Jewelry Trait Question

Marolf · September 2023

I'm running a Templar with Sergeants Mail + Noble Duelist + Slimecrawl + Oakensoul.

I recently transmuted my jewelry from Arcane to Bloodthirsty and noticed a pretty good drop in spell damage. I'm just wondering if I'm mainly focusing on trash mobs, was it a smart change?

WrathOfInnos · September 2023

Yes, it was a smart change. I consider Bloodthirsty to be a necessity on Templar more than any other class. It significantly increases the damage output of beams in execute.

Bloodthirsty does not show up in spell damage stats, but it is there behind the scenes doing work.

It also can depend on how strong the trash you are fighting is. If it is something you kill in 2 hits then you probably won’t notice much impact from BT. If the enemy takes 5-10 ticks to die then you’ll start to see some benefit on the BT swap, but it really shines against stronger enemies that you’ll be focusing down with single target beams.

Marolf · September 2023

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, it was a smart change. I consider Bloodthirsty to be a necessity on Templar more than any other class. It significantly increases the damage output of beams in execute.

Bloodthirsty does not show up in spell damage stats, but it is there behind the scenes doing work.

It also can depend on how strong the trash you are fighting is. If it is something you kill in 2 hits then you probably won’t notice much impact from BT. If the enemy takes 5-10 ticks to die then you’ll start to see some benefit on the BT swap, but it really shines against stronger enemies that you’ll be focusing down with single target beams.

Thanks for the information!

Nihilr · September 2023

Marolf wrote: »

I'm running a Templar with Sergeants Mail + Noble Duelist + Slimecrawl + Oakensoul.

I recently transmuted my jewelry from Arcane to Bloodthirsty and noticed a pretty good drop in spell damage. I'm just wondering if I'm mainly focusing on trash mobs, was it a smart change?

That's because Infused is slightly better for starting damage, and it doesn't get beat by bloodthirsty until like 15% remaining health, and by then your executes will take out the enemy quickly. If you have no executes, I still find Infused to be more useful especially since it also increases your healing, as bloodthirsty is ONLY damage power applied to a single target.

Zodiarkslayer · September 2023

While @WrathOfInnos is absolutely correct for damage dealing in group content, I find I have to disagree for Templars and Dragonknights, at least in SOLO content.

The access to minor Sorcery and Brutality gets Infused so close to Bloodthirsty over the entire fight. Not just up until the execute phase.
And that is simply because Bloodthirsty is not getting buffed by Major and Minor Brutality/Sorcery, but the WD/SD from Infused is.
Templar even gets another 6% from class passives, not talking about other multipliers like FG passives. All of those should/do not increase the 350 WD/SD from Bloodthirsty.

The next thing to consider is how big is your damage stat before Bloodthirsty gets added. The additional SD/WD is less impactful at higher Spelldamage numbers than at lower numbers. That is because of how damage scaling in abilities works. The efficiency of additional WD/SD is decreasing significantly at numbers over 6.5k, I believe.

Just for context here: My Templar sits at almost 9k Spelldamage in dungeons, when the Tank and Healer bring minor and major Courage plus Powerful Assault. That is with Infused.

@Marolf
Bloodthirsty is the best when we are talking about DPS in long Boss fights. No question.
But outside of that it comes down to a question of economy and of what content you are actually doing. What are your needs outside of damage dealing? That is the question you should ask yourself.
I use Infused, because the only group content, that I do anymore, is the two base game vetDungs per day.

Amerises · September 2023

Infused is 60% of 174, so 104.4
Add 30% for maj/min sorc, 3% for Camo Hunter, 2% for 1pc med, 6% for passive, and that’s a total of 147.2 extra WD/SD.

Bloodthirsty reaches that around 27-ish%. The reason that is important in lots of content, is most bosses have increased mechanics in execute.

Keep in mind, the 147.2 from infused will effect your healing.

IMHO unless you’re doing vet DLC dungeons / vet arenas / trials / DLC world bosses, infused will all around be better.

