Helping NB's

Guppet · May 2014

So the devs are aware that NB's struggle with large groups of mobs and want to fix that.

Let's see what we can come up with for them, that gives NB's so thing unique.

My suggestion is to make agony a 30 second mez, that does not initiate combat and can be used from stealth. Voila you now have to take on one less mob and do so in a class unique way. You have also given them some true group utility.

What other suggestions do people have?

gunsofdeschain · May 2014

That prevents you from using any AoE whatsoever around that mezzed mob. That only makes it even worse.

Guppet · May 2014

You would have to think how to use it. The class is not built to just aoe down packs. That's part of the current issue.

If they can give us a way to deal with packs, that isn't just aoe down the lot of them, that would be the best fix, as we keep class flavour.

Packs of 3 would be easy with this (agony number 3, mark number 2, use stealth opener and insta jib number 1). Packs of 4 would need some planning, but could be done.

Stealth classes have traditionally required thinking outside the box and a bit of planning. If you want a charge in class there are already options for that.

Fatalyis · May 2014

Might as well make it turn them into a sheep!

Artis · May 2014

We need some okay aoe damage. Maybe, some smoke bomb that would make enemies miss us and take damage as well?(Kinda ninja style, fits the class, I think).
And hey, since we're so much worse in every aspect of the game, give us at least higher damage.Even single target damage might be a bit higher.
Btw, to sustain high damage we need to say no to surviveability and utility, so make our abilities not so straightforward.
Like "Smoke bomb" type of thing - damage AND something useful for the group. Also, I think I expected more CC from this class. We need a normal stun or knockdown (like templar's spear).

Aerieth · May 2014

I like the idea of this thread, let's get brainstorming!

But yeah, I think the OP's idea of Agony not initiating combat or breaking sneak / invis would be a good starting point. Also it could be instant cast imho and only usable when hidden? Or perhaps have one morph make the affected target immune to AoE on top of the stun.

Guppet · May 2014

Love the idea of a morph that makes it immune to aoe. Maybe the other lets it be used out of stealth.

Zerl · May 2014

I honestly don't think that bringing the NB's AoEs in line with the others is the way forward, as what this does, is essentially blur the lines between the classes.

I know the game promotes that you play "your way", but at the same time there there needs to be some differences that define each respective Class. Blurring the lines between the Classes makes the initial choice moot, as everyone is essentially the same.

SO on that basis, I think there should be more of an emphasis on single-target burst DPS and evasion rather than boosting the AoE damage.

I don't mind being under the knowledge that my AoE is lacklustre against a Sorc or DK if I know that they cannot compare to my single-target DPS.

Gisgo · May 2014

I suggest people to stand still so i can get my stealthed attack right.
Ty.

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2014

Zerl wrote: »

I don't mind being under the knowledge that my AoE is lacklustre against a Sorc or DK if I know that they cannot compare to my single-target DPS.

Id be fine with that too if vet content didnt in big part consist of large packs of high hp mobs.

The_Emproer · May 2014

i just haven't felt like my NB struggles with packs of mobs, even in VR content. Power Extraction + Cleave/Whirlwind/Shrouded Daggers/Impulse + Veil of Blades pretty much does the trick.

Aerieth · May 2014

I have to say that I'd be okay with all characters having access to all "class" skill trees, perhaps through completing new quests that unlock those for you.

It's not that I have anything against class systems or people and/or builds that fall within the classic confinements of Warrior, Mage and the Thief, but like many others, I find myself playing a different kind of class, one that's not exactly any of the listed above, but something entirely different.

In most RPG's they are essential, but I feel like the whole idea of TES:O is to break that golden rule in order to create something that's unheard of in the MMORPG genre. Being able to create any kind of build imaginable - that's not game breaking - is the very heart and soul of the game.

I hope spell crafting will aid the overall game in that department.

zamiel · May 2014

The AoE damage is just fine. More than fine actually. Power Extraction and Pulsar melts mobs in seconds.

The problem is the total lack of damage control. Every class out there either can pull off heavy armor casting or have a huge armor/resist buff (hell, even a toggle). All we have is unstoppable...

williams226 · May 2014

what about making shadow cloak once unlocked in skill tree make it a toggle on and off, but while slotted it reduces magika by 5% - no cost to activate / cancel or a very reduced cost...

Gisgo · May 2014

No. Its fine as it is. When it works, of course.

Mucera78 · May 2014

I dont know about veteran content as i am not there yet but in the lvl 40 it is no prob to aoe entire rooms. You dont do it as easy mode as DK and if i forget a buff or make a mistake then i am toast. But that is really how it should be, i think NB is fine, the other classes are to strong, making group play almost unnecessary. Mob difficulty should be higher in dungeons in general and all aoe should have a target limit.
The only thing i would love for NB is a poison dot on some skill that interrupts spell casting.
That would let you sleep one mob, interrupt the healer / mage and quickyl deal with the melee first.

