Help with Stamblade

Caecus0 · November 2023

Hello all,

I've been messing around with my Nightblade quite a bit and I'm torn between a few builds and I'm hoping the community may be able to help point me in the right direction. Back before I took a long hiatus from the game, I primarily played Stamblade simply because I like the class concept. Now that I'm back, I notice people are ALOT more tanky. I've adapted my build a bit and while it feels okay, I feel like I could do better. So here are two builds I've been swapping between:

Build 1:
Race: Imperial

Head: Balorgh (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Shoulders: Balorgh (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Chest: Night Mother's Gaze (Heavy; Tri-Stat)
Gloves: Night Mother's Gaze (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Belt: Night Mother's Gaze (Light; Tri-Stat)
Pants: Wretched Vitality (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Boots: Wretched Vitality (Medium; Tri-Stat)

Amulet: Trainee (Infused; Weapon Damage)
Ring 1: Wretched Vitality (Infused; Weapon Damage)
Ring 2: Wild Hunt (Infused; Weapon Damage)

Front Bar:
Main Hand: Night Mother's Gaze (Mace; Nirnhoned; Fire Enchant)
Off hand: Night Mother's Gaze (Mace; Sharpened; Fire Enchant)

Back Bar: Wretched Vitality (Bow; Infused; Weapon Damage Enchant)

Front Bar Abilities:

Surprise Attack
Killer's Blade
Ambush
Relentless Focus
Drain Power

Back Bar Abilities:

Acid Spray (for AoE against stealthies and range pressure)
Vigor
Healthy Offering
Siphoning Strikes
Shadowy Disguise

Why Night Mother's Gaze set? It gives an easy source of Major Breach on a setup that wouldn't otherwise have it. Great Value for a build that can't easily apply it.
Why Wretched Vitality? Sustain, and a lot of it. I really enjoy it.
Why Imperial? No reason in particular; just my original starting race and don't feel like changing it. They seem to be just plain solid.
Why Wild Hunt? It was my first Mythic and I got it so I could run around outside of combat really fast while sneaking. I know I should swap this to Markyn for the armor at some point.

The build is flexible: It has a bit of healing, quite a bit of sustain from Wretched Vitality, and packs a decent punch. It can take a few hits but unfortunately gets easily out-pressured. I know I should swap out Wild Hunt with Markyn Majesty, and I'm working on it. I initially got it because I liked the movement speed when I was stealthing around. I also know if I got Markyn Majesty that I would have to re-trait my rings to be Swift, so I wouldn't really gain damage from, Markyn, just Armor. So I haven't been in a real hurry. Some have suggested swapping Wretched Vitality with Rallying Cry, and after trying it, Wretched Vitality just feels way too nice. I definitely notice it gone. I do notice the durability/damage boost from Rallying Cry but it feels negligible compared to the noticeable sustain loss of Wretched Vitality. I could go Destro Staff instead of Bow, but I REALLY like the Bow. I have also tried different Magicka morphs like Concealed Weapon and Merciless Resolve. I didn't notice that much of a difference in damage with Merciless Resolve ironically, and while Concealed Weapon was nice, it depleted my Magicka way too fast. Surprise Attack seems to put out more raw damage but Concealed seems to buff everything else.

I like the build but it ultimately just feels way too janky. Almost as if it requires a lot of setup to kill anything. It feels like I am spending more time setting up for a kill rather than going for a kill. I mostly do BGs since Cyro is a bit of a lagfest, and I seem to just get hyperfocused before I can reasonably do anything. I have a second build I will be posting right after that seems to solid as well...

