I don't know about MagSorc, but my StamSorc feels like he's in a far better place than my StamBlade right now, and has been for the last few years.

Then again, my StamBlade doesn't use a lot of NB class skills on a regular basis, whereas my StamSorc uses a few Sorc class skills (combat pets) on a semi-regular basis-- although even when he doesn't summon his combat pets, he still outperforms my StamBlade most of the time.

They do not care

Personally im just blown away that this is still an endless question when its blatantly obvious to anyone who pays attention to the whole game and not just their tiny niche.

Propose something to actually balance them for both instead of just complaining. Again. this is probably the 200th thread ive seen in the last year but literally not a single suggestion that wouldn't bin them competently for pve.

Sorc is one burst heal skill (one barred) from being OP. For pvp, that is.

Magsorc just needs a damage buff to Haunting Curse and maybe do something to free up one skill slot like adding major breach to something.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Personally im just blown away that this is still an endless question when its blatantly obvious to anyone who pays attention to the whole game and not just their tiny niche.

Propose something to actually balance them for both instead of just complaining. Again. this is probably the 200th thread ive seen in the last year but literally not a single suggestion that wouldn't bin them competently for pve.

I have occasionally said something about this exact thing. I'll say it again so you can hear it.

The reason NBs suck at PvE is the same reason they rock at PvP. They have unique buffs to penetration and unique buffs to crit and crit damage, and all of their damage is bursty. They have an amazing spammable, a good class execute, and the single hardest hitting ramp-up-burst-tool in the game. This is great for PVP where burst is king and you can never have enough penetration or crit damage. For organized PvE, where everybody is already at pen cap and prolly close to crit cap as well, these bonuses are wasted. And their bursty style falls short of delivering the DPS other classes' more layered and DoT intensive rotations may bring.

Taking some power out of their burst-- namely the three things I already mentioned but perhaps their ultimates too-- and sprinkling it around to some other areas would both diminish their potency in PvP and bolster them in PvE.

NBs can absolutely do 120k damage in one second. Their problem is they can't do it for 20 seconds in a row.

Yes im well aware. Ive mained a blade for a while although i dont play it at all in pvp. Thing is they would need stronger dots to balance it out in that case because right now their dots are very lackluster as far as the damage and taking from their major damage sources which are all burst without adding to dot would make it even less viable. I mean lets be real- bow proc is the class, same as beam with arc. They nerf it and the class is in the bin completely. The issue that is consistently run into here is the style of the class. Its an assassin class and its designed like one. Changing a lot of the burst style would change class identity or atleast thats the dev train of thought. They would have to figure out how to keep that intact while balancing.

MagNB shot up in PvP when hybridization was a new thing. Before hybridization nightblades' didn't even come close to what they do now. #reversehybridization.

FoJul wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Personally im just blown away that this is still an endless question when its blatantly obvious to anyone who pays attention to the whole game and not just their tiny niche.

Propose something to actually balance them for both instead of just complaining. Again. this is probably the 200th thread ive seen in the last year but literally not a single suggestion that wouldn't bin them competently for pve.

I have occasionally said something about this exact thing. I'll say it again so you can hear it.

The reason NBs suck at PvE is the same reason they rock at PvP. They have unique buffs to penetration and unique buffs to crit and crit damage, and all of their damage is bursty. They have an amazing spammable, a good class execute, and the single hardest hitting ramp-up-burst-tool in the game. This is great for PVP where burst is king and you can never have enough penetration or crit damage. For organized PvE, where everybody is already at pen cap and prolly close to crit cap as well, these bonuses are wasted. And their bursty style falls short of delivering the DPS other classes' more layered and DoT intensive rotations may bring.

Taking some power out of their burst-- namely the three things I already mentioned but perhaps their ultimates too-- and sprinkling it around to some other areas would both diminish their potency in PvP and bolster them in PvE.

NBs can absolutely do 120k damage in one second. Their problem is they can't do it for 20 seconds in a row.

