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Fantastic job with Arcanist class! PLEASE don't nerf!
Quackery
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ZOS, you've done a fantastic job creating this class! I'm having so much fun using it in PvE with all these different skills and abilities. Please, don't bring the nerf hammer down on this class!!
Edited by ZOS_Icy on 19 June 2023 16:24 13
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Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the nerf is destined, just a matter of when.
i'm enjoying the class, too, which means it will be nerfed into oblivion like all my other favorites.9 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't see why they would. IMO the class performs lacklustre. Maybe players will figure out how to play it well, but right now I'm thinking it could probably use slight buffs more than nerfs, mainly in the sustain department. Ridiculous on paper sustain paired with ridiculous skill costs makes it a hard one to judge.
Don't even mind PvP. We all knew the beam was going to be situational at best and that the class has no burst. I made the mistake of speccing into all damage, due to the touted tankiness of the class, but either I can't play it, or the tankiness is not actually there unless you specifically build for it. A 12K (in PvP) one second shield on a 30K health build doesn't work for me at all. Not nearly good enough. I've been outbursted by nightblades and outdamaged and outsustained by a templar. Fair enough, you say, there's a learning curve, like with any class. That is fair, but IMO it still goes to show the class is not OP.
As a PvE DD it's the same as every class. I didn't have Velothi Ur, but Deadly + Draugrkin + beaming alone doesn't get you to a 100K parse. It gets you in the same 60K territory on the dummy that other classes and heavy attack builds get to with trivial rotations. That says balanced to me, not OP. Furthermore you can't activate synergies while beaming, you can't bash / interrupt targets while beaming, you obviously can't block, and Pragmatic Fatecarver in solo PvE, by which I mean the simplest dungeon - (vet) Fungal Grotto, gets interrupted by NPCs all the time before it even starts, letting your crux go to waste. This makes it IMO a beginner class. It is IMO not well suited to more demanding content.
I don't play healers, but I do play tanks. As the latter, I've heard that the class is situational. OP in some situations and miserably bad in others. From a gameplay perspective this is actually a good thing in my book, the best possible outcome because it's not bland and will have it's uses. Do I personally feel like playing it as my default tank, though? Hell no. Do I want to play it solo? Hell no. The class sucks at self healing. Shields are no substitutes for heals. A shield takes full damage and gets depleted. A heal often only needs to heal damage post block mitigation, which makes smaller heals as effective as much bigger shields. A heal will also heal Oblivion damage. Shields are no substitute for heals. I absolutely adore them when I get them more or less for free, such as on a shielding armor set or from the Brawler skill. However when they cost 3K to 4K magicka and that's all the skill really does, then not so much. I was wearing Pale Order while soloing, by the way, and on this class that just does not even feel good. For an experienced player who blocks and dodges in demanding (solo) content, Fatecarver is a fail. You can probably learn to live with it, but why would you want to? The class is a bit like templar, but Sweeps and Radiant Glory both heal and have shorter channel times. Much better than that shield on Pragmatic Fatecarver.12 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭They have not sold enough Necroms yet to add in the nerf.
Obviously this class was excessively tested i house, and then on PTS. Yet, they will say they made a mistake and it needs a nerf. Usually mythics, this time a class. I give it a month, maybe two. When sales decline enough.10 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They have not sold enough Necroms yet to add in the nerf.
Obviously this class was excessively tested i house, and then on PTS. Yet, they will say they made a mistake and it needs a nerf. Usually mythics, this time a class. I give it a month, maybe two. When sales decline enough.
"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."7 -
manukartofanu✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, fantastically OP class. Should be nerfed unless ZOS want everybody in this game use only Arcanist.3 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭...and this is the problem. Tune the class correctly in the first place. Don't use it as an incentive. NO ONE likes nerfs after being given time to get used to a class. This is why there is a lot of resentment. Do the job right.