Caecus0 · November 2023

Build 2:
Race: Imperial

Head: Trainee (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Shoulders: Wretched Vitality (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Chest: Night Mother's Gaze (Heavy; Tri-Stat)
Gloves: Night Mother's Gaze (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Belt: Night Mother's Gaze (Light; Tri-Stat)
Pants: Night Mother's Gaze (Medium; Tri-Stat)
Boots: Night Mother's Gaze (Medium; Tri-Stat)

Amulet: Wretched Vitality (Infused; Weapon Damage)
Ring 1: Wretched Vitality (Infused; Weapon Damage)
Ring 2: Wild Hunt (Infused; Weapon Damage)

Front Bar: 2h Perfected Vateshran (Mace; Sharpened; Fire)

Back Bar: Wretched Vitality (Bow; Infused; Weapon Damage Enchant)

Front Bar Abilities:

Surprise Attack
Killer's Blade
Ambush
Relentless Focus
Rally

Back Bar Abilities:

Acid Spray (for AoE against stealthies and range pressure)
Vigor
Shade
Siphoning Strikes
Shadowy Disguise

This build in comparison to the last build feels ALOT more fluid. I essentially sacrifice Balorgh for the perfected Vateshran 2h, AKA Frenzied Momentum. I feel like a bigger threat in two ways, but lesser threat in one.

The first way I feel like a bigger threat is that I am not reliant on my Ultimate to get my power spike. Rather, once it gets going, it stays going until I pop the AoE proc from Frenzied Momentum. The proc makes my fully-charged heavies from stealth against off-balance targets feel like a mini incap strike. The second way is that Night Mother's Gaze is active on BOTH bars, meaning I can actually poke people with my Bow. Acid Spray crits sometimes allow me to apply Major Breach to entire team for a few seconds. I crit quite a bit so this actually happens pretty often. I feel like a more active contributor to team fights and can poke better.

Of course the downside is I don't have Balorgh... Meaning that if I were to ever pop my ultimate at 150 or more Ultimate, I'm going to notice it missing. I think we have seen the results of a Ultimate used at 500 with Balorgh. So it appears the tradeoff is more consistency with less potential.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

I don’t have much to add as your build sounds like exactly what I’ve been building, but I’m wondering what HP do you run at? The problem I’ve had with my stamina Nightblade is sticking in a fight, since other classes have so many more skill sets for survivability than NB. I ended up switching to Magicka for the ability to cloak sustain, since I found that was the only way I’ve been able to survive (got the idea from a guy who helped me with my imperial city build). Also, what mundus/food do you run?

One last question for you. Does surprise attack minor breach/major breach from NMG proc Wretched vitality on the backbar when you apply it on the front?

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

my biggest suggestion, drop night mothers gaze, it is frankly not useful because it just applies major breach, which can be easily sourced from other debuffs (if your single target focus NB has a skill that applies major breach for 60 seconds)

it sounds like your trying to build for more of a brawler setup though

you might also be better off using the master 2h and going with the cleave morph brawler for the dmg shield (that scales based on number of people you hit, along with the dmg bonus of the master 2h), this pairs pretty well with vicious death to be a sort of brawler/bomber

i also notice you have very few to no dots, which is where you get a lot of pressure against people using heal over time skills

NB tend to be better at burst because they lack good heal over time skills

@SmellyUnlimited surprise attack guarantees applying minor breach because of the sundered status effect it applies, but because the minor breach is part of the status effect i dont think it procs wretched due to procs procing procs and such

Udrath · December 2023

Any of these builds work. Light attack 5 times with your bow and keep distance with wild hunt, then stealth pick the lowest hp target to attack with incap/spectral bow, repeat. Don’t stick around people you can’t kill

Zabulus · December 2023

Go magblade with a bit of hybride skills.(finisher and aoe in syphon line)
10 times better.
And drop night mother.
Backalley + rally + ballorg + markyn.
30Khp
32k mag
20k stam
3500 impen when rally procs.
Around 6K weap damage.
Of course you'll use a ton of regen potions , but you'll have fun

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Zabulus wrote: »

Go magblade with a bit of hybride skills.(finisher and aoe in syphon line)
10 times better.
And drop night mother.
Backalley + rally + ballorg + markyn.
30Khp
32k mag
20k stam
3500 impen when rally procs.
Around 6K weap damage.
Of course you'll use a ton of regen potions , but you'll have fun

Is there an alternative to Balorghs that can be used if one doesn’t have it yet?

Also, what skill set do you use for this build? Sap essence for AoE or power extraction from siphoning?

OBJnoob · December 2023

He wants you to use Power Extraction. He's talking about stam morphs when he says "be a magblade but use some hybrid skills."