Lynx7386 · May 2014

Here's what I'd like to see:

Assassination:

Teleport Strike - Lotus fan: Increased AoE Damage

Shadow:

Summon Shade: Make the shade(s) taunt a single target constantly, and give them enough dodge, armor, or hitpoints to actually tank that target for a short period of time to allow the nightblade to focus on something else, almost like a distraction.

Siphoning:

Strife - Funnel Health: Make it deal damage to the target and 2 nearby targets, while healing the player and 2 nearby allies. This makes it a multi-target damaging attack.

Agony: Remove the damage over time from this ability so that it can be repeatedly used on a target (that's the entire reason it has a DoT, to prevent you from mezzing a single target several times in a row). As a counter, make it so the ability only works on one target at a time. This would allow a nightblade to take one target out of a fight while concentrating on dealing with other enemies.

Drain Power: Increase the damage this ability deals to nearby targets, and make the weapon damage bonus also apply to spells.

Aerieth · May 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Here's what I'd like to see:

Assassination:

Teleport Strike - Lotus fan: Increased AoE Damage

Shadow:

Summon Shade: Make the shade(s) taunt a single target constantly, and give them enough dodge, armor, or hitpoints to actually tank that target for a short period of time to allow the nightblade to focus on something else, almost like a distraction.

Siphoning:

Strife - Funnel Health: Make it deal damage to the target and 2 nearby targets, while healing the player and 2 nearby allies. This makes it a multi-target damaging attack.

Agony: Remove the damage over time from this ability so that it can be repeatedly used on a target (that's the entire reason it has a DoT, to prevent you from mezzing a single target several times in a row). As a counter, make it so the ability only works on one target at a time. This would allow a nightblade to take one target out of a fight while concentrating on dealing with other enemies.

Drain Power: Increase the damage this ability deals to nearby targets, and make the weapon damage bonus also apply to spells.

I agree on all of these completely.
- The AoE damage on Lotus Fan is way too low.
- Never used the Shade because it doesn't tank stuff.
- Funnel Health would be actually worth considering with that change. Swallow Soul is way better at the moment.
- Agony is okay as it is, but a little buff would bring it up to par with other skills in usefulness.
- The damage that Drain Power deals at the moment is laughably low and needs a serious buff.

ahspear37 · May 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Siphoning:

Strife - Funnel Health: Make it deal damage to the target and 2 nearby targets, while healing the player and 2 nearby allies. This makes it a multi-target damaging attack.

Agony: Remove the damage over time from this ability so that it can be repeatedly used on a target (that's the entire reason it has a DoT, to prevent you from mezzing a single target several times in a row). As a counter, make it so the ability only works on one target at a time. This would allow a nightblade to take one target out of a fight while concentrating on dealing with other enemies.

Drain Power: Increase the damage this ability deals to nearby targets, and make the weapon damage bonus also apply to spells.

I agree 100% with this. I think a separate AoE health leech (different from Strife) would be amazing, as well as a small buff to the health you get from Strife (or, to at least fix it so you get as much health as it says it gives you).

Someone on here said that we shouldn't have a good AoE built into our class in order to make us distinct from classes. I don't agree. What that does is pigeonhole the class into a specific role, and restricts build possibilities. I am a Bloodmage/Warlock build, and I would love having an AoE built into my class skills, especially if it leeched health too!

Aerieth wrote: »

It's not that I have anything against class systems or people and/or builds that fall within the classic confinements of Warrior, Mage and the Thief, but like many others, I find myself playing a different kind of class, one that's not exactly any of the listed above, but something entirely different.

In most RPG's they are essential, but I feel like the whole idea of TES:O is to break that golden rule in order to create something that's unheard of in the MMORPG genre. Being able to create any kind of build imaginable - that's not game breaking - is the very heart and soul of the game.

You explained my opinion perfectly

Liquid_Time · May 2014

Hmm.. After seeing some great ideas from above..
Poison Cloud
-AoE
-Users affected are stunned for 2 seconds and are unable to see the NB that used it for 4 seconds. Add some small poison damage as well?

ottohi · May 2014

Think outside the box too. If you're fighting multiple mobs the answer doesn't have to be more AoE damage or CC on mobs, our defenses could help make up for some of our lessened AoE power.

Make the blur morph (the one that increases for like 2 sec the miss chance, I forget the name as I don't use it) increase dodge by an additional 10% per nearby mob (maybe less, maybe more).
1 mob: 15%
2 mobs: 25%
3 mobs: 35%
4 mobs: 45%
5 mobs: 55%
6 mobs: 65%
Cap at 6.
The more mobs, the less attacks (in theory) you get on you. The less hits hit you, the longer you'll live. The 6 cap is for PvP reasons.