It is literally every expansion and they wonder why they have so much kick back and anger, when this is every new expansion.
I enjoy the class and would love it to remain as is. It is useful and fun, and added a bit of life and enjoyment back in to the game.
"Ok, we need people to buy more this expansion; the class/mythic is the biggest draw, let's make it super powerful."
"Right, now we can tune it down to what we originally wanted."
"Why are people always angry with us?"5 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭The arcanist dps is beam (dunno about PVP) if it nerfed it will not compete with DK.
It is a unique class that if you can properly utilize it, can compete with other classes at their peak. I feel if it is nerfed and the beam is no longer the best option, it will just become a reskin class like the others.
IMO the DK is better, it can achieve a similar or greater DPS and you are not locked into a vulnerable state where you are less mobile. The arc has its costs and its benefits, if the benefits are nerfs and the costs are not minimized too the DK will be the better option without a doubt in pretty much every circumstance. In fact, a nerf to arc would prob just send people back to oaksorc.7 -
derpy_mushroom✭✭✭DK and Sorc are both parsing far higher DPS, and probably perform better in content due to the free movement of not needing to aim the beam, especially in single target fights.
Sure Arcanist does extremely well in AoE, but that's pretty much all it's got going for it when it comes to PvE damage.
the shield healer playstyle is either gonna be extremely strong, or extremely lacklustre, I've seen it go both ways, but really, based on pure numbers, the class doesn't need nerfing.
It's generally weaker than other classes in single target. AoE is real good, but then I've seen other classes still outperform it there, Killing the beam, kills the class, and the only thing that I'd want to see happen is for Runeblades to be comparable to Cephaliarch's Flail as a spammable, every version of DD Arcanist uses Flail, and ignores Runeblades, which is sad, because it's a cool ability. So, unless ZOS wants to make the game inaccessible for a lot of people, Arcanist is in a good spot for being both powerful and fun, but it's not outcompeting the other classes with more complex rotations
Rayri Aranys - Dunmer Arcanist. (Telvanni Mer represent!)Caeyla Gentleflame - Altmer Sorcerer (DD Rescue non-pet Sorcerer!)Tanalenya Aerith - Altmer Sorcerer (Tank, Critical Surge goes brrt)8 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Arcanist is very fun to play class and also is in good spot - it's not OP, it have strength points but also weaknesses, which is good thing for balance (I'm talking about PvE, not tested in PvP). Probably some minor things still needs adjustments but overall it's pleasant surprise how good this class is.
It's so refreshing to play in so much different way (especially with Velothi, when you can forget about LA weavining). Before launch I thought that new class will be just new skin for same, old mechanics, like necromancer was (and this is my least favourite class) but this is pleasant surprise.PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton5 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭derpy_mushroom wrote: »DK and Sorc are both parsing far higher DPS, and probably perform better in content due to the free movement of not needing to aim the beam, especially in single target fights.
Sure Arcanist does extremely well in AoE, but that's pretty much all it's got going for it when it comes to PvE damage.
the shield healer playstyle is either gonna be extremely strong, or extremely lacklustre, I've seen it go both ways, but really, based on pure numbers, the class doesn't need nerfing.
It's generally weaker than other classes in single target. AoE is real good, but then I've seen other classes still outperform it there, Killing the beam, kills the class, and the only thing that I'd want to see happen is for Runeblades to be comparable to Cephaliarch's Flail as a spammable, every version of DD Arcanist uses Flail, and ignores Runeblades, which is sad, because it's a cool ability. So, unless ZOS wants to make the game inaccessible for a lot of people, Arcanist is in a good spot for being both powerful and fun, but it's not outcompeting the other classes with more complex rotations
Yeah, I used Runeblade until Flail was unlocked, then got the skill point back from Runeblade and have never considered using it since.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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The gist of the OP and comments like the above are very strange. I've heard the same from players I like, but who did not play on the PTS (that I know of) and were venting their preconceptions before the chapter was even released. Please observe the actual game. None of this is happening here. The class is actually slightly underpowered as far as I can see. It's just sufficiently different that it shines in some scenarios. AOEs where everything lines up with the beam are not only somewhat rare, they're also not what endgame is about. Trash is not a problem. PvP is measured by burst. PvE is measured by single-target damage above all. Tanking, interrupting foes, activating synergies ... you've presumably read all my misgivings, since I posted here first. If you like the class, I don't think you need to worry....and this is the problem. Tune the class correctly in the first place. Don't use it as an incentive. NO ONE likes nerfs after being given time to get used to a class. This is why there is a lot of resentment. Do the job right.