As for a replacement for Balorghs... No, not really. But honestly if the ultimate you're using is Incap then it's pretty cheap anyway giving up Balorghs isn't a huge deal. You will want to find a way to give them major breach though.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

He wants you to use Power Extraction. He's talking about stam morphs when he says "be a magblade but use some hybrid skills."

As for a replacement for Balorghs... No, not really. But honestly if the ultimate you're using is Incap then it's pretty cheap anyway giving up Balorghs isn't a huge deal. You will want to find a way to give them major breach though.

So maybe NMG/Wretched is still a good option, based on what you said. I’m thinking I could run power extraction back bar to proc Wretched, then NMG front, with a piece of trainee and Markyn. I’d love to work in Carve somehow, but with killers blade, assassins will, surprise attack (or concealed weapon?), Rally, and evil hunter, I’m not sure it’ll work. Unless I swap Evil out for carve, albeit losing critical. Maybe backbar power extraction, cloak, vigor, mirage/race against time, and leeching strikes.

Of course I’m open to other feedback. This is just a very basic setup I can figure might be workable.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Also, is sword/board viable backbar for NB? Since I’m basically using all my “support skills” back there.

Caecus0 · December 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

my biggest suggestion, drop night mothers gaze, it is frankly not useful because it just applies major breach, which can be easily sourced from other debuffs (if your single target focus NB has a skill that applies major breach for 60 seconds)

it sounds like your trying to build for more of a brawler setup though

you might also be better off using the master 2h and going with the cleave morph brawler for the dmg shield (that scales based on number of people you hit, along with the dmg bonus of the master 2h), this pairs pretty well with vicious death to be a sort of brawler/bomber

i also notice you have very few to no dots, which is where you get a lot of pressure against people using heal over time skills

NB tend to be better at burst because they lack good heal over time skills

@SmellyUnlimited surprise attack guarantees applying minor breach because of the sundered status effect it applies, but because the minor breach is part of the status effect i dont think it procs wretched due to procs procing procs and such

I did try this, and I ended up taking Night Mother's Gaze for several reasons.

1) Taking Night Mother's Gaze means freeing up a skill slot on my bar that would normally be taken by Assassin's Mark (or more likely, Weakness to the Elements)
2) The Major Breach from NMG applies BEFORE the hit that applies it. Meaning the Major Breach will hit first, then the damage of the hit that applies it. This also means that you can hit someone with an Incap from Stealth (guaranteeing a critical), and the Incap will be affected by Major Breach when it lands. I have tested this very thoroughly.

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

if your running a gank setup, i could see it working, as it saves you the GCD

however if your designing for a brawler and or in big battles, its very likely the enemy will already be debuffed by breach (i like throwing caltrops into a zerg for example, lots of major breach already for anyone who happened to be fighting the enemies there)

also with the prevalence of people running ele sus, which is a 30 sec major breach, its another reason i find it less useful

night mothers way back in the day used to be a lot better when it applied a unique resist debuff before they wanted to standardize on the major/minor system

Caecus0 · December 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if your running a gank setup, i could see it working, as it saves you the GCD

however if your designing for a brawler and or in big battles, its very likely the enemy will already be debuffed by breach (i like throwing caltrops into a zerg for example, lots of major breach already for anyone who happened to be fighting the enemies there)

also with the prevalence of people running ele sus, which is a 30 sec major breach, its another reason i find it less useful

night mothers way back in the day used to be a lot better when it applied a unique resist debuff before they wanted to standardize on the major/minor system

This is definitely why I find myself swapping between NMG and Stuhn's Favor (I don't currently have access to Shattered Fate but that would be my next pick).

However, here it was I notice: I actually see Major Breach fall off of people ALOT. By a surprising amount. The only time I see it consistently remain on enemies is if a DK is running around constantly reapplying Corrosive Breath. There is of course the prevalence of Ele Sus, but I find myself in a lot of situations where it is applicable, such as when I'm attempting to gank someone standing on a flag. In those instances, I have to apply it myself.

I ultimately picked NMG so I don't have to worry about it at all, and it frees up a skills slot that I can use for basically whatever I want.

