population imbalance, lack of grouping

madmidwestmark · September 2023

Pvp really needs to change ap based on population. Low pop bonus isn't enough. If equal population, 100%. For every bar less than highest current alliance, you gain 15%. If most population is on one side, 3 bars vs 2 vs 2, the 3 bar loses 15%. If pop locked vs 1 bar vs 3 bar, -15% to pop lock side, +45% to 1 bar, + 15% to 3 bar.

Rewards. Winning a 30 day campaign should give winner 300,000 gold per character at rank 3, gold pvp jewelry AND 300,00 ap. 2nd is 200,00 gold/ap with purple jewelry and 3rd is 100,000 gold/ ap with blue jewelry. I think top 3% per alliance should get a pvp specific weapon (new set weapon for pvpers). The weapon should be similar to maelstrom or master weapons, but specifically aimed for pvp. It needs to be sellable! That way people who don't play as much can still get it.

Grouping. Give a group lead 10% bonus ap that stacks with other bonuses. Guilds should get ap and have guild leaderboards. Guild ap can be spent on new merchants at bases and also to upgrade keeps they own. Upgrades for walls, npc's and doors. Additionally they should allow upgrades to add oiler npcs at doors. Also a "boss" npc for flags, options for dk, sorc, etc per flag. Guilds get guild ap over time from holding keeps, from defense ticks, and by a group lead being at offensive ticks (must have tabbard equipped in a group as lead). Guilds need love!

The above changes would help equilibrium in pvp, add rewards that make the campaign worth playing for and make Guilds more meaningful.

doesurmindglow · September 2023

Excellent points, thank you Mark.

I really feel like there's so much discussion about how to balance PVP from a combat abilities and set effects standpoint, and so many relatively fruitless efforts to placate the desire for more "content" in PVP by rolling out new sets and cosmetics. These efforts aren't all bad, by any means, but to me I really do feel some of the development attention is much better spent on concepts like this one: overarching adjustments to the wider game design in PVP that are much easier to trace to a result of more competitive, balanced PVP experiences.

I also think one of the biggest barriers to entry and obstacles to balance in PVP is the inability to find a group, and efforts to incentivize and reward "guild-making" would be really well spent. I don't know that the best group leads would emerge necessarily from a modest AP reward, but it's the sort of thing that might nudge someone weighing leadership into the role, and potentially create more options for players looking to get into PVP to more easily find raid groups.

I really hope more players might start thinking along these lines, even if they don't agree with exactly this solution to some of the challenges facing PVP and by extension, the game in general, it is the kind of idea we don't see enough of.

Dovahmiim · September 2023

Definitely agree on the first point, there is no incentive to put yourself at the numbers disadvantage in Cyro, so most players will just opt to PvP only when they can faceroll with a zerg.

As for grouping though, disagree. Generally more skilled players prefer to form smaller groups, they should be rewarded not punished if they manage to be effective under these conditions.

Blackrim · September 2023

This post makes an excellent suggestion to grouping. Most of the time, it is organized groups or guilds that change the map of a Cyrodiil campaign. Their contribution to the campaign should absolutely include some benefit system. I like the idea of guilds obtaining upgrades to a possessed keep. It could be a three man or a twelve man stack of players to trigger guild ap. This is a great idea.

BetweenMidgets · September 2023

I like the idea of the grouping thing. Grouping up in an MMO should have benefits, and it can help build community/friends within the game that keep people playing.

Hard disagree with the gold incentive though. As if the game needs more gold injected into it currently. The inflation in game is pretty bonkers.

madmidwestmark · September 2023

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

As if the game needs more gold injected into it currently. The inflation in game is pretty bonkers.

True, but it's over a 30 day campaign. That's, at most 10k/day for just 1 faction, which won't cause that much. Losing faction would only get 3333 gold/day. Needs to be something that really drives entire alliances to try to win vs "farming" and grifting all the time. We've had 1 alliance win for a year straight. That's not good competition wise. Maybe there's a better alternative? 🤔

Necrotech_Master · September 2023

i wouldnt complain about a bonus to grouping, through i tend to not group much while in pvp

i dont think a gold reward is an incentive, a lot of people already make 300k by doing writs on their full acct per day, so 300k from the end of campaign doesnt amount to hardly anything except injecting even more gold into the system

i personally do not care at all about campaign scoring whatsoever, if im in cyro, its to have fun and make AP, not the scores, if the population is too imbalanced and my faction is getting steamrolled, i just leave, its not fun, period, and adding larger bonus will not make it fun for the losing factions unless well your into that kind of thing or a tower troll

if you want more incentive for people to get up to tier 3 my suggestion is add more transmutes, those are the biggest draw why anyone even bothers to get to tier 1 most of the time

madmidwestmark · September 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i wouldnt complain about a bonus to grouping, through i tend to not group much while in pvp

i dont think a gold reward is an incentive, a lot of people already make 300k by doing writs on their full acct per day, so 300k from the end of campaign doesnt amount to hardly anything except injecting even more gold into the system

i personally do not care at all about campaign scoring whatsoever, if im in cyro, its to have fun and make AP, not the scores, if the population is too imbalanced and my faction is getting steamrolled, i just leave, its not fun, period, and adding larger bonus will not make it fun for the losing factions unless well your into that kind of thing or a tower troll

if you want more incentive for people to get up to tier 3 my suggestion is add more transmutes, those are the biggest draw why anyone even bothers to get to tier 1 most of the time

when the game DOESN'T incentivize you to want to play for score under their rules, then they are failing at development. I mean, yes, it's cool to play to just have fun, BUT if there isn't a real reason to play for map control, why not go BG's? Why join any guilds? This is a MMO, the game should be designed to bring people together.

Necrotech_Master · September 2023

madmidwestmark wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i wouldnt complain about a bonus to grouping, through i tend to not group much while in pvp

i dont think a gold reward is an incentive, a lot of people already make 300k by doing writs on their full acct per day, so 300k from the end of campaign doesnt amount to hardly anything except injecting even more gold into the system

i personally do not care at all about campaign scoring whatsoever, if im in cyro, its to have fun and make AP, not the scores, if the population is too imbalanced and my faction is getting steamrolled, i just leave, its not fun, period, and adding larger bonus will not make it fun for the losing factions unless well your into that kind of thing or a tower troll

if you want more incentive for people to get up to tier 3 my suggestion is add more transmutes, those are the biggest draw why anyone even bothers to get to tier 1 most of the time

when the game DOESN'T incentivize you to want to play for score under their rules, then they are failing at development. I mean, yes, it's cool to play to just have fun, BUT if there isn't a real reason to play for map control, why not go BG's? Why join any guilds? This is a MMO, the game should be designed to bring people together.

the problem with map control is that it kills the fighting

if you gate an enemy faction, they just log off, if you gate both factions, cyro becomes pretty dead, your faction has nothing to take, and enemy factions wont try fighting when even taking a resource is a 1v20 endeavor

i dont do BGs much anymore because the rewards are awful, queues too long, and MMR is nonexistent (so basically a host of other issues unrelated to the actual content)

i do casual cyro grouping with the guild i do trials with on fridays, but if the maps not moving much, it can get boring and sometimes we end up doing something else

madmidwestmark · September 2023

If grouping, awards and population imbalance fixes were in place, people would play more. Fights would be more spread. The problem is the current rules that make stacking, etc the norm.

Delphinia · September 2023

And then you have this for over 6 hours on the pc/na "main" campaign... just speaking of population imbalances...
How this can be considered pvp, or even any semblance of fun is beyond me
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