[POSSIBLE BUG/NOT WORKING?] CP Point Plentiful Harvest (green tree)

AnduinTryggva · January 2023

I have made a test on the CP Plentiful Harvest and invested CP points to increase double yield probability to 30% when harvesting a ressource node. I have slotted it and confirmed it. Then I went out and farmed nodes. As I was looking primarily for heartwood at the moment I have farmed wood in priority but also other nodes as well. I counted each node harvested and in a separate column I counted when I got a double yield. As double yield I counted those nodes where I got 5 or more of the base ressource. I also counted all cases of double side ressource such as heartwood (minimum 2 side ressource, e.g. 2 heartwood). So I counted cases where I got 3 woods and 2 heartwoods as one double wield and cases where I got 6 woods and 2 heartwoods as two double yields.

Now here is my statistics:
Nodes harvested: 378 (320 woods, 58 other)
Double harvest: 91 (82 woods, 9 other)

If I calculate the occurance of double yield, I end up with not even 25% of double yield. And this is a generous estimation as I counted every time of 2 heartwood or regulus etc. as an extra double yield but which occurs also without this cp.

So I think we are far off the 30% that I should expect from the CP.

I think it is worth to check if the drop rates are correctly set.

virtus753 · January 2023

It has always been less than it says. At max value (supposedly 50%), it gives maybe 40% double pull rate at most.

@ZOS_Kevin You kindly went to check on this issue well over a year ago. It has been about 18 months, actually. Can we please get some sort of update? It is not clear how 50% could possibly mean 40%, but still we have received no acknowledgement about this and whether it’s working as intended or not.

Stinkyremy · January 2023

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

So I counted cases where I got 3 woods and 2 heartwoods as one double wield and cases where I got 6 woods and 2 heartwoods as two double yields.

That is not how it is though only the 6 woods would have been a double node. Furniture mats do not get affected by the perk as that perk was there before furniture was even added to the game, in the old CP tree.

AnduinTryggva · January 2023

Stinkyremy wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

So I counted cases where I got 3 woods and 2 heartwoods as one double wield and cases where I got 6 woods and 2 heartwoods as two double yields.

That is not how it is though only the 6 woods would have been a double node. Furniture mats do not get affected by the perk as that perk was there before furniture was even added to the game, in the old CP tree.

Thanks for pointing this out, I was not aware of this as I am pretty new to this forum.

This makes my evaluation even more optimistic and my drop rate would worsen.

virtus753 · January 2023

Stinkyremy wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

So I counted cases where I got 3 woods and 2 heartwoods as one double wield and cases where I got 6 woods and 2 heartwoods as two double yields.

That is not how it is though only the 6 woods would have been a double node. Furniture mats do not get affected by the perk as that perk was there before furniture was even added to the game, in the old CP tree.

Yes, furniture mats do get affected by the perk. I have gotten 3 heartwood out of a single node, and the only way that is possible is if I rolled a 2 and rolled again for a 1 (or in the reverse order). It is otherwise not possible to draw more than 2 heartwood from a single node, in my experience. (ETA: other than during an extra resource event, which was not the case here.)

Nirncrux is also affected by it. You can draw double nirn (or one fortified and one potent) out of a single node in Craglorn.

ETA #2: Just pulled 4 Heartwood out of a single runestone in Rivenspire (so unaffected by the current Elsewyr event). That's clearly Plentiful Harvest giving me double pulls of Heartwood.

Zodiarkslayer · January 2023

To understand the problem you need to look at how harvesting a node is done in ESO.
The normal calculation has a RNG attached to it. A random number between 3 or 4 is chosen as your normal yield. And then the game RNGs you the chance for housing mats and then for other random items (Worms, Aetherial Dust, etc.). These events have specific probabilities and cannot be influenced.