Zabulus · December 2023

Balorg is a must have.
I use NMG and wretched + markyn / trainee. 3 heavy, 3 light 1 medium armor.
1 swift 2 infused, all +dmg

Stam skills i meant : power extraction & killer blade (exec short range, but damages > impale, and only needs 50% health)
Concealed > the stam version, and you cant sustain the stam version as a magblade anyway.
Frontbar : incap for sustain, stun, +dmg
Backbar : leeching strike to have more stam sustain.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Zabulus wrote: »

Balorg is a must have.
I use NMG and wretched + markyn / trainee. 3 heavy, 3 light 1 medium armor.
1 swift 2 infused, all +dmg

Stam skills i meant : power extraction & killer blade (exec short range, but damages > impale, and only needs 50% health)
Concealed > the stam version, and you cant sustain the stam version as a magblade anyway.
Frontbar : incap for sustain, stun, +dmg
Backbar : leeching strike to have more stam sustain.

That looks like a solid build. I started running NMG and Rallying Cry over the weekend with Markyn/Trainee, but it’s definitely harder to stay healed up with Stamblade (using Rally/Healthy Offering/ Vigor). Is Siphon Soul usable in PvP? Seems like my only damage skill with the Magblade build would be concealed weapon + incap, unless that’s all you need? I also don’t have Balorgh’s yet, so I may need to wait until I get that to be really competitive.

Do you use power extraction backbar to proc Wretched? I didn’t realize Killer’s Blade was better for damage than impale, although I’ve seen Stam builds use Merciless Resolve over the stamina morph for some reason.

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

killers blade was changed awhile ago to be more of a typical execute (scaling dmg to enemies under 50% hp) while impale has a more narrow and fixed dmg boost (flat increase if the enemy is under 25%)

impale has the advantage of being ranged, but it has a slow-ish projectile, and requires landing on an enemy under 25% to do significant dmg

killers blade is melee only, but is much much faster to use, its even faster than executioner from 2h

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

killers blade was changed awhile ago to be more of a typical execute (scaling dmg to enemies under 50% hp) while impale has a more narrow and fixed dmg boost (flat increase if the enemy is under 25%)

impale has the advantage of being ranged, but it has a slow-ish projectile, and requires landing on an enemy under 25% to do significant dmg

killers blade is melee only, but is much much faster to use, its even faster than executioner from 2h

Interesting, I hadn’t realized that. Wow I’ve definitely been relying on old info, as I haven’t been using killer’s blade till 25%.

Caecus0 · December 2023

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Zabulus wrote: »

Balorg is a must have.
I use NMG and wretched + markyn / trainee. 3 heavy, 3 light 1 medium armor.
1 swift 2 infused, all +dmg

Stam skills i meant : power extraction & killer blade (exec short range, but damages > impale, and only needs 50% health)
Concealed > the stam version, and you cant sustain the stam version as a magblade anyway.
Frontbar : incap for sustain, stun, +dmg
Backbar : leeching strike to have more stam sustain.

That looks like a solid build. I started running NMG and Rallying Cry over the weekend with Markyn/Trainee, but it’s definitely harder to stay healed up with Stamblade (using Rally/Healthy Offering/ Vigor). Is Siphon Soul usable in PvP? Seems like my only damage skill with the Magblade build would be concealed weapon + incap, unless that’s all you need? I also don’t have Balorgh’s yet, so I may need to wait until I get that to be really competitive.

Do you use power extraction backbar to proc Wretched? I didn’t realize Killer’s Blade was better for damage than impale, although I’ve seen Stam builds use Merciless Resolve over the stamina morph for some reason.

Yes and No. People say Killer's Blade is more damage than Impale when the reality is more complicated.

Killer's Blade and Impale has a base damage of around half of Surprise Attack. Impale does 330% more damage the moment the target reaches 25% Health. Killer's Blade damage scales linearly based on the target's Health when they go below 50%, up to 400% *more* damage, meaning the skill at it's absolute highest will do 5x more damage. A good way to look at it is the skill's damage will go up by 100% for every 12.5% Health the target is missing below 50%.