Yes im well aware. Ive mained a blade for a while although i dont play it at all in pvp. Thing is they would need stronger dots to balance it out in that case because right now their dots are very lackluster as far as the damage and taking from their major damage sources which are all burst without adding to dot would make it even less viable. I mean lets be real- bow proc is the class, same as beam with arc. They nerf it and the class is in the bin completely. The issue that is consistently run into here is the style of the class. Its an assassin class and its designed like one. Changing a lot of the burst style would change class identity or atleast thats the dev train of thought. They would have to figure out how to keep that intact while balancing.

MagNB shot up in PvP when hybridization was a new thing. Before hybridization nightblades' didn't even come close to what they do now. #reversehybridization.

Mmm no. Prior to elswyer they were uber meta. Hence the bible like nerf they recieved that update. Look it up if you werent there for it. You wanna see broken? That was it. Todays blade doesnt even hold a candle.

And btw- just prior to hybridization was the absolute worst nb has ever been as a class for pve. I was frequently asked why i bothered playing it at all. So uh no.

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Well in PVE the Magsorc is easier to use than the NB and with a HA lightning staff build is pretty OP. Far more than a NB.

I don't PVP so I have no idea if NBs are OP in that field, but since there are never going to separate pve I don't think it's fair to expect an overall nerf that will affect all players not just PVP.

The issue for PvE is that the heavy attack builds are either petsorc builds or world/weapon abilities + crit surge which can be ran on any class (minus crit surge), not just sorcerer. When it comes to traditional weaving builds though, sorcerer is almost as bad as NB in that regard, with the same lack of cleave issues and especially when not using pets, severely lacks in damage as well. Even stamsorcs are using pets in PvE content since U35, that's how far the class has fallen when you remove the pets from the equation (note that not everyone likes pets or enjoys using them, they're just forced to because the other options have been consistently gutted over the years with nothing to keep them remotely relevant).

Most people are fine with NB getting a buff that focusses exclusively on PvE, but the devs seem to refuse to limit their NB buffs to PvE only so the class has just received generic buff after generic buff for over a year straight now and it's become way too strong in PvP (to the point that NB is the only class that doesn't require running the current meta proc build (masters DW + vate ice staff) to perform well in PvP, even DK is mostly running that build now or are cheesing a mechanical acuity build that relies on a friend to pass ultimate to them to double stack ultimates (corrosive into leap)).

NB is also the only class that has about 4 or 5 viable playstyles in PvP right now:
- Ganker
- Bomber
- Brawler
- Healer
- Hybrid of any of these builds.

Only DK (and maybe warden) really has more than 1 viable build in PvP that's not just a troll tank that can be ignored and even then, that relies on a friend with a specific set-up to make it work. NB is just that strong in PvP right now, especially with how the buffs disguised as "QoL improvements" made the NB class so much easier to play.


Btw, some free ideas for the devs to help NB in PvE that won't make it even more overpowered in PvP while still keeping the assassin theme the devs seem so intent on keeping with their buff decisions:
Veiled Strike: grants minor slayer for 10 seconds on use (surprise attack increases this to major slayer since concealed has the movement speed buff + berserk)
Twisting path: deals 25% more damage to monsters.
Crippling grasp: Causes all NB class abilities to deal 5% more damage to monsters affected by its DoT.

That's easily a 15% buff to NB DPS in PvE + an additional 25% buff to twisting path AoE DoT.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I've said in multiple other threads regarding NB that they need their burst (spec bow/incap) toned down (a lot) and to look at buffing crippling grasp, the DoT from lotus fan and the damage morph of refreshing path to give it better options (some that are also AoE) for PvE that won't break it in PvP (especially considering its burst will be toned down at the same time).

Power extraction is also a decent enough AoE spammable, that applies minor cowardice and grants minor courage giving quite a bit of damage swing when using it, it's just not seen in parses because you don't need those buffs for parsing and there's only 1 target anyway so the AoE is not needed either.

As for sorc itself, it needs a lot as a class to bring it up to par, especially to not force it even further into pets or heavy attack builds which seems to be all the devs will ever buff (that sticks around for more than 1 patch) for sorc.

