Tales of Tribute Requires Luck. I have no luck, therefore I'll always lose.

twistedodean14 · June 2023

I have no issue with RNG in the game. It is what it is. However, there is a few things I've noticed. First one is that the game rewards bad plays. I've seen players make horrendous plays, even when those plays are extremely obvious. Only for the next turn, to be rewarded with a better hand. Or they get the perfect cards to pull off the best plays. And so the RNG seem skewed. The other thing I've noticed is that the game tends to pick its winner right off the bat. There are circumstances where my opponents do not convert a single gold card for 4-6 turns. But for some reason keep getting the cards they purchased from the tavern and almost no 1 gold cards and no they were not using the psijic deck. As a result depending on the deck they are using in 3-4 turns end-up with 25-30 prestige. Now, it doesn't matter what strategy I use to counter or get a head. The game allows my opponents to draw the perfect cards needed to win or the tavern provides multiple cards they need. That is frustrating. What is even more frustrating, is when players get cards and combos that generate an insane amount of power or gold. Enough to end the game right away but doesn't, mainly because they didn't even notice.

I feel like I'm being punished for being decent at the game. Because in rare moments where I actually draw cards or get decent cards in the tavern, it's enough for me to pull off a win. In the extremely rare moments were ill get good draws with the ability to actually use combos. The matches do not last very long.

That all of that said. Whatever RNG system is being used needs to be equal for both players. Not one. There are days where I'll lose 10 to 15 matches in row. And it's simply because other players have better RNG. And that doesn't matter if they are good or bad at the game. My friends didn't believe me, so in our discord chat I shared my screen. And they were mortified by the cards I get to play with when I draw and get in the tavern.

So until this change is made, I'm done playing tales of tribute. I actually thikg its a fun card game, but the games feel rigged. And even though I made it to rubedite (which is not a fun experience) it doesn't feel rewarding. I know my suggested change will most likely not be considered or implemented. So chances are I'm done playing tales of tribute.

Treeshka · June 2023

Well card game is always like this. It is no fun at all when you are not lucky. Sometimes your opponent gets five Crow cards when their twenty cards deck is reshuffled and with those Crow cards they play their entire deck.

jaws343 · June 2023

I wonder if what you are actually seeing is the Amelexia deck in play here.

The deck allows you to draw and discard, which gives the illusion that a player isn't getting 1 coin cards, when in reality, they are discarding them and drawing another card. Pair that with the psijic deck, that also allows discard, and the Crow deck that allows drawing, and with only a slight setup, you can draw your entire deck in one turn without playing any coin cards out.

twistedodean14 · June 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

I wonder if what you are actually seeing is the Amelexia deck in play here.

The deck allows you to draw and discard, which gives the illusion that a player isn't getting 1 coin cards, when in reality, they are discarding them and drawing another card. Pair that with the psijic deck, that also allows discard, and the Crow deck that allows drawing, and with only a slight setup, you can draw your entire deck in one turn without playing any coin cards out.

The things I experienced was happening before the new deck came out. And these situations happened independent of the psijic deck. I have the new Amelexia deck. And it's pretty good and have helped me pull off wins where my opponents are blessed by RNG. Confiscating their cards and effectively stripping away their ability to pull off combos. Once I notice a certain pattern when it comes to the cards my opponent draws and get in the tavern, I focus on refining my deck.

The strategy I use, It's not about targeting specific color cards, it's more so taking away enough of each color that make it hard to get combos. But the game counters this by constantly giving my opponent quickplay cards (in the tavern) needed to either pull off a combo, stack insane amounts of power or ones that kill all of my agents. Multiple times on multiple turns. Honestly if feels like I'm playing against the RNG Computer vs actual people.

twistedodean14 · June 2023

Treeshka wrote: »

Well card game is always like this. It is no fun at all when you are not lucky. Sometimes your opponent gets five Crow cards when their twenty cards deck is reshuffled and with those Crow cards they play their entire deck.

Yup, seen it. lol

Seraphayel · July 2023

Treeshka wrote: »

Well card game is always like this. It is no fun at all when you are not lucky. Sometimes your opponent gets five Crow cards when their twenty cards deck is reshuffled and with those Crow cards they play their entire deck.

Every card game might be dependent on draw luck, but ToT has some other factors that come into play. You cannot build your own deck. You don’t play with your own deck. And if there is a strategy, it‘s completely dependent on your draw luck and how the tavern is provided with cards.

All of Tales is generated randomly. If there are two strong cards in the first round for 4/5 coins, the first player can easily get both of them. This alone gives them a huge advantage already. If the tavern then is stacked with high cost cards people cannot afford in the first 3-4 rounds, the second player always has a disadvantage.