Marolf · October 2023

Amerises wrote: »

Infused is 60% of 174, so 104.4
Add 30% for maj/min sorc, 3% for Camo Hunter, 2% for 1pc med, 6% for passive, and that’s a total of 147.2 extra WD/SD.

Bloodthirsty reaches that around 27-ish%. The reason that is important in lots of content, is most bosses have increased mechanics in execute.

Keep in mind, the 147.2 from infused will effect your healing.

IMHO unless you’re doing vet DLC dungeons / vet arenas / trials / DLC world bosses, infused will all around be better.

Interesting, thanks.

Marolf · October 2023

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

While @WrathOfInnos is absolutely correct for damage dealing in group content, I find I have to disagree for Templars and Dragonknights, at least in SOLO content.

The access to minor Sorcery and Brutality gets Infused so close to Bloodthirsty over the entire fight. Not just up until the execute phase.
And that is simply because Bloodthirsty is not getting buffed by Major and Minor Brutality/Sorcery, but the WD/SD from Infused is.
Templar even gets another 6% from class passives, not talking about other multipliers like FG passives. All of those should/do not increase the 350 WD/SD from Bloodthirsty.

The next thing to consider is how big is your damage stat before Bloodthirsty gets added. The additional SD/WD is less impactful at higher Spelldamage numbers than at lower numbers. That is because of how damage scaling in abilities works. The efficiency of additional WD/SD is decreasing significantly at numbers over 6.5k, I believe.

Just for context here: My Templar sits at almost 9k Spelldamage in dungeons, when the Tank and Healer bring minor and major Courage plus Powerful Assault. That is with Infused.

@Marolf
Bloodthirsty is the best when we are talking about DPS in long Boss fights. No question.
But outside of that it comes down to a question of economy and of what content you are actually doing. What are your needs outside of damage dealing? That is the question you should ask yourself.
I use Infused, because the only group content, that I do anymore, is the two base game vetDungs per day.

Thank you for the information.

WrathOfInnos · October 2023

Amerises wrote: »

Infused is 60% of 174, so 104.4
Add 30% for maj/min sorc, 3% for Camo Hunter, 2% for 1pc med, 6% for passive, and that’s a total of 147.2 extra WD/SD.

Bloodthirsty reaches that around 27-ish%. The reason that is important in lots of content, is most bosses have increased mechanics in execute.

Keep in mind, the 147.2 from infused will effect your healing.

IMHO unless you’re doing vet DLC dungeons / vet arenas / trials / DLC world bosses, infused will all around be better.

Mostly good info here, just one correction. Bloodthirsty reaches the equivalent 147 WD/SD when the enemy is at 52% health.

The BT scaling is linear, starting at 0 for 90% enemy health and going up to 350 (assuming gold quality). For a quick reference this means:
- 0 at 100%
- 0 at 90%
- 35 at 81%
- 70 at 72%
- 105 at 63%
- 140 at 54%
- 175 at 45%
- 210 at 36%
- 245 at 27%
- 280 at 18%
- 315 at 9%
- 350 at 0%

It is true that some builds with a high multiplier may be better off with infused. This usually requires class passives, fighters guild, and several pieces of medium armor. My stam Sorc for example reaches a 1.55 WD/SD multiplier, resulting in 162 from Infused (slightly above the 157 average of BT). This works well because Sorc has a bonus in the early fight (amplitude passive) and lacks a good execute (in PVE).

However IMO, even a medium armor Stamplar with a 1.57 multiplier performs better with BT just due to their damage being so much higher in the 2nd half of any boss encounter from beam. This is less impactful against weak enemies, so I can see an argument for Infused there, especially if you need extra self-healing.

For magplar in mostly light armor, I believe the balance shifts significantly toward BT. This is especially true when you consider that their main 2 self-heals, Puncturing Sweep and Radiant Glory, both are able to scale with Bloodthirsty, since they heal a % of damage done.