What sorc needs to move away from pets and heavy attacks and function more on its own as a class would be:

Rune Cage

- Change rune cage into a sticky DoT. It can still keep the 3s delay on the stun attempt, but by making it a sticky DoT that deals consistent damage over its duration it gives sorc a more reliable way to proc the blood magic passive and crit surge proc heal a bit more often.

Frags/fury

- Change frags or 1 morph of fury into a proper class spammable. Sorcs entire burst window is completely back ended with curse and bound armaments for delayed burst, it doesn't need both morphs of frags/weapon and fury to also fall under this condition as well. If need be, make it a shorter range spammable (22m instead of 28m, or even melee if they can do some sort of cool lightning blade type of ability), but it needs to have some sort of cleave (or chaining) component to it as the class just doesn't have that cleave option in its kit at the moment.

Lightning Form

- Buff lightning form (mag morph) to be more inline with hurricane. Lightning form is still only a 5m radius even after all the melee attacks got buffed to 7m meaning melee opponents can simply outrange lightning form to avoid lightning form from proccing crit surge.... This would also be a targeted buff to magsorc in particular since stamsorc would still run hurricane anyway.

Major prophecy/savagery

- Add an easy to obtain reliable source of major prophecy/savagery to the class kit. Sorcs "HoT" in crit surge requires dealing critical damage to proc it, yet sorc struggles to gain any meaningful crit chance in PvP without investing into it and that requires giving up bar space that is too valuable.

Lightning Splash

- Lightning splash needs a rework, if need be, remove the synergy from 1 morph and increase its damage, but most importantly remove or drastically shorten the cast delay on the skill (you can keep the animation, but have it cast the skill at the start of the animation instead of waiting for the animation to finish before casting it similar to how wall of elements is animated), it effectively has a 0.5 to 1 second hidden cast time that is not shown anywhere in the tooltip because of this cast animation (similar to most of sorcs abilities...) that while it looks nice to use when not trying to weave, it makes the skill clunky to use and very jarring to weave properly.

Passives

- The passives need a lot of work. Capacitor is 10% mag recovery, daedric protection is 20% health and stam while a daedric summoning ability is active, meanwhile NB gets a flat 15% to everything for just existing. Combine capacitor with daedric protection and give sorc a new passive for crit chance and/or shields.
- Persistence should work off either blocking or dodging an attack. Sorc is not supposed to sit there face tanking damage since it doesn't have the reliable healing capabilities to do this effectively, sorc is however good at dodging incoming damage.
- Expert mage needs to be increased to 3% per sorcerer ability slotted, why a global passive is stronger than a class passive is boggling....

Lastly, and this is more around helping to address other issues in the PvP meta at the moment, make negate dampen non-permanent buffs on top of preventing casting while enemies are inside its AoE. This means that things like radiating regen, echoing vigor, and other sticky buffs that were applied before entering don't apply their effects while inside the negate, but will resume their effects (assuming they are still active) once the enemy leaves the negate AoE.

This serves multiple purposes:
- It affects stamina builds who right now can easily walk through a negate with no fear of repercussion like it's not even there.
- It gives ball groups a reason to actively avoid those negate areas (including the NPC negates) as their 50k/sec HoT stacking won't tick while they're inside the AoE leaving them vulnerable to getting burst/sieged down if they sit there for too long or try to force their way through it too many times, which provides some actual counter play to that playstyle that has completely taken over PvP lately.
- It forces troll tanks to actually move around (dropping their block while they attempt to get out of it quickly) or avoid certain areas for a period of time instead of standing there blocking everything since if they decide to remain in the negate AoE, their buffs won't be applied making them much weaker and more susceptible to incoming damage should they choose to remain in its AoE.
- This already has inherent counter play. There's no direct CC attached to the negate so its as easy as simply walking (or rolling/sprinting) out of its AoE so it no longer applies, yes it can be used by ball groups, but they are already doing this anyway, so making it actually threatening to those organised groups means they might actually fight each other more often instead of zerging down and dumping 12 ultimates on every solo player they pass while leaving other ball groups alone.
- It has a less drastic effect on the unorganised groups since most of those players barely have many buffs or stacked heals applied to them already anyway so at most they lose major resolve/sorcery/brutality that was already down 50% of them time while they stand in the AoE (might also help them to learn how to kite better too improving their PvP skills).