I think what would help is to limit the levels of the tavern cards for the first round. So the maximum cost level in the very first round for both players is like 4 or 5 (so cards may only cost 4 or 5 coins or less). That way it‘s more likely for both players to at least get one or two cards from the tavern without one player blocking the other off. It would create a more equal playing field instead of one player getting the cheap cards and then the other player getting absolutely nothing.

NoSoup · July 2023

While there is definitely a level of luck / rng involved I don't believe it has as big of a bearing on the outcome of a game as to skill. I would put maybe 2 out of 10 games I win or lose down to the luck of the draw and the other 8 out of 10 games to one player making smarter choices.

Seraphayel · July 2023

NoSoup wrote: »

While there is definitely a level of luck / rng involved I don't believe it has as big of a bearing on the outcome of a game as to skill. I would put maybe 2 out of 10 games I win or lose down to the luck of the draw and the other 8 out of 10 games to one player making smarter choices.

But making smart choices all boils down to a) the cards you draw and b) the cards that are dealt in the tavern. And both of them are RNG unless you play a deck that manipulates your drawing - tavern is still completely random and can be busted or completely useless.

NoSoup · July 2023

Seraphayel wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

While there is definitely a level of luck / rng involved I don't believe it has as big of a bearing on the outcome of a game as to skill. I would put maybe 2 out of 10 games I win or lose down to the luck of the draw and the other 8 out of 10 games to one player making smarter choices.

But making smart choices all boils down to a) the cards you draw and b) the cards that are dealt in the tavern. And both of them are RNG unless you play a deck that manipulates your drawing - tavern is still completely random and can be busted or completely useless.

While the Tavern and your cards delt may be random you always have the ability to know what cards your oppoenant has & what cards they have left to draw from before their hand is reshuffled. This gives you plenty of opportunity to know what cards you need to be focusing on to beat them. The game also gives you the options for controlling/mitigating RNG (psijic/alamexia/red eagle & anasi) all bring abilities to the table to create predicable draws while the other patrons focus on power at the risk of rng. For that matter, Psijic would have to be the most under-rated patron in the game because of the ability it gives you to cycle through your deck.

You're never going to be able to remove the luck/RNG factor from a game like this, but to say it's the defining element in being able to win a game or not is so far off the mark its not funny. The season leaderboard highlights this with the score the top of the table players get. If RNG was the biggest factor in determining who wins then no-one would get over 1000 points in a season.

the1andonlyskwex · July 2023

Nobody's luck is always bad. If you're consistently losing a lot of games it's much more likely to be a skill issue than a luck issue.

Eliran · July 2023

The problem is not luck, its that there is an algorithm that force you to have 50 50 win/lose ratio ..

Therefore, you can be best player EU, sometimes the game forcefully let someone win and choose you as victim cause they had lose streak and you had win streak.

Every online card games like ToT have this stupid system to promote "addiction" which is very un-natural in real life.

Sometimes its just too obvious it makes you ask why even bother, also I found out that if you've been chosen to lose and you concede a match, the system decide to keep punishing you and you will have incredibly bad luck the next game afterwards as well.

Honestly, who ever programmed it made me want to never play this game rather than keep playing it.

NoSoup · July 2023

Eliran wrote: »

The problem is not luck, its that there is an algorithm that force you to have 50 50 win/lose ratio ..

Therefore, you can be best player EU, sometimes the game forcefully let someone win and choose you as victim cause they had lose streak and you had win streak.

Every online card games like ToT have this stupid system to promote "addiction" which is very un-natural in real life.

Sometimes its just too obvious it makes you ask why even bother, also I found out that if you've been chosen to lose and you concede a match, the system decide to keep punishing you and you will have incredibly bad luck the next game afterwards as well.

Honestly, who ever programmed it made me want to never play this game rather than keep playing it.

This is completely false information.

Seraphayel · July 2023

NoSoup wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

While there is definitely a level of luck / rng involved I don't believe it has as big of a bearing on the outcome of a game as to skill. I would put maybe 2 out of 10 games I win or lose down to the luck of the draw and the other 8 out of 10 games to one player making smarter choices.

But making smart choices all boils down to a) the cards you draw and b) the cards that are dealt in the tavern. And both of them are RNG unless you play a deck that manipulates your drawing - tavern is still completely random and can be busted or completely useless.

While the Tavern and your cards delt may be random you always have the ability to know what cards your oppoenant has & what cards they have left to draw from before their hand is reshuffled. This gives you plenty of opportunity to know what cards you need to be focusing on to beat them. The game also gives you the options for controlling/mitigating RNG (psijic/alamexia/red eagle & anasi) all bring abilities to the table to create predicable draws while the other patrons focus on power at the risk of rng. For that matter, Psijic would have to be the most under-rated patron in the game because of the ability it gives you to cycle through your deck.