If the target is just at 49% of their Health, Killer's Blade does next to no additional Damage. It's not worth using at all there. At 37.5% Health, it will do 100% more damage, being roughly on par with your Spammable. After that is the breakpoint at which Killer's Blade starts out-damaging Surprise Attack or Concealed Weapon. At 25% Health, it does 200% more damage, out-damaging any spammable, but still losing to Impale's 330%. At 12.5% Health, Killer's Blade does 300% more damage... Still losing to Impale by a small amount. Killer's Blade and Impale roughly match in damage at 10%. After that, Killer's Blade does more... But all that extra damage doesn't matter if the enemy would die to a spammable at this point.

Killer's Blade sacrifices ALOT of damage at the 25% Health point (its 200% vs Impale's 330%), with the flip-side being that you can reliably start using it to do more damage than your spammable when the target reaches 33% Health. Also, the Heal is nice.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Interesting. I’m glad someone took the time to parse that data out. Just knowing that will definitely change how I use it in the future.

gariondavey · December 2023

Caecus0 wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Zabulus wrote: »

Balorg is a must have.
I use NMG and wretched + markyn / trainee. 3 heavy, 3 light 1 medium armor.
1 swift 2 infused, all +dmg

Stam skills i meant : power extraction & killer blade (exec short range, but damages > impale, and only needs 50% health)
Concealed > the stam version, and you cant sustain the stam version as a magblade anyway.
Frontbar : incap for sustain, stun, +dmg
Backbar : leeching strike to have more stam sustain.

That looks like a solid build. I started running NMG and Rallying Cry over the weekend with Markyn/Trainee, but it’s definitely harder to stay healed up with Stamblade (using Rally/Healthy Offering/ Vigor). Is Siphon Soul usable in PvP? Seems like my only damage skill with the Magblade build would be concealed weapon + incap, unless that’s all you need? I also don’t have Balorgh’s yet, so I may need to wait until I get that to be really competitive.

Do you use power extraction backbar to proc Wretched? I didn’t realize Killer’s Blade was better for damage than impale, although I’ve seen Stam builds use Merciless Resolve over the stamina morph for some reason.

Yes and No. People say Killer's Blade is more damage than Impale when the reality is more complicated.

Killer's Blade and Impale has a base damage of around half of Surprise Attack. Impale does 330% more damage the moment the target reaches 25% Health. Killer's Blade damage scales linearly based on the target's Health when they go below 50%, up to 400% *more* damage, meaning the skill at it's absolute highest will do 5x more damage. A good way to look at it is the skill's damage will go up by 100% for every 12.5% Health the target is missing below 50%.

If the target is just at 49% of their Health, Killer's Blade does next to no additional Damage. It's not worth using at all there. At 37.5% Health, it will do 100% more damage, being roughly on par with your Spammable. After that is the breakpoint at which Killer's Blade starts out-damaging Surprise Attack or Concealed Weapon. At 25% Health, it does 200% more damage, out-damaging any spammable, but still losing to Impale's 330%. At 12.5% Health, Killer's Blade does 300% more damage... Still losing to Impale by a small amount. Killer's Blade and Impale roughly match in damage at 10%. After that, Killer's Blade does more... But all that extra damage doesn't matter if the enemy would die to a spammable at this point.

Killer's Blade sacrifices ALOT of damage at the 25% Health point (its 200% vs Impale's 330%), with the flip-side being that you can reliably start using it to do more damage than your spammable when the target reaches 33% Health. Also, the Heal is nice.

Killers blade also is much more difficult for people to dodge roll. The animation is very snappy and can be block cancelled very fast.
Impale is a projectile and thus easier to dodge.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Can you explain block canceling? I’ve got light attack weaving down pretty well, but is block canceling where you block to stop an animation early? I’ve also heard of block casting, which I’m assuming is casting a spell while holding block?

gariondavey · December 2023

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Can you explain block canceling? I’ve got light attack weaving down pretty well, but is block canceling where you block to stop an animation early? I’ve also heard of block casting, which I’m assuming is casting a spell while holding block?

Yes, for example whirling blades can be pressed and then you can block and cancel 50+ percent of the animation, causing the damage to go through faster.

You can also "block cancel" buffs and heals, reducing the animation of those as well.