Anyway, watch this thread get completely ignored just like all the other threads that have asked for sorcs (no pet sorc especially) to be fixed for the past 5+ years.

Yeah as i already said- bow proc is nb's equivalent of arc beam. Its the entire damage basis of nb rotation. You start knocking damage off it then the whole class is dumpstered. Period. Incap can be toned down while buffing dots to make it more manageable.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I've said in multiple other threads regarding NB that they need their burst (spec bow/incap) toned down (a lot) and to look at buffing crippling grasp, the DoT from lotus fan and the damage morph of refreshing path to give it better options (some that are also AoE) for PvE that won't break it in PvP (especially considering its burst will be toned down at the same time).

Power extraction is also a decent enough AoE spammable, that applies minor cowardice and grants minor courage giving quite a bit of damage swing when using it, it's just not seen in parses because you don't need those buffs for parsing and there's only 1 target anyway so the AoE is not needed either.

As for sorc itself, it needs a lot as a class to bring it up to par, especially to not force it even further into pets or heavy attack builds which seems to be all the devs will ever buff (that sticks around for more than 1 patch) for sorc.

What sorc needs to move away from pets and heavy attacks and function more on its own as a class would be:

Rune Cage

- Change rune cage into a sticky DoT. It can still keep the 3s delay on the stun attempt, but by making it a sticky DoT that deals consistent damage over its duration it gives sorc a more reliable way to proc the blood magic passive and crit surge proc heal a bit more often.

Frags/fury

- Change frags or 1 morph of fury into a proper class spammable. Sorcs entire burst window is completely back ended with curse and bound armaments for delayed burst, it doesn't need both morphs of frags/weapon and fury to also fall under this condition as well. If need be, make it a shorter range spammable (22m instead of 28m, or even melee if they can do some sort of cool lightning blade type of ability), but it needs to have some sort of cleave (or chaining) component to it as the class just doesn't have that cleave option in its kit at the moment.

Lightning Form

- Buff lightning form (mag morph) to be more inline with hurricane. Lightning form is still only a 5m radius even after all the melee attacks got buffed to 7m meaning melee opponents can simply outrange lightning form to avoid lightning form from proccing crit surge.... This would also be a targeted buff to magsorc in particular since stamsorc would still run hurricane anyway.

Major prophecy/savagery

- Add an easy to obtain reliable source of major prophecy/savagery to the class kit. Sorcs "HoT" in crit surge requires dealing critical damage to proc it, yet sorc struggles to gain any meaningful crit chance in PvP without investing into it and that requires giving up bar space that is too valuable.

Lightning Splash

- Lightning splash needs a rework, if need be, remove the synergy from 1 morph and increase its damage, but most importantly remove or drastically shorten the cast delay on the skill (you can keep the animation, but have it cast the skill at the start of the animation instead of waiting for the animation to finish before casting it similar to how wall of elements is animated), it effectively has a 0.5 to 1 second hidden cast time that is not shown anywhere in the tooltip because of this cast animation (similar to most of sorcs abilities...) that while it looks nice to use when not trying to weave, it makes the skill clunky to use and very jarring to weave properly.

Passives

- The passives need a lot of work. Capacitor is 10% mag recovery, daedric protection is 20% health and stam while a daedric summoning ability is active, meanwhile NB gets a flat 15% to everything for just existing. Combine capacitor with daedric protection and give sorc a new passive for crit chance and/or shields.
- Persistence should work off either blocking or dodging an attack. Sorc is not supposed to sit there face tanking damage since it doesn't have the reliable healing capabilities to do this effectively, sorc is however good at dodging incoming damage.
- Expert mage needs to be increased to 3% per sorcerer ability slotted, why a global passive is stronger than a class passive is boggling....