It is literally every expansion and they wonder why they have so much kick back and anger, when this is every new expansion.
I enjoy the class and would love it to remain as is. It is useful and fun, and added a bit of life and enjoyment back in to the game.
"Ok, we need people to buy more this expansion; the class/mythic is the biggest draw, let's make it super powerful."
"Right, now we can tune it down to what we originally wanted."
"Why are people always angry with us?"4 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love the class, I dont think it needs any nerfs at all, its the first class where you can fully rely on your kit, and where you have to make choices and sacrifices to make a viable build, if you make it too tanky with your class skills, you lose lots of damage, and if you put weapon and armor skills on there, you are lowering your effectiveness. It is the first well thought out class in a long time.
Kudos on ZoS for it, it is now my favorite class, and my main, because it is very efficient, and is logical.9 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭manukartofanu wrote: »Yeah, fantastically OP class. Should be nerfed unless ZOS want everybody in this game use only Arcanist.
DK is extremely OP still, so until they nerf that, it makes no sense for arcanist to be nerfed.5 -
EramTheLiar✭✭✭✭I'm gonna repost this highly scientific and 100% accurate graph I made on PTS:
The gist here is that arcanist is more effective for middle-tier players (like me) than for the upper tier elite rotation sweatlords because the Emerald Searchlight of Prolonged Death makes light attack weaving less of a thing, and the Viridian Spotlight of Unending Doom makes your build focus on building up to the beam rather than laying down a think blanket of multi-dotted death, but there's still more class skill investment than you get from HA builds. LIke, I _can_ LA weave but not particularly well, and arcanist has allowed me to go through and solo a lot more content then I used to be able to. There were world boss fights on craglorn I couldn't do in other classes -- go ahead and laugh, it's fine, but it's true -- and definitely some in orsinium I couldn't manage, that I now can, with the right gear. (Note that "with the right gear" may not be a ringing endorsement of the class but consider than in this situation, based on my level of skill, "the right gear" for other classes DID NOT EXIST).
Top tier players are always going to find arcanist lackluster in places, I suspect, but some of them are still being sucked in because there's also the other side of it: wholly apart from the power level, which as I note is 100% accurately represented in the completely scientific and unquestionably accurate, also did I mention it's accurate, graphic above, but also the playstyle is fun. Not for everyone, I suspect, but definitely for me, and it's fun and good enough that people are making it work for them.
You will still find people complaining about how arcanist is OP because internet MMO.8 -
EramTheLiar✭✭✭✭Oh there were some much better highly scientific graphs that followed mine but they're not mine so I didn't post them here.1
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ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.
Thank you for your understanding.
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shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When they killed Templars I stopped caring. I still play but they get no money from me.
Nor will they till they bring back my jabs.1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't foresee them nerfing Arcanist... the only skill that does really any damage is Fatecarver and even that needs to be buffed with crux... to nerf it would be taking away the only viable skill the class has. I could see them nerfing Ceph's Flail though, I think it does a bit too many things for one skill... hopefully they don't, but if I could foresee any skill being nerfed, it would be that one.