Caecus0 · December 2023

gariondavey wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Zabulus wrote: »

Balorg is a must have.
I use NMG and wretched + markyn / trainee. 3 heavy, 3 light 1 medium armor.
1 swift 2 infused, all +dmg

Stam skills i meant : power extraction & killer blade (exec short range, but damages > impale, and only needs 50% health)
Concealed > the stam version, and you cant sustain the stam version as a magblade anyway.
Frontbar : incap for sustain, stun, +dmg
Backbar : leeching strike to have more stam sustain.

That looks like a solid build. I started running NMG and Rallying Cry over the weekend with Markyn/Trainee, but it’s definitely harder to stay healed up with Stamblade (using Rally/Healthy Offering/ Vigor). Is Siphon Soul usable in PvP? Seems like my only damage skill with the Magblade build would be concealed weapon + incap, unless that’s all you need? I also don’t have Balorgh’s yet, so I may need to wait until I get that to be really competitive.

Do you use power extraction backbar to proc Wretched? I didn’t realize Killer’s Blade was better for damage than impale, although I’ve seen Stam builds use Merciless Resolve over the stamina morph for some reason.

Yes and No. People say Killer's Blade is more damage than Impale when the reality is more complicated.

Killer's Blade and Impale has a base damage of around half of Surprise Attack. Impale does 330% more damage the moment the target reaches 25% Health. Killer's Blade damage scales linearly based on the target's Health when they go below 50%, up to 400% *more* damage, meaning the skill at it's absolute highest will do 5x more damage. A good way to look at it is the skill's damage will go up by 100% for every 12.5% Health the target is missing below 50%.

If the target is just at 49% of their Health, Killer's Blade does next to no additional Damage. It's not worth using at all there. At 37.5% Health, it will do 100% more damage, being roughly on par with your Spammable. After that is the breakpoint at which Killer's Blade starts out-damaging Surprise Attack or Concealed Weapon. At 25% Health, it does 200% more damage, out-damaging any spammable, but still losing to Impale's 330%. At 12.5% Health, Killer's Blade does 300% more damage... Still losing to Impale by a small amount. Killer's Blade and Impale roughly match in damage at 10%. After that, Killer's Blade does more... But all that extra damage doesn't matter if the enemy would die to a spammable at this point.

Killer's Blade sacrifices ALOT of damage at the 25% Health point (its 200% vs Impale's 330%), with the flip-side being that you can reliably start using it to do more damage than your spammable when the target reaches 33% Health. Also, the Heal is nice.

Killers blade also is much more difficult for people to dodge roll. The animation is very snappy and can be block cancelled very fast.
Impale is a projectile and thus easier to dodge.

Also True. Forgot to mention that.

Caecus0 · January 2024

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I don’t have much to add as your build sounds like exactly what I’ve been building, but I’m wondering what HP do you run at? The problem I’ve had with my stamina Nightblade is sticking in a fight, since other classes have so many more skill sets for survivability than NB. I ended up switching to Magicka for the ability to cloak sustain, since I found that was the only way I’ve been able to survive (got the idea from a guy who helped me with my imperial city build). Also, what mundus/food do you run?

I completely missed this. I run the Shadow Mundus for the big crits. It is also a generally good Mundus Stone for NBs due to our innate crit chance from the Assassin Skill line.

My Food Varies, but I tend to bounce between Jewels of Misrule and Dubious Camoran Throne.

My Health tends to fluctuate between 27k-30k, depending on my food buffs or setup. My Vateshran Setup has the 27k Health, but more crit chance.

Despite testing using 2 Heavy, 2 light and 3 Medium, running around with 30k health in Battlegrounds and with 24k Armor buffed up, I still feel like I take way too much damage in fights.

I have also been thinking of swapping to Magicka because it just feels like it may just be flat out better. Hard to say.

SmellyUnlimited · January 2024

I watched a Stamblade destroy folks in BG’s yesterday using Red Mountain. Not sure what his other set was, but I could see Stygian being a possibility. Some people seem to make it work, but I’m not in that group.