Lastly, and this is more around helping to address other issues in the PvP meta at the moment, make negate dampen non-permanent buffs on top of preventing casting while enemies are inside its AoE. This means that things like radiating regen, echoing vigor, and other sticky buffs that were applied before entering don't apply their effects while inside the negate, but will resume their effects (assuming they are still active) once the enemy leaves the negate AoE.

This serves multiple purposes:
- It affects stamina builds who right now can easily walk through a negate with no fear of repercussion like it's not even there.
- It gives ball groups a reason to actively avoid those negate areas (including the NPC negates) as their 50k/sec HoT stacking won't tick while they're inside the AoE leaving them vulnerable to getting burst/sieged down if they sit there for too long or try to force their way through it too many times, which provides some actual counter play to that playstyle that has completely taken over PvP lately.
- It forces troll tanks to actually move around (dropping their block while they attempt to get out of it quickly) or avoid certain areas for a period of time instead of standing there blocking everything since if they decide to remain in the negate AoE, their buffs won't be applied making them much weaker and more susceptible to incoming damage should they choose to remain in its AoE.
- This already has inherent counter play. There's no direct CC attached to the negate so its as easy as simply walking (or rolling/sprinting) out of its AoE so it no longer applies, yes it can be used by ball groups, but they are already doing this anyway, so making it actually threatening to those organised groups means they might actually fight each other more often instead of zerging down and dumping 12 ultimates on every solo player they pass while leaving other ball groups alone.
- It has a less drastic effect on the unorganised groups since most of those players barely have many buffs or stacked heals applied to them already anyway so at most they lose major resolve/sorcery/brutality that was already down 50% of them time while they stand in the AoE (might also help them to learn how to kite better too improving their PvP skills).

Anyway, watch this thread get completely ignored just like all the other threads that have asked for sorcs (no pet sorc especially) to be fixed for the past 5+ years.

Yeah as i already said- bow proc is nb's equivalent of arc beam. Its the entire damage basis of nb rotation. You start knocking damage off it then the whole class is dumpstered. Period. Incap can be toned down while buffing dots to make it more manageable.

TBF, with the changes I proposed earlier:

Veiled Strike: grants minor slayer for 10 seconds on use (surprise attack increases this to major slayer since concealed has the movement speed buff + berserk)
Twisting path: deals 25% more damage to monsters.
Crippling grasp: Causes all NB class abilities to deal 5% more damage to monsters affected by its DoT.

That's easily a 15% buff to NB DPS in PvE + an additional 25% buff to twisting path AoE DoT.

You could easily knock 15% off bow and incaps tooltips and still not have it affect PvE since they would hit just as hard there as they currently do, but now NB would have buffs class DoTs and surprise attack for PvE, so those abilities would not change in PvE even with the 15% nerf, it would only affect PvP where lets face it, hitting someone for 20k+ (I have seen and heard about 30k and 35k+ spec bows too) really needs toning down a lot.

The duration of twisting path would have to be extended. As it is its damn near impossible to keep up in a basic rotation at its current duration as it is. you are also now creating a situation where you need to effectively keep all dots up beginning to end of the fight which means your execute spammable is not being used as much so damage loss there one way or the other - as far as damage: minor slayer is useless as you get that from all trial sets and major slayer you will always get in a raid comp (as well as on a dummy) so not only is it not useful but it would skew parses as well. Unless major slayer was given as a group buff for a significant duration which would actually make it viable for a comp it would be garbage. Either way it would still skew your parse numbers very badly.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I've said in multiple other threads regarding NB that they need their burst (spec bow/incap) toned down (a lot) and to look at buffing crippling grasp, the DoT from lotus fan and the damage morph of refreshing path to give it better options (some that are also AoE) for PvE that won't break it in PvP (especially considering its burst will be toned down at the same time).

Power extraction is also a decent enough AoE spammable, that applies minor cowardice and grants minor courage giving quite a bit of damage swing when using it, it's just not seen in parses because you don't need those buffs for parsing and there's only 1 target anyway so the AoE is not needed either.

