. But as dmg and healing has gone up over the years, the poor conjured ward has stood still in time. It now takes merely one or two global cooldowns to break a magsorcs main defence. Take a look at arcanists shields atm, they are extremely strong, stronger then conjured ward has ever been imo. Magsorcs also lack healing if you dont include the 2 slotted pets that dies all the time. They simply wont help here imo.

What needs to be done? Well the general direction imo is to make sorceror shields great again and give them a way to heal without needing restoration staffs or a undesierable and unreliable pet that eats 2 of your skillslots.

lol revert Empower changes and overload light attack nerfs so magsorc can gank again with 30k bursts

Also let us reflect meteor again.

Kidding of course , as much as I'd love a return to those days.

Magsorc could use a little love though, just not anything broken.

Turtle_Bot · January 24

Been asking for this for well over a year now (ever since U35/36 where sorc got completely over-nerfed). Countless threads with data, tables, screenshots, comparisons, everything and ZOS's response to this was "they see sorc is fine as it is and no changes required", this was right before the tiny U37 buffs that took sorc from completely unplayable to somewhat playable, nothing top tier, but playable.

This attitude from ZOS is despite no-pet/no heavy attack sorc parsing at 20% lower than even necro and warden, so it's not just a PvP complaint either, no-pet/no heavy attack sorc is absolute garbage in PvE too. There's also zero builds from the past 6-8 months for no-pet sorc that parses above 100k either, that's how bad it has gotten.

Sorc is apparently not allowed to have anything but damage according to ZOS, not even utility effects/buffs/debuffs that significantly boost/deal damage.
Might as well create a range-blade or a range-plar at this rate if you want to play that old sorc playstyle because both classes do a no-pet sorc build better than sorc can due to having actual defense and utility, with the exception of exclusively the proc stacking build where the sets are playing the game for the sorc. But, this is apparently what ZOS wants for sorcerer.

P.s. mist form is much better than people say, streak is still better than mist form because it stuns, but mist form is easily better than Ball of Lightning thanks to all the passives and secondary effects it procs/gives, players just need to learn the tricks to utilizing it to its full potential.

Faulgor · January 25

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

This attitude from ZOS is despite no-pet/no heavy attack sorc parsing at 20% lower than even necro and warden, so it's not just a PvP complaint either, no-pet/no heavy attack sorc is absolute garbage in PvE too. There's also zero builds from the past 6-8 months for no-pet sorc that parses above 100k either, that's how bad it has gotten.

Sorc is apparently not allowed to have anything but damage according to ZOS, not even utility effects/buffs/debuffs that significantly boost/deal damage.
Might as well create a range-blade or a range-plar at this rate if you want to play that old sorc playstyle because both classes do a no-pet sorc build better than sorc can due to having actual defense and utility, with the exception of exclusively the proc stacking build where the sets are playing the game for the sorc. But, this is apparently what ZOS wants for sorcerer.

Yet we can't even have a class spamable, unless you enjoy hardcasting frags.
Or a ground DoT that is worth using.

On my non-pet (they just die too easily) arena build for mag Sorc, I slot as much destro skills as class skills - and Aegis only for the while-slotted bonus, which was a nice change. IMO if they want Sorcerers to mainly use weapon skills, that would be an okay concept, but then they should give us some synergies and bonuses for that playstyle. It would kinda fit thematically for TES Sorcerers, as in lore they are "greedy for enchanted items and artifacts".

The class feels so behind in its design, it's almost archaic. In my mind it would need an extensive overhaul, but they've already made clear that won't happen.

Vulkunne · January 25

olsborg wrote: »

The classic [pvp]magsorc, one I used to love to play. But these latest years not so much. They lack survivability. Offencive kit is adequate. But as dmg and healing has gone up over the years, the poor conjured ward has stood still in time. It now takes merely one or two global cooldowns to break a magsorcs main defence. Take a look at arcanists shields atm, they are extremely strong, stronger then conjured ward has ever been imo. Magsorcs also lack healing if you dont include the 2 slotted pets that dies all the time. They simply wont help here imo.

What needs to be done? Well the general direction imo is to make sorceror shields great again and give them a way to heal without needing restoration staffs or a undesierable and unreliable pet that eats 2 of your skillslots.

Completely agree and this is one reason I am still cautious about playing Sorc again in its current form.

LukosCreyden · January 25

I want sorc to be more than two awful pets and frags.
Its supposed to be a spell-slinging class, as described by ZOS themselves.
So, let me be a proper spellcaster and not a daedric monkey-herder!

Pixiepumpkin · January 25

LukosCreyden wrote: »

So, let me be a proper spellcaster and not a daedric monkey-herder!

I thought I was the only one that called the familiar "monkey", lol.

But ya, Sorc does not feel like a sorcerer. I made a Breton sorc awhile back, a (Dark Sorcerer) to base them on the Dark Magic line as a magicka sorc (not lightning)....and man what a failure. He was ok back when Dark Convergence was OP, but since its nerf he has been meh at best.

Compared to a HA sorc, or arcanist, he just fails...no reason to use him in game when I can clear things easier, faster and without grief from my peers on other classes.

Faulgor · January 25

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

So, let me be a proper spellcaster and not a daedric monkey-herder!

I thought I was the only one that called the familiar "monkey", lol.

But ya, Sorc does not feel like a sorcerer. I made a Breton sorc awhile back, a (Dark Sorcerer) to base them on the Dark Magic line as a magicka sorc (not lightning)....and man what a failure. He was ok back when Dark Convergence was OP, but since its nerf he has been meh at best.

Compared to a HA sorc, or arcanist, he just fails...no reason to use him in game when I can clear things easier, faster and without grief from my peers on other classes.

I don't know. What should a Sorcerer feel like?

Previous TES games describe them as follows.

Daggerfall
Sorcerers are quite adept at the manipulation of magic, although they do not generate their own magical energy. Rather, they absorb the energy of spells cast at them, and use this energy to power their own spells.

Morrowind
Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.

Oblivion
Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.

So, spellcasters (especially spells associated with the school of Mysticism) that rely on summons, enchantments, and have a good defense ...
So the use of pets and a good shield for defense, as well as easy access to Minor Resolve, seem appropriate.
Problem is you can't live with pets and you can't live without them. They are terrible to manage and require too much bar space. I would say even Necromancers make more enjoyable Sorcerers in that regard.

And of course, the reliance on enchantments and magic armor and weapons only exists insofar as the class skills suck so much that we have to use weapon skills. IMO Sorcerers should have had a system built around Soul Gem / Soul manipulation rooted in Mysticism to enhance their weapons and armor in some way. The Dark Magic tree seems to venture into that area thematically, but feels entirely abandoned.

Regardless, out of all the base game classes, Sorcerer feels the most aimless to me, followed by Templar (in particular the Dawn's Wrath skill line). DK and NB seem to fulfil their power fantasy for the most part.

ZOS_Volpe · January 25

Hi there,

We have gone ahead and moved this thread to a category we think is more suited for this topic, Combat & Character Mechanics.

Thank you for your understanding.

dk_dunkirk · January 25

I started about 3 years ago maining a sorc, and this is the whole reason I'd class-change him to an arcanist if I could. I know they've said this will never be an option, but I think I'd pay $200 for it. Straight up, no crowns. Heck, maybe even $300. Stamarcs are supposed to parse pretty well, but I just wind up migrating back to 2-pets anyway. It doesn't feel right to go all stabby with a dual wield... sorceror. They've flattened the meta to the point of ruining the flavor of a fantasy RPG.