Even for magicka NB I feel I don’t have a lot of damaging abilities to use, as say a magicka DK. There’s concealed weapon, merciless resolve, and…well, that’s about it. I get very little benefit from power extraction, and more often than not it drains my stamina I’d be better off using to roll dodge. It is SO much easier to do well on other classes than the NB, but I do see people do well on them too. Wish I knew what the trick was. More often than not I’m cloaking away to heal up, but when I come in to do damage it’s fairly paltry. I’ve run Orders Wrath with Wretched Vitality, or NMG, or I’ve even been thinking of Orders Wrath + Back Alley Gourmand for the massive Crit hits. Just cost prohibitive to try these out on console only to watch them have such negative results.

Caecus0 · January 2024

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I watched a Stamblade destroy folks in BG’s yesterday using Red Mountain. Not sure what his other set was, but I could see Stygian being a possibility. Some people seem to make it work, but I’m not in that group.

Even for magicka NB I feel I don’t have a lot of damaging abilities to use, as say a magicka DK. There’s concealed weapon, merciless resolve, and…well, that’s about it. I get very little benefit from power extraction, and more often than not it drains my stamina I’d be better off using to roll dodge. It is SO much easier to do well on other classes than the NB, but I do see people do well on them too. Wish I knew what the trick was. More often than not I’m cloaking away to heal up, but when I come in to do damage it’s fairly paltry. I’ve run Orders Wrath with Wretched Vitality, or NMG, or I’ve even been thinking of Orders Wrath + Back Alley Gourmand for the massive Crit hits. Just cost prohibitive to try these out on console only to watch them have such negative results.

In my experience it is because Nightblades are oddballs. Either they completely annihilate someone or they tickle them.

For example, when a Dragonknight goes for a kill, they are basically just slapping a bunch of DoTs on the target and apply constant pressure. Once all the DoTs are applied, they just start using their chosen spammable and you just go down, using their Ultimate only when they are low in resources. Even blocking against them doesn't do a whole lot because DoTs ignore block. It's why people can hop on a Dragonknight and get good results almost without trying.

Nightblades on the other hand are just buffing themselves up for one big wombo-combo. Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack are strong spammables in their own right, but they are mainly increasing the damage of other things. Power Extraction gives Major Brutality AND Minor Courage for even more damage. Even Merciless Resolve literally boosts your Weapon Damage. I think you get the idea, but the point is that Nightblades don't apply that much pressure. Instead, they are just setting up for the Incap Strike + Merciless Resolve wombo combo. When they land, most people don't survive unless they are incredibly tanky. But if they don't land it or it gets blocked, nothing happens, and your burst is wasted and you have to wait to do it again.

This is why I think a lot of people have trouble playing as Nightblade: Other classes such as Dragonknight can apply constant pressure and have decent survivability, and it doesn't require a lot of figuring it out to do it: just do your rotation and go to town. Nightblades are just waiting for a burst window on one target, and that burst can get messed up really easily. Combine that with the fact that Nightblades don't have a ton of innate survivability... It doesn't surprise me why people have trouble.

I have been messing around with a Stamina Bomber build using Plaguebreak and Rushing Agony in Battlegrounds and my results have been varied. On the one hand, if my team is behind me, it can bring a lot to a team fight. On the other hand, it can't duel worth a darn and runs out of resources way too easily.

Necrotech_Master · January 2024

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I watched a Stamblade destroy folks in BG’s yesterday using Red Mountain. Not sure what his other set was, but I could see Stygian being a possibility. Some people seem to make it work, but I’m not in that group.

Even for magicka NB I feel I don’t have a lot of damaging abilities to use, as say a magicka DK. There’s concealed weapon, merciless resolve, and…well, that’s about it. I get very little benefit from power extraction, and more often than not it drains my stamina I’d be better off using to roll dodge. It is SO much easier to do well on other classes than the NB, but I do see people do well on them too. Wish I knew what the trick was. More often than not I’m cloaking away to heal up, but when I come in to do damage it’s fairly paltry. I’ve run Orders Wrath with Wretched Vitality, or NMG, or I’ve even been thinking of Orders Wrath + Back Alley Gourmand for the massive Crit hits. Just cost prohibitive to try these out on console only to watch them have such negative results.

theres a lot of "burst procs" that people use for ganks

red mountain, scavenging demise, flameblossom, etc

caluurion used to be a big hitter for awhile until they heavily nerfed its dmg