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The more you have, the more you get AP scoring system in Cyrodiil
reazea
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How does a scoring system of the more you have on the map, the more AP you get make sense? Would a system of the more XP you've earned in game the more XP you get from PvE activities make sense?
ZOS needs to take a serious look at their system of earning AP and points that go to faction rank. How much AP you earn should be a set value, not dynamic. A given task should award the same AP every time, not be variable on how much of the map is owned by your faction.
This system combined with a broken low population bonus system is really hurting player enthusiasm and motivation in PvP. The way the AP is awarded now, if your faction is gated it's more beneficial scoring wise to log off rather than stay and fight it out.
A system where the less your faction owns on the map the more AP you get for taking your property back would make far more sense. And just dispose of the low population bonus system all together. On PC NA about 1/4 of the points AD is getting is from un-earned low population bonus points and it's how they are moving up in the campaign rankings on a regular basis, and it's been this way for at least a year now.
ZOS, please revisit your scoring and ranking systems in Cyrodiil. What we have now is essentially a "the rich get richer faster" AP scoring system that is discouraging. And one faction is getting ahead by relying on welfare points to improve their faction rank in the campaign.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
ZOS needs to take a serious look at their system of earning AP and points that go to faction rank. How much AP you earn should be a set value, not dynamic. A given task should award the same AP every time, not be variable on how much of the map is owned by your faction.
This system combined with a broken low population bonus system is really hurting player enthusiasm and motivation in PvP. The way the AP is awarded now, if your faction is gated it's more beneficial scoring wise to log off rather than stay and fight it out.
A system where the less your faction owns on the map the more AP you get for taking your property back would make far more sense. And just dispose of the low population bonus system all together. On PC NA about 1/4 of the points AD is getting is from un-earned low population bonus points and it's how they are moving up in the campaign rankings on a regular basis, and it's been this way for at least a year now.
ZOS, please revisit your scoring and ranking systems in Cyrodiil. What we have now is essentially a "the rich get richer faster" AP scoring system that is discouraging. And one faction is getting ahead by relying on welfare points to improve their faction rank in the campaign.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭definitely worth discussing...
good chance though any changes to the current system will make some folks mad...
as i'm getting mowed down in my home keeps/scroll temples by enemy hordes - i wouldn't mind seeing a stat bump to friendly npcs in those situations...
plus, more dynamic low pop bonuses - i think they're on like a three hour timer or something now, too slow...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Would a system of the more XP you've earned in game the more XP you get from PvE activities make sense?
Actually, that's pretty much the way XP has always worked in Elder Scrolls games and other RPGs-- the more XP you earn, the more skill levels you gain; and the more skill levels you gain, the more XP you earn from killing things and completing quests.Edited by SeaGtGruff on 25 September 2023 01:38I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that scoring & AP needs some fine tuning, but I'd go about it differently.
1. O'ticks should decrease in size the greater the number of players capturing the objective.
2. If a faction has greater number of players for an evaluation period, the next evaluation period they should get an AP debuff.
Eg. AD has 10, DC has 30, average = 20 players. EP has 100, 5 times the average of other 2 factions, they should get an AP penalty of 5 times less AP, to encourage them to go do something else until more enemies come online for them to fight.
As for scoring not sure how you would fix that, but right now factions earn way too much AP pvdooring objectives with their entire faction lol.
NA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel1 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
You want to explain this response please? As far as I know every boss and activity is the same XP no matter your level, assuming CP160 or higher. In PvE you don't get more XP based on how many zones you've already played through or how many achievement points you've earned. So you're comment really needs further explanation please.
Edited by reazea on 27 September 2023 14:242 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
You want to explain this response please? As far as I know every boss and activity is the same XP no matter your level, assuming CP160 or higher. In PvE you don't get more XP based on how many zones you've already played through or how many achievement points you've earned. So you're comment really needs further explanation please.
XP scales to level up until level 50. If it didn't, you could go from 1-50 in like 20 minutes turning in master writs.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
You want to explain this response please? As far as I know every boss and activity is the same XP no matter your level, assuming CP160 or higher. In PvE you don't get more XP based on how many zones you've already played through or how many achievement points you've earned. So you're comment really needs further explanation please.
XP scales to level up until level 50. If it didn't, you could go from 1-50 in like 20 minutes turning in master writs.
For example:
The same overland mob gives me:
331xp on my lvl 27 (with a 50% XP boost)
*675xp on my max level toon, no xp boost active
*Edited because I realized my main was enlightened. Adjusted the XP to account for that.
Edited by jaws343 on 27 September 2023 15:031 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
You want to explain this response please? As far as I know every boss and activity is the same XP no matter your level, assuming CP160 or higher. In PvE you don't get more XP based on how many zones you've already played through or how many achievement points you've earned. So you're comment really needs further explanation please.
Just look at the xp numbers you get from killing mobs at level 1 vs CP 160. You get more XP from sources as you level up, because more XP is required to level up in the higher levels.
Saying "no matter your level, CP 160 or higher" is being disingenuous since CP 160 is the level cap. Of course you don't gain more experience at higher CP levels than that, because that's where things stop scaling.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 27 September 2023 15:050 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
You want to explain this response please? As far as I know every boss and activity is the same XP no matter your level, assuming CP160 or higher. In PvE you don't get more XP based on how many zones you've already played through or how many achievement points you've earned. So you're comment really needs further explanation please.