You're never going to be able to remove the luck/RNG factor from a game like this, but to say it's the defining element in being able to win a game or not is so far off the mark its not funny. The season leaderboard highlights this with the score the top of the table players get. If RNG was the biggest factor in determining who wins then no-one would get over 1000 points in a season.

Again, if the tavern cards for you suck and you‘re on a streak of bad luck, there‘s no way to counter this. Tavern cards are crucial for your deck building abilities and if the game plays against you there, winning becomes almost impossible. A win is determined by who gets the better tavern cards and can then play out their strategy not by the skill of the player. Skill only applies when you’re able to build your base deck which utilizes your strategy.

IncultaWolf · July 2023

It's laughable how rng based this game is, I play in the top 100 ranked and the winner is determined 80% of the time by who got the good tavern card first and it usually ends with that player winning because they got 1 good card before the opponent, and can control the rest of the game. I've gone against people in the top 10 and if I get a very strong card first turn and the tavern is filled with trash, they will just leave the match because they know it's already a lost. Oh what's that you got grand larceny first turn? Well you win pretty much every time if there's nothing else decent in the tavern. Same goes with armory.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

NoSoup wrote: »

While there is definitely a level of luck / rng involved I don't believe it has as big of a bearing on the outcome of a game as to skill. I would put maybe 2 out of 10 games I win or lose down to the luck of the draw and the other 8 out of 10 games to one player making smarter choices.

The other day I was battling a player who had better early draw luck but I was overcoming it with good play. And then I made a mistake that I knew was a mistake that had cost me the game the second I did it. The other player had made the mistake of activating crow way too in the game. I meant to sacrifice a card to Hllalu but turned crow instead. I knew they had a big crow coin combo likely about to pop, so I knew that I shouldn't have turned crow but instead sacrificed my Hllalu agent for 10. That would have let me win, most likely, barring insane luck from contract cards.

Instead I lost by 2 points.

Definitely a loss because I made a mistake, not because RNG was impossible to overcome.

Seraphayel · July 2023

Crow + RNG is basically impossible to overcome. As soon as one player gets to play out those combos you can basically quit the game. I just lost three matches because of that. When it was my turn to choose from the tavern (round 1 and 2) all of the cheap cards were gone and I couldn’t do anything. The other guy already got two crow cards and luxury export from the tavern. I thought I give it a shot and still try, guess what, the next round he could already generate 6 gold to get those uber crow cards while I was still converting cards because I couldn’t get anything from the tavern. And then those crow combos kept rolling and I couldn’t do anything. This type of scenario happened to me right now in three games in a row. My fault? I doubt it, because it’s not on my to decide which cards are placed in the tavern. This has nothing to do with skill.

NoSoup · July 2023

Seraphayel wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

While there is definitely a level of luck / rng involved I don't believe it has as big of a bearing on the outcome of a game as to skill. I would put maybe 2 out of 10 games I win or lose down to the luck of the draw and the other 8 out of 10 games to one player making smarter choices.

But making smart choices all boils down to a) the cards you draw and b) the cards that are dealt in the tavern. And both of them are RNG unless you play a deck that manipulates your drawing - tavern is still completely random and can be busted or completely useless.

While the Tavern and your cards delt may be random you always have the ability to know what cards your oppoenant has & what cards they have left to draw from before their hand is reshuffled. This gives you plenty of opportunity to know what cards you need to be focusing on to beat them. The game also gives you the options for controlling/mitigating RNG (psijic/alamexia/red eagle & anasi) all bring abilities to the table to create predicable draws while the other patrons focus on power at the risk of rng. For that matter, Psijic would have to be the most under-rated patron in the game because of the ability it gives you to cycle through your deck.

You're never going to be able to remove the luck/RNG factor from a game like this, but to say it's the defining element in being able to win a game or not is so far off the mark its not funny. The season leaderboard highlights this with the score the top of the table players get. If RNG was the biggest factor in determining who wins then no-one would get over 1000 points in a season.

Again, if the tavern cards for you suck and you‘re on a streak of bad luck, there‘s no way to counter this. Tavern cards are crucial for your deck building abilities and if the game plays against you there, winning becomes almost impossible. A win is determined by who gets the better tavern cards and can then play out their strategy not by the skill of the player. Skill only applies when you’re able to build your base deck which utilizes your strategy.

If the Tavern card's you get on your round suck, or don't suit the strategy you are going for then just leave them there. I will never buy a card unless it is one of my "priority" cards if it means not being able to counter the next card that gets put into the tavern. Just because you have gold doesn't mean you need to spend it. This is where players create their own luck. If you are buying for the sake of buying you are just filling your hand with rubbish while giving your opponent a much higher chance of getting good cards. It's skill, not luck.

