Is Rallying Cry the end all be all of backbar in PvP?

SmellyUnlimited · January 19

Every build I see these days implements rallying cry on the backbar. DK, NB, Sorc, etc., all seem to have 1 damage set and Rallying Cry (and usually Markyn). Should there really be this kind of powerhouse backbar set that works for EVERYTHING?

I’m building a stam sorc PvP and was considering Clever Alchemist, Balorgh, and Rallying Cry, just because the pen and weapon damage is so darn good. With all the sets PvP has to offer, it seems strange that one set could be considered usable by nearly every build (except probably bombers). Thoughts?

El_Borracho · January 19

No, but its pretty strong and versatile across a lot of classes. I'll use that or Mara's, depending on the build, style of play, and content (Cyrodiil vs. BGs)

Your build idea is pretty good and was a fairly common one before the Way of Fire + Masters Weapons + Vateshran Ice + Maarselok model. There are plenty of alternative damage sets, but that's a personal preference thing. Only suggestion I would make is Balorgh is very good with cheaper ultimates, like NB's Incap or Dawnbreaker. While the ultimate itself is not the best, its the repetitive nature and the proccing of Balorgh you want to go with your rotation. The other school of thought is expensive ultimates grant more weapon/spell damage so the burst damage is higher. Storm Atro is a strong ultimate, but one of the more costly at 200, so while it will take longer to generate ultimate, the end result will be higher damage when you drop the ulti. The obvious trade-off is staying alive and having enough resources still available when you do.

DrNukenstein · January 19

It's true. Rallying cry with Markyn is the best use of 6 slots that you can pick in this game. What do you get for those 6 slots?

2 lines of crit
1 line of mag
up to 500 weapon spell damage
about a line and a half armor
an entire 5 piece bonus worth of crit resist.

In fact, it's one of the few load outs that feels tanky with a light armor bias and it costs practically no damage to use it. It's so stat dense that you can put the rest of your slots into procs and still be able to one shot a lot of people, or you can slot sustain or another defensive set and become invincible while having great damage.

It serves the very important purpose of providing a build option that is tremendously strong compared to Oakensoul builds, which themselves have the huge advantage of not having to manage buffs in PvP while getting buffs they probably wouldn't have room for otherwise.

SmellyUnlimited · January 19

El_Borracho wrote: »

No, but its pretty strong and versatile across a lot of classes. I'll use that or Mara's, depending on the build, style of play, and content (Cyrodiil vs. BGs)

Your build idea is pretty good and was a fairly common one before the Way of Fire + Masters Weapons + Vateshran Ice + Maarselok model. There are plenty of alternative damage sets, but that's a personal preference thing. Only suggestion I would make is Balorgh is very good with cheaper ultimates, like NB's Incap or Dawnbreaker. While the ultimate itself is not the best, its the repetitive nature and the proccing of Balorgh you want to go with your rotation. The other school of thought is expensive ultimates grant more weapon/spell damage so the burst damage is higher. Storm Atro is a strong ultimate, but one of the more costly at 200, so while it will take longer to generate ultimate, the end result will be higher damage when you drop the ulti. The obvious trade-off is staying alive and having enough resources still available when you do.

That was my thought, using it with Dawnbreaker of Smiting (especially with all the vamps in PvP). I hadn’t figured out whether to run vamp or not on this guy, but that’s another thing that seems entirely collective in PvP - Vamp lvl3 for undeath. It seems practically a must have for survivability. My only concern with Clever Alchemist was the limited window I have increased damage, as opposed to say a New Moon build instead.

Oblivion_Protocol · January 19

There are definitely other backbar options to use if you’re tanky enough and have plenty of damage. Wretched Vitality sees use in a lot of builds, and Clever Alchemist does have it’s place.

I think that there are two main reasons for why Rallying Cry sees so much use. One, the proc condition is rock simple. Just slot Resolvong Vigor and you’re pretty much good to go.

Two, Rallying Cry is one of the few procs with a potential 100% uptime. Its duration is 20 seconds, but it fires every 15 seconds. So you can have those state boosts for as long as you want.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 19

Well no, because for any group, there can only be 1 Rallying Cry. That fact alone allows for other options.

Besides, there are a handful of other great backbar sets. Beyond that, setups that use double arena weapons have much better options for their 5 piece.

Cast_El · January 21

I use olorime on my back bar most of the time
#oneOfTheLastTemplar

React · January 21

For solo PVP, almost nothing is going to top rallying cry. It's incredibly stat dense.

I like the idea behind the set; if you're willing to put yourself in situations where you'll very often be at a numbers disadvantage players wise, you can utilize a set that gives a bit more stat density than normal sets. It doesn't compare to having a second player with you to give you a buff set like olorime, PA, phoenix moth, things like cross heals/defensive ults, or class passive buffs like minor brutality/sorcery or maturation, etc.

The problem with the set currently is that it doesn't scale harshly enough for the amount of stats it gives. IMO they should rework the set to be as follows.

Solo = 990 CR, 300 WD/SD
Duo = 660 CR, 200 WD/SD
Trio = 330 CR, 100 WD/SD
4+ group size = 0 bonuses.

Now it can only be utilized by people who will most often be in scenarios where they are actually at a numbers disadvantage, rather than just anybody in group as a random buff set to add in. This also reduces the maximum crit resist by a bit, which I think would be healthy for the game overall as this set does inevitably contribute to the tank meta.

