what's the point of 25k penetration if you can't hit above 200 ?

Quethrosar · November 2023

what's the point of 25k penetration if you can't hit alot of people above 200 ?

CameraBeardThePirate · November 2023

What?

Quethrosar · November 2023

what what?

i have 25k pen and still hit people with small portion of the damage a skill should do.

LunaFlora · November 2023

so what does 200 refer to exactly?

valenwood_vegan · November 2023

Not clear, but I'm guessing we're talking about pvp here? In my somewhat limited experience, lots of pvp'ers are running more than 25k resistances, plus skills giving major and/or minor protection (10% and/or 5% damage reduction), plus vampire undeath passive (up to 30% damage reduction), plus have multiple HoT's up at all times. All of which might explain damage seeming low, even with 25k pen. Just for starters.

Sorry for guessing at the answer, but I'd suggest asking a slightly more detailed question.

Syiccal · November 2023

Probs talking about current templar jabs, even with 25k pen and however much spell dmg you want to apply they hit for soggy wet noodles.. due to all the dmg mitigations available to direct and aoe dmg.

Reverb · November 2023

You need to give way more context for people to help you.

PvP? PvE? What class, spec, and skills? What are your other stats?

wilykcat · November 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

What?

What the what?

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

most people run at armor cap in pvp, which is at least 33k armor

25k pen means they still have at least 8k resist + other mitigation

penetration does not ignore mitigations such as major/minor protection, undeath, or if someone is running pearlescent with a fully dead group (even in 2 person group, 1 dead ally is 33% free mitigation for yourself)

FoJul · November 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

most people run at armor cap in pvp, which is at least 33k armor

25k pen means they still have at least 8k resist + other mitigation

penetration does not ignore mitigations such as major/minor protection, undeath, or if someone is running pearlescent with a fully dead group (even in 2 person group, 1 dead ally is 33% free mitigation for yourself)

Battle Spirit + Undeath passive is 85% damage reduction NOT BLOCKING. if you incorporate buffs and debuffs, it is 100% possible to get 100% damage mitagation.

The op might be referring to Corrosive or magma shell, as having 100k pen or crit damage or 100k weapon and spell dmg you still will average 500 damage max on your burst ability. Corrosive and magma shell = busted ultimate.

Battle spirit gives 55% damage mitagation. Major and minor protection is another 15%. Undeath is 30%. Pains refuge is up to 20%. Major and minor maim (debuff) is another 15%. Ward master is another 10%. Light armor abilitiy dampen magicka can get up to 42% more mitagation. These arent even counting blocking.

(Theres also a few sets in the game too. Potentates/Buffer of the Swift. 13% from those sets.)

Disregarding the sets that you can add to the pool. The buffs mentioned above equals to 187% damage mitagation. Which means it is possible for skills to say 0 damage done. Add all those buffs to DK to corrosive and if your attacking this DK you will take more damage from yourself than he will take from you.

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

FoJul wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

most people run at armor cap in pvp, which is at least 33k armor

25k pen means they still have at least 8k resist + other mitigation

penetration does not ignore mitigations such as major/minor protection, undeath, or if someone is running pearlescent with a fully dead group (even in 2 person group, 1 dead ally is 33% free mitigation for yourself)

Battle Spirit + Undeath passive is 85% damage reduction NOT BLOCKING. if you incorporate buffs and debuffs, it is 100% possible to get 100% damage mitagation.

The op might be referring to Corrosive or magma shell, as having 100k pen or crit damage or 100k weapon and spell dmg you still will average 500 damage max on your burst ability. Corrosive and magma shell = busted ultimate.

Battle spirit gives 55% damage mitagation. Major and minor protection is another 15%. Undeath is 30%. Pains refuge is up to 20%. Major and minor maim (debuff) is another 15%. Ward master is another 10%. Light armor abilitiy dampen magicka can get up to 42% more mitagation. These arent even counting blocking.

(Theres also a few sets in the game too. Potentates/Buffer of the Swift. 13% from those sets.)