As for sorc itself, it needs a lot as a class to bring it up to par, especially to not force it even further into pets or heavy attack builds which seems to be all the devs will ever buff (that sticks around for more than 1 patch) for sorc.

What sorc needs to move away from pets and heavy attacks and function more on its own as a class would be:

Rune Cage

- Change rune cage into a sticky DoT. It can still keep the 3s delay on the stun attempt, but by making it a sticky DoT that deals consistent damage over its duration it gives sorc a more reliable way to proc the blood magic passive and crit surge proc heal a bit more often.

Frags/fury

- Change frags or 1 morph of fury into a proper class spammable. Sorcs entire burst window is completely back ended with curse and bound armaments for delayed burst, it doesn't need both morphs of frags/weapon and fury to also fall under this condition as well. If need be, make it a shorter range spammable (22m instead of 28m, or even melee if they can do some sort of cool lightning blade type of ability), but it needs to have some sort of cleave (or chaining) component to it as the class just doesn't have that cleave option in its kit at the moment.

Lightning Form

- Buff lightning form (mag morph) to be more inline with hurricane. Lightning form is still only a 5m radius even after all the melee attacks got buffed to 7m meaning melee opponents can simply outrange lightning form to avoid lightning form from proccing crit surge.... This would also be a targeted buff to magsorc in particular since stamsorc would still run hurricane anyway.

Major prophecy/savagery

- Add an easy to obtain reliable source of major prophecy/savagery to the class kit. Sorcs "HoT" in crit surge requires dealing critical damage to proc it, yet sorc struggles to gain any meaningful crit chance in PvP without investing into it and that requires giving up bar space that is too valuable.

Lightning Splash

- Lightning splash needs a rework, if need be, remove the synergy from 1 morph and increase its damage, but most importantly remove or drastically shorten the cast delay on the skill (you can keep the animation, but have it cast the skill at the start of the animation instead of waiting for the animation to finish before casting it similar to how wall of elements is animated), it effectively has a 0.5 to 1 second hidden cast time that is not shown anywhere in the tooltip because of this cast animation (similar to most of sorcs abilities...) that while it looks nice to use when not trying to weave, it makes the skill clunky to use and very jarring to weave properly.

Passives

- The passives need a lot of work. Capacitor is 10% mag recovery, daedric protection is 20% health and stam while a daedric summoning ability is active, meanwhile NB gets a flat 15% to everything for just existing. Combine capacitor with daedric protection and give sorc a new passive for crit chance and/or shields.
- Persistence should work off either blocking or dodging an attack. Sorc is not supposed to sit there face tanking damage since it doesn't have the reliable healing capabilities to do this effectively, sorc is however good at dodging incoming damage.
- Expert mage needs to be increased to 3% per sorcerer ability slotted, why a global passive is stronger than a class passive is boggling....

Lastly, and this is more around helping to address other issues in the PvP meta at the moment, make negate dampen non-permanent buffs on top of preventing casting while enemies are inside its AoE. This means that things like radiating regen, echoing vigor, and other sticky buffs that were applied before entering don't apply their effects while inside the negate, but will resume their effects (assuming they are still active) once the enemy leaves the negate AoE.

This serves multiple purposes:
- It affects stamina builds who right now can easily walk through a negate with no fear of repercussion like it's not even there.
- It gives ball groups a reason to actively avoid those negate areas (including the NPC negates) as their 50k/sec HoT stacking won't tick while they're inside the AoE leaving them vulnerable to getting burst/sieged down if they sit there for too long or try to force their way through it too many times, which provides some actual counter play to that playstyle that has completely taken over PvP lately.
- It forces troll tanks to actually move around (dropping their block while they attempt to get out of it quickly) or avoid certain areas for a period of time instead of standing there blocking everything since if they decide to remain in the negate AoE, their buffs won't be applied making them much weaker and more susceptible to incoming damage should they choose to remain in its AoE.
- This already has inherent counter play. There's no direct CC attached to the negate so its as easy as simply walking (or rolling/sprinting) out of its AoE so it no longer applies, yes it can be used by ball groups, but they are already doing this anyway, so making it actually threatening to those organised groups means they might actually fight each other more often instead of zerging down and dumping 12 ultimates on every solo player they pass while leaving other ball groups alone.
- It has a less drastic effect on the unorganised groups since most of those players barely have many buffs or stacked heals applied to them already anyway so at most they lose major resolve/sorcery/brutality that was already down 50% of them time while they stand in the AoE (might also help them to learn how to kite better too improving their PvP skills).