El_Borracho · January 22

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

No, but its pretty strong and versatile across a lot of classes. I'll use that or Mara's, depending on the build, style of play, and content (Cyrodiil vs. BGs)

Your build idea is pretty good and was a fairly common one before the Way of Fire + Masters Weapons + Vateshran Ice + Maarselok model. There are plenty of alternative damage sets, but that's a personal preference thing. Only suggestion I would make is Balorgh is very good with cheaper ultimates, like NB's Incap or Dawnbreaker. While the ultimate itself is not the best, its the repetitive nature and the proccing of Balorgh you want to go with your rotation. The other school of thought is expensive ultimates grant more weapon/spell damage so the burst damage is higher. Storm Atro is a strong ultimate, but one of the more costly at 200, so while it will take longer to generate ultimate, the end result will be higher damage when you drop the ulti. The obvious trade-off is staying alive and having enough resources still available when you do.

That was my thought, using it with Dawnbreaker of Smiting (especially with all the vamps in PvP). I hadn’t figured out whether to run vamp or not on this guy, but that’s another thing that seems entirely collective in PvP - Vamp lvl3 for undeath. It seems practically a must have for survivability. My only concern with Clever Alchemist was the limited window I have increased damage, as opposed to say a New Moon build instead.

Its really a style of play thing. If you are going to burst down your target(s), the bigger ultimate is better. If you are looking for sustained 1vX, I have found the cheaper ulti to be better.

And yeah, go vampire. Undeath is not the game-breaking passive some threads make it out to be, but it has save me more than once.

Lastly, depending on what skills you are using, a crit set like Order's Wrath may be what you are looking for to pair with Rallying Cry. You can build it in heavy, light, medium, and it hits hard if you are doing a crit build, which would go well with a high burst build.

Udrath · January 22

It’s up there. Phoenix moth and crusader are two good back bar sets too. I really like crusader, it gives almost the same damage as clever alchemist if you 4 piece it on the front bar with nearly 100% uptime since it refreshes from the AOE. Phoenix is nice if you don’t run race against time, it’s kinda like an offensive version of rallying cry if you lack minor force.

SmellyUnlimited · January 22

Udrath wrote: »

It’s up there. Phoenix moth and crusader are two good back bar sets too. I really like crusader, it gives almost the same damage as clever alchemist if you 4 piece it on the front bar with nearly 100% uptime since it refreshes from the AOE. Phoenix is nice if you don’t run race against time, it’s kinda like an offensive version of rallying cry if you lack minor force.

That’s a good point on Phoenix Moth, I hadn’t considered that one. I think my problem I’m starting to notice with Rallykng Cry is that I’m typically in groups when I use it, and usually with people who ALSO run Rallying Cry. Are any of us really getting benefit from it with so many running it? I may need to switch to something like Phoenix Moth or another defensive set backbar (although not entirely sure which).

El_Borracho · January 22

@SmellyUnlimited if you are running in a group more than solo, Mara's might be the better choice if you want healing. Or go full defensive back bar. Saw this last week:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/650126/comparing-no-proc-defensive-sets#latest

Some of these sets you do need to go body/jewelry or you will not get the resistances you want on both bars

SmellyUnlimited · January 22

El_Borracho wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited if you are running in a group more than solo, Mara's might be the better choice if you want healing. Or go full defensive back bar. Saw this last week:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/650126/comparing-no-proc-defensive-sets#latest

Some of these sets you do need to go body/jewelry or you will not get the resistances you want on both bars

I like the look of Mara’s Balm, but 30 seconds seems like a long time? I feel like I’d be dead if I had 6 effects on me and this was on cooldown. Cleansing an effect and getting healed sounds strong, but outside of Templar I’m not sure any class I play actually has a cleanse (unless I slot the Support skill).

Mark of the Pariah looks really good, but you’re right, not sure how I can 5 piece body it if I’m running a mythic. Although I could run Clever Alchemist, a monster set, and Pariah. Just would have to drop the mythic.

El_Borracho · January 22

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

@SmellyUnlimited if you are running in a group more than solo, Mara's might be the better choice if you want healing. Or go full defensive back bar. Saw this last week:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/650126/comparing-no-proc-defensive-sets#latest

Some of these sets you do need to go body/jewelry or you will not get the resistances you want on both bars

I like the look of Mara’s Balm, but 30 seconds seems like a long time? I feel like I’d be dead if I had 6 effects on me and this was on cooldown. Cleansing an effect and getting healed sounds strong, but outside of Templar I’m not sure any class I play actually has a cleanse (unless I slot the Support skill).

Mark of the Pariah looks really good, but you’re right, not sure how I can 5 piece body it if I’m running a mythic. Although I could run Clever Alchemist, a monster set, and Pariah. Just would have to drop the mythic.

Try them all out. I do that in non-CP to see what really works and is not just CP. Some work better with some classes and/or builds than others. The cooldown on Mara's is not that bad in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, but can be a hindrance in BGs.

As for running 2 full sets, mythics, and monsters sets, you will have to choose which works better. Balorgh, Maarselok, and Roksa are 3 that I run full monsters sets. If you run a mythic and a full monster set, you obviously won't be able to run 2 full 5 piece sets. So if you ran a full defensive set like Pariah with your damage set, you would have to run 3 damage set body pieces and then get the other 2 slots from your weapons, then choose whether you want a mythic (plus a one piece monster like Stonekeeper, or one piece of Trainee) or a full monster set. Arena weapons also a factor.

There's a lot of combinations, and even though there is a meta, some play better without the meta.