At max stages of CP Plentiful Harvest a player gets a 50% chance for a second harvesting of the node, not a flat out double yield. That means if you get 3 raw wood in the first normal roll, you can get three or four in the second. Instead of a guaranteed 6 raw wood from double yield you actually have a chance at 7. That is better than expected isn't it?

virtus753 · January 2023

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

To understand the problem you need to look at how harvesting a node is done in ESO.
The normal calculation has a RNG attached to it. A random number between 3 or 4 is chosen as your normal yield. And then the game RNGs you the chance for housing mats and then for other random items (Worms, Aetherial Dust, etc.). These events have specific probabilities and cannot be influenced.

At max stages of CP Plentiful Harvest a player gets a 50% chance for a second harvesting of the node, not a flat out double yield. That means if you get 3 raw wood in the first normal roll, you can get three or four in the second. Instead of a guaranteed 6 raw wood from double yield you actually have a chance at 7. That is better than expected isn't it?

We know this. We have also shown over many thousands of draws that the pull number is not doubling as promised. Not looking at total resources but pulls.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564705/plentiful-harvest-cp-star-underperforming

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/566457/plentiful-harvest-passive-does-not-equal-50-tested#latest

AnduinTryggva · January 2023

I am currently farming Elsweyr due to the event. While other node types have a normal yield of regulus etc, It seems this is not the case for heartwood. Did the droprate drop during event? From the sample it is more like far less than 10% than the usual 20%.

Mortuus126 · August 2023

virtus753 wrote: »

ETA #2: Just pulled 4 Heartwood out of a single runestone in Rivenspire (so unaffected by the current Elsewyr event). That's clearly Plentiful Harvest giving me double pulls of Heartwood.

How do you pull heartwood from a runestone? Thinking there might be something else at play if you're doing that... 🤔

tmbrinks · August 2023

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/640271/plentiful-harvest-bug#latest

it's still not working. Still not a word from the developers. It's been YEARS that this has existed.

AlwaysDancing · August 2023

If you are going to bring 8 month old topics back from the dead, provide some real data.

Harvest 500,000 wood nodes, in the same zone without the CP slotted. You cannot do anything else, or harvest anything else as that may 'shift' the RNG slider. Ideally you would want to do this in one play session, but this might prove uncomfortable.
Provide the number of wood received and this will be your unmodified base drop rate.

Slot the CP, then harvest the same 500,000 wood nodes in the same zone, using the exact same parameters as your base test. This will then give you the boosted drop rate.

This should give us enough data to determine if the tool tip is accurate, or if there is some background shenanigans.

tmbrinks · August 2023

AlwaysDancing wrote: »

If you are going to bring 8 month old topics back from the dead, provide some real data.

Harvest 500,000 wood nodes, in the same zone without the CP slotted. You cannot do anything else, or harvest anything else as that may 'shift' the RNG slider. Ideally you would want to do this in one play session, but this might prove uncomfortable.
Provide the number of wood received and this will be your unmodified base drop rate.

Slot the CP, then harvest the same 500,000 wood nodes in the same zone, using the exact same parameters as your base test. This will then give you the boosted drop rate.

This should give us enough data to determine if the tool tip is accurate, or if there is some background shenanigans.

500,000 is far more than what you need to be able to make sound statistical conclusions. Polls involving 1000 people have margins of error of ~3%, so if you're getting 40% when it should be 50%, this is statistically relevant.

(I'm regularly frustrated at posters who post anecdotal evidence or evidence with too small of sample sizes, but 500k is an utter absurd number)

In my report in the bugs subforum, I did the analysis, and they were both at a statistically significance of more than 4 standard deviations, far higher than most requirements for determining significance in research. (Some exceptions for physics experiments happening requiring 5 standard deviations above expected)

virtus753 · August 2023

Mortuus126 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

ETA #2: Just pulled 4 Heartwood out of a single runestone in Rivenspire (so unaffected by the current Elsewyr event). That's clearly Plentiful Harvest giving me double pulls of Heartwood.

How do you pull heartwood from a runestone? Thinking there might be something else at play if you're doing that... 🤔

Obviously by typing too quickly. It was a wood node.

ZOS_Icy · August 2023

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Bug Reports section, as it is better suited there.

Thank you for your understanding.