Disregarding the sets that you can add to the pool. The buffs mentioned above equals to 187% damage mitagation. Which means it is possible for skills to say 0 damage done. Add all those buffs to DK to corrosive and if your attacking this DK you will take more damage from yourself than he will take from you.

thats not how mitigation works

there are diminishing returns on it, its not straight additive

if an attack does 10,000 dmg

battle spirit reduces that by 50%

so 5000 dmg

major protection is 10% which reduces that to 4500
minor protection is 5% which reduces that 4275

undeath is only 30% if your at 0 hp, so realistically it will never be that, but assuming you have the full bonus it reduces that another 30% which brings the dmg to 2993

and so on so forth, but just from what is described there, that would be additively 95% mitigation, and it only actually reduces the original dmg by about 70% because of the diminishing returns

so mitigation will never reduce dmg to 0, even if you had the 50% mitigation from armor on top of all that

you are right about corrosive/magma shell though, because that limits to a % of the targets max hp, assuming the avg person is 35k max hp, then that would limit all dmg to a max of 1050 per hit (i dont know if mitigations are applied before or after corrosive/magma shell, after would be why the dmg would drop from 1050 to 200s though)

SkaraMinoc · November 2023

Armor and penetration are only a fraction of the damage calculation.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1

Total Mitigation=100-100*(1-Battlespirit/100)*(1-Base Mitigation+Light Armor or Heavy Armor/100)*(1-Mitigation #1/100)*(1-Mitigation #2/100)*(1-(Resistance/660)/100)*((1-Blocking/100)*(1-(Extra blocking #1+Extra blocking #2)/100)-Heavy Block/100)

Damage Taken=Base Damage*(1-Battlespirit/100)*(1-Base Mitigation+Light Armor or Heavy Armor/100)*(1-Mitigation #1/100)*(1-Mitigation #2/100)*(1-(Resistance/660)/100)*((1-Blocking/100)*(1-(Extra blocking #1+Extra blocking #2)/100)-Heavy Block/100)

Mitigation sources are very accessible. For example,

50-90% mitigation = Block
Major Protection 10% = Lingering Flare
Minor Protection 5% = Temporal Guard, Ransack
Major Resolve = Class Skill
Minor Resolve = Resolving Vigor
0-30% mitigation = Vamp 3 Undeath
5% = Nibenay Bay Battlereeve
8-10k armor = Trial by Fire, Aetherial Ascension, Pariah, Armor Master
10% damage mitigation = Buffer of the Swift
3% damage mitigation = Blessing of the Potentates
6% single target mitigation = Blue CP
6% direct damage mitigation = Blue CP
6% aoe mitigation = Blue CP
6% dot mitigation = Blue CP
0-7% physical mitigation = Heavy Armor
0-7% spell mitigation = Light Armor
~20% crit damage mitigation = Rallying Cry
3.5% to 7% spell mitigation = Breton passive
7% fire mitigation = Dark Elf passive
7% frost mitigation = Nord passive
3.5% disease mitigation = Argonian and Wood Elf passives
3.5% poison mitigation = Argonian and Wood Elf passives
2600 armor = Nord passive
Major Maim = enemy does 10% less damage to you
Minor Maim = enemy does 5% less damage to you
Reduce enemy wd/sd by 430 = Major Cowardice from Kynmarcher's

This is only a partial list. Now you see why it's so easy to build a tanky character in PvP.

Quethrosar · November 2023

so of course this is a battlegrounds topic since i posted in battle grounds.
so cp doesn't matter.
the 200 i am talking about would be crushing shock. some people barely get tickled when i have 25k pen.
what's the point of pvp if you can't damage someone and they can come around and 1 shot you even if its really 3 it feels like 1 shot.

SkaraMinoc · November 2023

Quethrosar wrote: »

so of course this is a battlegrounds topic since i posted in battle grounds.
so cp doesn't matter.
the 200 i am talking about would be crushing shock. some people barely get tickled when i have 25k pen.
what's the point of pvp if you can't damage someone and they can come around and 1 shot you even if its really 3 it feels like 1 shot.

Nobody is taking Crushing Shock 200 damage x3 in Battlegrounds unless they're blocking. Even if the enemy has 0 armor, they can still mitigate 90% of your damage with block. Stun them and burst while they are locked down or use DoTs which bypass block. This is why Vate 2H, Master DW, and Maarselok are so popular.