Just look at the xp numbers you get from killing mobs at level 1 vs CP 160. You get more XP from sources as you level up, because more XP is required to level up in the higher levels.
Saying "no matter your level, CP 160 or higher" is being disingenuous since CP 160 is the level cap. Of course you don't gain more experience at higher CP levels than that, because that's where things stop scaling.
I'm not being "disingenuous" in any way.
Once you've reached CP160, which takes a few days at most, there is no XP scaling and XP is a flat value. So AP and XP ARE NOT scaled in the same way. In cyrodiil the more of the map your faction owns the more AP you get. In PvE you don't get more XP based on the more content you've completed or achievement points you have.
My point stands.
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
You want to explain this response please? As far as I know every boss and activity is the same XP no matter your level, assuming CP160 or higher. In PvE you don't get more XP based on how many zones you've already played through or how many achievement points you've earned. So you're comment really needs further explanation please.
Just look at the xp numbers you get from killing mobs at level 1 vs CP 160. You get more XP from sources as you level up, because more XP is required to level up in the higher levels.
Saying "no matter your level, CP 160 or higher" is being disingenuous since CP 160 is the level cap. Of course you don't gain more experience at higher CP levels than that, because that's where things stop scaling.
I'm not being "disingenuous" in any way.
Once you've reached CP160, which takes a few days at most, there is no XP scaling and XP is a flat value. So AP and XP ARE NOT scaled in the same way. In cyrodiil the more of the map your faction owns the more AP you get. In PvE you don't get more XP based on the more content you've completed or achievement points you have.
My point stands.
But, you get different XP depending on the content you are doing, which is no different than getting different AP depending on the state of the campaign you are in.
Like, the same enemy in a Dungeon and in Overland will give you different XP amounts.0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OK but honestly, you should be rewarded for owning more of the map. I feel like that's just common sense. Your faction is doing better, so you're rewarded with more AP.
You get more XP from being "more successful" in PvE content. Doing things like BRP or Trials gives more experience than overland.
Why on earth should the losing faction get more AP for getting their butt whooped?Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 27 September 2023 16:220 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »OK but honestly, you should be rewarded for owning more of the map. I feel like that's just common sense. Your faction is doing better, so you're rewarded with more AP.
You get more XP from being "more successful" in PvE content. Doing things like BRP or Trials gives more experience than overland.
Why on earth should the losing faction get more AP for getting their butt whooped?
I answered that question in the original post.
The object should be to encourage people to keep playing, not encourage them to give up and log out. The award system should encourage people to keep playing, especially if they're "getting their butt whooped".
I disagree very much with your thinking that awards structures should be slanted to favor those already ahead.
How much time do you spend in PvP? It sounds like not very much if any at all. I only PvE to get gear to PvP with.
Edited by reazea on 27 September 2023 23:222 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »OK but honestly, you should be rewarded for owning more of the map. I feel like that's just common sense. Your faction is doing better, so you're rewarded with more AP.
You get more XP from being "more successful" in PvE content. Doing things like BRP or Trials gives more experience than overland.
Why on earth should the losing faction get more AP for getting their butt whooped?
I answered that question in the original post.
The object should be to encourage people to keep playing, not encourage them to give up and log out. The award system should encourage people to keep playing, especially if they're "getting their butt whooped".
I disagree very much with your thinking that awards structures should be slanted to favor those already ahead.
How much time do you spend in PvP? It sounds like not very much if any at all. I only PvE to get gear to PvP with.
I spend nearly all of my time in PvP. If losing gave more AP than winning, people would abuse the system.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 28 September 2023 15:431 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I spend nearly all of my time in PvP. If losing gave more AP than winning, people would abuse the system.
Considering how much time and effort factions spend to finesse the low pop bonus, I’m absolutely inclined to agree with that statement. If there’s a system to be abused, there will be players who abuse it.
Besides, the second you incentivize a lack of effort, people will absolutely stop trying. Why go for first place when last place gives a greater reward?1 -
GooGa592✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I spend nearly all of my time in PvP. If losing gave more AP than winning, people would abuse the system.
Considering how much time and effort factions spend to finesse the low pop bonus, I’m absolutely inclined to agree with that statement. If there’s a system to be abused, there will be players who abuse it.
Besides, the second you incentivize a lack of effort, people will absolutely stop trying. Why go for first place when last place gives a greater reward?
I'm inclined to agree with the OP. There needs to be incentive for the gated faction to stick around and fight it out. As it is now if they just all log off the low pop bonus will carry them, thus encouraging people to just log off because their faction will get more points with low pop bonus than if they stay logged on.0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I spend nearly all of my time in PvP. If losing gave more AP than winning, people would abuse the system.
Considering how much time and effort factions spend to finesse the low pop bonus, I’m absolutely inclined to agree with that statement. If there’s a system to be abused, there will be players who abuse it.
Besides, the second you incentivize a lack of effort, people will absolutely stop trying. Why go for first place when last place gives a greater reward?
I'm inclined to agree with the OP. There needs to be incentive for the gated faction to stick around and fight it out. As it is now if they just all log off the low pop bonus will carry them, thus encouraging people to just log off because their faction will get more points with low pop bonus than if they stay logged on.
Giving them more AP for losing won't fix that problem though. You'd just have people throwing until their faction is in last place - it doesn't make any sense to reward a loser more than the winner because then people will stop trying to win.
You don't fix the problem by rewarding the team in last, you fix it by giving them a slight buff to help them take back more territory.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 18 October 2023 14:241