Seraphayel · July 2023

Look at this picture. I mean I got lucky because it was obviously a new player because he didn’t tanke any of the Luxury Exports. But that whole tavern was completely insane. This is RNG. And if this happens, the odds of the player winning who can’t make use of this, are very, very slim. With Crow cards it‘s even worse when they get them early on and just can spam combos and shuffle through their deck. These situations happen way to often and you just sit there and can’t do anything.

NoSoup · July 2023

Seraphayel wrote: »

Look at this picture. I mean I got lucky because it was obviously a new player because he didn’t tanke any of the Luxury Exports. But that whole tavern was completely insane. This is RNG. And if this happens, the odds of the player winning who can’t make use of this, are very, very slim. With Crow cards it‘s even worse when they get them early on and just can spam combos and shuffle through their deck. These situations happen way to often and you just sit there and can’t do anything.

At that stage of the game it's still anyone's hand. Your opponent has the opportunity to grab one of them leaving you with the possibility of having one more than he does. If the opponent doesn't pick one up and you grab all three that is not "luck" it's poor choices.

Seraphayel · July 2023

NoSoup wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Look at this picture. I mean I got lucky because it was obviously a new player because he didn’t tanke any of the Luxury Exports. But that whole tavern was completely insane. This is RNG. And if this happens, the odds of the player winning who can’t make use of this, are very, very slim. With Crow cards it‘s even worse when they get them early on and just can spam combos and shuffle through their deck. These situations happen way to often and you just sit there and can’t do anything.

At that stage of the game it's still anyone's hand. Your opponent has the opportunity to grab one of them leaving you with the possibility of having one more than he does. If the opponent doesn't pick one up and you grab all three that is not "luck" it's poor choices.

You don’t seem to understand the difference between skill (choices) and luck (RNG). As I said, it must have been a new player in this case, but this picture isn’t about the other player, it‘s about card compositions in the tavern that can completely change the course of the entire game for one side. That‘s the epitome of RNG.

If someone gets two Luxury Exports in round 1, they have such an advantage already that it will be very hard to catch up. Impossible? No. But it‘s heavily skewed right from that point.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that all of ToT is RNG based. But these situations can be so detrimental to one side that playing catch up becomes your own strategy while the enemy has a very easy time to make use of it - this is were skill helps to widen the gap even further, but if the RNG god already plays against you that’s not even necessary.

I know that both sides can benefit by these situations, but it’s frustrating when it completely stops any strategy you could have come up with.

IncultaWolf · July 2023

Crow + red eagle is still rng who gets the most purple cards first, even after the nerf 🙃

NoSoup · July 2023

Seraphayel wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Look at this picture. I mean I got lucky because it was obviously a new player because he didn’t tanke any of the Luxury Exports. But that whole tavern was completely insane. This is RNG. And if this happens, the odds of the player winning who can’t make use of this, are very, very slim. With Crow cards it‘s even worse when they get them early on and just can spam combos and shuffle through their deck. These situations happen way to often and you just sit there and can’t do anything.

At that stage of the game it's still anyone's hand. Your opponent has the opportunity to grab one of them leaving you with the possibility of having one more than he does. If the opponent doesn't pick one up and you grab all three that is not "luck" it's poor choices.

You don’t seem to understand the difference between skill (choices) and luck (RNG). As I said, it must have been a new player in this case, but this picture isn’t about the other player, it‘s about card compositions in the tavern that can completely change the course of the entire game for one side. That‘s the epitome of RNG.

If someone gets two Luxury Exports in round 1, they have such an advantage already that it will be very hard to catch up. Impossible? No. But it‘s heavily skewed right from that point.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that all of ToT is RNG based. But these situations can be so detrimental to one side that playing catch up becomes your own strategy while the enemy has a very easy time to make use of it - this is were skill helps to widen the gap even further, but if the RNG god already plays against you that’s not even necessary.

I know that both sides can benefit by these situations, but it’s frustrating when it completely stops any strategy you could have come up with.

Well as I said in my initial reply to this thread there is always going to be an RNG element, you can't remove it and as I said above I would put about 2 out 10 games won or lost down purely to the RNG. I never said you're not going to lose games due to RNG. What I disagree with is the impact of RNG on your ability to win. With the way some people are carrying on in here you would think RNG determines the outcome of the majority of games, when it doesn't. Skill and smart choices still win more games than pure luck of the draw.

quinancia · July 2023

"That all of that said. Whatever RNG system is being used needs to be equal for both players. Not one. There are days where I'll lose 10 to 15 matches in row. And it's simply because other players have better RNG. And that doesn't matter if they are good or bad at the game. My friends didn't believe me, so in our discord chat I shared my screen. And they were mortified by the cards I get to play with when I draw and get in the tavern.

So until this change is made, I'm done playing tales of tribute."

So, It sounds like the devs have rigged the RNG to be against you and for other players.

You are not playing TOT until the devs reverse the negative RNG you are experiencing.