I also don't consider them removing crux after 30/s to be a nerf... and even with that I think this may well be a bug and not intended, based on Gina's patch notes. But even if it is intended, if you're just standing around for 30/s doing nothing, then apparently you don't need the crux. In fact, all you have to do is cast a crux generator every 30/s to keep the buff.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS actually pre-nerfed both the Mythic and certain elements of the class before it ever went live. As such, the class is basically balanced already, if not a tad bit underpowered (which is fine).
This is completely the opposite of the Warden and Necromancer at launch. Anyone trying to conflate those classes with the Arcanist are barking up the wrong tree entirely.2 -
Sikon✭✭✭So funny, that there are actually people who think Arcanist is balanced atm. Of course this class will need and get a nerf... it is by far over the top in every roles and content (extremely strong passives, high dmg tooltips, too high shields and so on). You cannot beam through the world and expect to smash everybody...
I have a level 50 Arcanist myself and the unbalanced potential atm is so boring I quit it again. Waiting for the nerf to make it compareable. Please stop flaming the forum already.. the nerf is definetly necessary"Both light and shadow can be deadly, though only one chases the other.""Eyes open and walk with the shadows."1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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I think EramTheLiar's graph perfectly captures why you might say this.So funny, that there are actually people who think Arcanist is balanced atm. Of course this class will need and get a nerf... it is by far over the top in every roles and content (extremely strong passives, high dmg tooltips, too high shields and so on). You cannot beam through the world and expect to smash everybody...
I have a level 50 Arcanist myself and the unbalanced potential atm is so boring I quit it again. Waiting for the nerf to make it compareable. Please stop flaming the forum already.. the nerf is definetly necessary5 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Gigantic shields, with a very high number of buffs, targeted immobilize and stun, with very high survivability. This class is way overloaded.2 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Usually its not the entire class that is overpowered. It's usually just a couple things the devs couldnt anticipate being used the way they are. Even though people bring it up in test cycles.
There were signs the abysmal sea would need addressed...
https://youtu.be/jk4AeCuTzfg
I'm torn on it really.
Stay away from it will be the obvious answer, but it seems melee gets more and more risk and advantages shrunk. Even ranged, you have to watch for the mass pulls
Stay away from groups filling the damage; but this is in RvR large scale PvP game. Odd that counters are to not play the part of the game that's actually unique to other games. I tend to oblige the request lately though. So maybe it works.
As someone mentioned already. Doesn't really matter. This is the treadmill to get you to purchase things. They still need their sales0 -
ShalidorsHeir✭✭✭✭Well i claim: if they dont nerf acarnist players are going to leave ESO (which is bad for business) cuz nobody wants to play a game with only one reasonable class. period
on top of that this class by now is beyond stupidy when it comes to skill rotations. The orb (or whatever you call this) minigame is not very well designed. Eltrys Wolfszahn
Julia Ansei at-Tava
C H I M
"Find a new hill, become a king"0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Attack me and you die builds are nothing new and have been nerfed in the past alright. Yes, staying away from it is the answer and why that build may not stay attractive long term, even without a nerf. Luca Cash specialises in ganking and niche builds. A while ago he was suspected by the playerbase of doctoring his parse results to promote a build. I won't pay too much attention to him until I run into this myself.TechMaybeHic wrote: »Usually its not the entire class that is overpowered. It's usually just a couple things the devs couldnt anticipate being used the way they are. Even though people bring it up in test cycles.
There were signs the abysmal sea would need addressed...https://youtu.be/jk4AeCuTzfg
I'm torn on it really.
Stay away from it will be the obvious answer, but it seems melee gets more and more risk and advantages shrunk. Even ranged, you have to watch for the mass pulls
Stay away from groups filling the damage; but this is in RvR large scale PvP game. Odd that counters are to not play the part of the game that's actually unique to other games. I tend to oblige the request lately though. So maybe it works.