Anyway, watch this thread get completely ignored just like all the other threads that have asked for sorcs (no pet sorc especially) to be fixed for the past 5+ years.

Yeah as i already said- bow proc is nb's equivalent of arc beam. Its the entire damage basis of nb rotation. You start knocking damage off it then the whole class is dumpstered. Period. Incap can be toned down while buffing dots to make it more manageable.

TBF, with the changes I proposed earlier:

Veiled Strike: grants minor slayer for 10 seconds on use (surprise attack increases this to major slayer since concealed has the movement speed buff + berserk)
Twisting path: deals 25% more damage to monsters.
Crippling grasp: Causes all NB class abilities to deal 5% more damage to monsters affected by its DoT.

That's easily a 15% buff to NB DPS in PvE + an additional 25% buff to twisting path AoE DoT.

You could easily knock 15% off bow and incaps tooltips and still not have it affect PvE since they would hit just as hard there as they currently do, but now NB would have buffs class DoTs and surprise attack for PvE, so those abilities would not change in PvE even with the 15% nerf, it would only affect PvP where lets face it, hitting someone for 20k+ (I have seen and heard about 30k and 35k+ spec bows too) really needs toning down a lot.

The duration of twisting path would have to be extended. As it is its damn near impossible to keep up in a basic rotation at its current duration as it is. you are also now creating a situation where you need to effectively keep all dots up beginning to end of the fight which means your spammable is not being used as much so damage loss there one way or the other - as far as damage: minor slayer is useless as you get that from all trial sets and major slayer you will always get in a raid comp (as well as on a dummy) so not only is it not useful but it would scew parses as well. Unless major slayer was given as a group buff for a significant duration it would be garbage. additionally no one uses vailed in a rotation or in a boss fight its effectively pvp only, heck i dont know anyone who uses lotus fan period, its wonky to use in content, exceptionally buggy, and Lotus fan would still be stupidly weak.

Veiled is the pre-morph of surprise attack and concealed weapon, it's the NB spammable and it would be giving slayer for free on both morphs (with major on surprise).

Twisting path is not the only 10s duration DoT in the game, sure it could be 15s but its also not the hardest thing to keep up, try keeping daedric prey up when that skill does nothing for 6 seconds, only hits once and requires perfect timing every 6 seconds or your dps drops massively because everything is loaded into prey + pets and the class spammable has a cast time on top of this too.

Not sure where I mentioned lotus fan? I mentioned crippling grasp (single target sticky dot) that as far as I can tell is not buggy and would have a unique (stacking) 5% damage buff.

Incap also keeps its debuff as well (so thats 20% there), bow still has its +300/350 damage from stacks, the passives are all still there too.

Consider this. Incap is an 8 second window, after you hit it you will do a min of 5 light attacks and 5 skills including your bow proc 2×, that leaves you down to the wire while you try and balance that with an assortment of timers anywhere from 10 -30secs while swapping back and forth for proc after every 5th. Path will always fall off at some point.

As far as lotus i brought it up because i misread that skill you were talking about buffing. Which was my mistake.

Sorry but this sounds like me before I started realizing how bra1ndead Easy it is to play magSorc compared to Nightblade

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Yerp. Frags, frags, frags, prey, frags, frags, frags, prey, frags, frags, frags, prey, other dots, frags.... Thats basically it. The only truly annoying part is the opening with overload. Thats it.

Like ma dude if you think literally anything about playing a blade is easy, any part of the rotation, you have never played it on at a high level.

I agree. I love my NB, she's so very versatile, but it's taken me a very long time to learn to use this class properly.