As someone mentioned already. Doesn't really matter. This is the treadmill to get you to purchase things. They still need their sales2 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZoS how about instead of nerfing the arcanist to be useless you instead buff the over classes (and nerf the dk) to be on-par with the arcanist in terms of ability?2 -
GrimStyx✭✭✭I don't see why they would. IMO the class performs lacklustre. Maybe players will figure out how to play it well, but right now I'm thinking it could probably use slight buffs more than nerfs, mainly in the sustain department. Ridiculous on paper sustain paired with ridiculous skill costs makes it a hard one to judge.
Don't even mind PvP. We all knew the beam was going to be situational at best and that the class has no burst. I made the mistake of speccing into all damage, due to the touted tankiness of the class, but either I can't play it, or the tankiness is not actually there unless you specifically build for it. A 12K (in PvP) one second shield on a 30K health build doesn't work for me at all. Not nearly good enough. I've been outbursted by nightblades and outdamaged and outsustained by a templar. Fair enough, you say, there's a learning curve, like with any class. That is fair, but IMO it still goes to show the class is not OP.
As a PvE DD it's the same as every class. I didn't have Velothi Ur, but Deadly + Draugrkin + beaming alone doesn't get you to a 100K parse. It gets you in the same 60K territory on the dummy that other classes and heavy attack builds get to with trivial rotations. That says balanced to me, not OP. Furthermore you can't activate synergies while beaming, you can't bash / interrupt targets while beaming, you obviously can't block, and Pragmatic Fatecarver in solo PvE, by which I mean the simplest dungeon - (vet) Fungal Grotto, gets interrupted by NPCs all the time before it even starts, letting your crux go to waste. This makes it IMO a beginner class. It is IMO not well suited to more demanding content.
I don't play healers, but I do play tanks. As the latter, I've heard that the class is situational. OP in some situations and miserably bad in others. From a gameplay perspective this is actually a good thing in my book, the best possible outcome because it's not bland and will have it's uses. Do I personally feel like playing it as my default tank, though? Hell no. Do I want to play it solo? Hell no. The class sucks at self healing. Shields are no substitutes for heals. A shield takes full damage and gets depleted. A heal often only needs to heal damage post block mitigation, which makes smaller heals as effective as much bigger shields. A heal will also heal Oblivion damage. Shields are no substitute for heals. I absolutely adore them when I get them more or less for free, such as on a shielding armor set or from the Brawler skill. However when they cost 3K to 4K magicka and that's all the skill really does, then not so much. I was wearing Pale Order while soloing, by the way, and on this class that just does not even feel good. For an experienced player who blocks and dodges in demanding (solo) content, Fatecarver is a fail. You can probably learn to live with it, but why would you want to? The class is a bit like templar, but Sweeps and Radiant Glory both heal and have shorter channel times. Much better than that shield on Pragmatic Fatecarver.
even on necro I'm quite comfortable playing against an arcanist, it's definitely not OP, like a DK who never stops getting buffed, his Fatecarver deals solid damage, but it's just as hard to implement as tether necro, I just need to circle around the enemy, and he will not be able to hit me, although this is his burst ability, as I understand it, it can be considered that in some content it simply does not have burst damage, I really liked the Fatecarver concept with its non-target, but unfortunately, it cannot compete against targeted abilities, because the game is built on them, perhaps if all skills and weapons made non-target, then this would make sense, but if you don't go too radical, then fatecaver needs either good control, which could, in addition to slowing down, impose silence or disable dodge, or make it target ability in another morph, or completely change the principle of work in another morph, for example, it will be an instant beam,
like force pulse, that all cruxes use to huge damageEdited by GrimStyx on 20 June 2023 15:163 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShalidorsHeir wrote: »Well i claim: if they dont nerf acarnist players are going to leave ESO (which is bad for business) cuz nobody wants to play a game with only one reasonable class. period on top of that this class by now is beyond stupidy when it comes to skill rotations. The orb (or whatever you call this) minigame is not very well designed.
Solid B tier for pvp. No where close to being as good as DK.
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