Arcanist Sustain (healer)

p00tx · June 2023

So far, this class is super fun to play, but the sustain is making it relatively unplayable as a mag based healer spec. It seems odd though because there seems to be plenty of sustain built into the passives and it should be outsustaining most other classes, but even with sustain food, chugging potions on cooldown, nd building for max sustain with all available class and non-class passives, I'm still tapped out relatively quickly. Something seems very wrong.

ixthUA · June 2023

For PvE, can mix magicka and stamina heals, doubling sustain.

Soarora · June 2023

I didn't have mag issues on healer (granted, I wasn't using radiating) however I have had mag issues on tank that I haven't been able to solve yet. Same character so it's not race.

FeedbackOnly · June 2023

How much magicka regain do you have? I didn't have such issues.

p00tx · June 2023

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

How much magicka regain do you have? I didn't have such issues.

Hi! I had around 2900 mag regen with a potion active. That's a LOT of regen for me normally, since I'm usually running in hardmode 12 person content.

p00tx · June 2023

Soarora wrote: »

I didn't have mag issues on healer (granted, I wasn't using radiating) however I have had mag issues on tank that I haven't been able to solve yet. Same character so it's not race.

Hi, which skills were you running on each? I'm wondering if it's one skill in particular that's the culprit. I barely had any arcanist skills on my bar, and one was just there for the passive regen, so I was mostly using the normal healing skills/rotation that I'd use on any healer in a trial.

Sotha_Sil · June 2023

I don't have any issues for magicka regen as an arcanist but I haven't tried it in hardmode trial content so maybe that's why. It works fine in vet HM dungeons even in difficult situations.

As yourself, I get very high regen (even as dark elf) around 2400 or more unbuffed using the atronach. Are you using Arcanist Domain for that +15 % regen and recuperative Treatise for even more ? I think arcanist has less sustain than Templar and has a lot of situational skills that require to use it in the right situations, if you don't want to spend your magicka for nothing (chakram shields, remedy cascade, and so on).

thedoodle_90 · June 2023

Don't forget one of Arcanist primary sustain for the class is using crux. They REALLY tied this class into crux, most if not all of its class passives require using class skills making resto staff (and for dps other weapon skills) almost pointless to use

Soarora · June 2023

p00tx wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I didn't have mag issues on healer (granted, I wasn't using radiating) however I have had mag issues on tank that I haven't been able to solve yet. Same character so it's not race.

Hi, which skills were you running on each? I'm wondering if it's one skill in particular that's the culprit. I barely had any arcanist skills on my bar, and one was just there for the passive regen, so I was mostly using the normal healing skills/rotation that I'd use on any healer in a trial.

Healer

Bar1:

Chakram of Destiny
Combat Prayer
Rune of Colorless Pool
Curative Surge
Healing Springs
Gibbering Shield (bar buffer because I don't have barrier yet)

Bar2:

Reconstructive Domain
Energy Orb
Echoing Vigor
Overflowing Altar
Recup Treatise
Glyphic of the Tides

Chakram seems a lot more useful in dungeons than trials (uptime wise) but I needed something to generate crux with so I can give sustain using curative surge. Might switch to a DPS crux generator.

Tank

Bar1:

Runic Embrace
Pierce Armor
Imperv Runeward
Cruxweaver Armor
Defensive Stance
Sanctum of Abyssal Sea

Bar2:

Silver Leash
Recup Treatise
Blockade
Rune of Displacement
Still Waters
Aggressive Warhorn

FeedbackOnly · June 2023

p00tx wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

How much magicka regain do you have? I didn't have such issues.

Hi! I had around 2900 mag regen with a potion active. That's a LOT of regen for me normally, since I'm usually running in hardmode 12 person content.

Yeah that's just wierd? Is the other healers doing their part? I have seen some healers with 1200 regain.

Also maybe it's a disparity in races. According to the poll, a lot of people picked Breton, altmer or Khajitt.

Especially khajitt, will see higher hps and less sustain issues in low run.

Edit

Another thing, I was thinking make sure you proc minor evasion often in new trial or something more defensive.

LittlePinkDot · June 2023

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

Don't forget one of Arcanist primary sustain for the class is using crux. They REALLY tied this class into crux, most if not all of its class passives require using class skills making resto staff (and for dps other weapon skills) almost pointless to use

But if you use more weapon skills you'll sustain better regardless because those skills cost less in the first place.

Zodiarkslayer · June 2023

I have made a (fun) dungeon healer build for my MagArc.

On a hunch I used three cost reduction glyphs with Curative Surge. In Addition I have above 3200 without popping the TriPots. The raw healing output of this is nuts. At the same time I can give a plethora of buffs, that are really useful in dungeons.

Sustain is really no issue...

Kwik1 · June 2023

I love my Arc Healer and have no issues with sustain either.

J18696 · June 2023

Alot of arcanist skills seem to just cost to much in general so the regen built into the kit never really shines

N00BxV1 · June 2023

I'm still leveling my Arcanist Tanks (been playing something else all week) in group dungeons and battlegrounds. But I just gotta say, so far Arcanists can get some of the highest Magicka/Stamina recoveries that I have ever seen without really trying. I mean they get Minor Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance from a class skill, 18% Magicka/Stamina recovery from a class passive (more than Minor Intellect/Endurance), plus more recovery from other conditional class passives.

This is from my Level 40 Dunmer Arcanist Tank ...

... That's with 32k Armor, 40k Health, 22k Stamina, 22k Magicka, and 4k Damage. I'm still leveling skill lines so I don't have most of the passives. And I'm just using some crafted leveling gear (mix of blue/purple quality in Sturdy trait and Magicka recovery on jewelry) with the Atronach Mundus (Magicka recovery), Crown Refreshing Drink (tri-stat recovery), and Crown Tri-Pots (Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance).

I'm a DK main and am just used to seeing high-cost skills... But those Level 40 Arcanist Tank recovery values are literally more than double of what I have on a DK Tank that is maxed-out.

I don't know about Arcanist Healer's sustain though. It's probably easier for a Tank (hybrid) that uses both resources for skills as well as blocking.

Arcanists got some recovery!

FeedbackOnly · June 2023

N00BxV1 wrote: »

I'm still leveling my Arcanist Tanks (been playing something else all week) in group dungeons and battlegrounds. But I just gotta say, so far Arcanists can get some of the highest Magicka/Stamina recoveries that I have ever seen without really trying. I mean they get Minor Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance from a class skill, 18% Magicka/Stamina recovery from a class passive (more than Minor Intellect/Endurance), plus more recovery from other conditional class passives.

This is from my Level 40 Dunmer Arcanist Tank ...

... That's with 32k Armor, 40k Health, 22k Stamina, 22k Magicka, and 4k Damage. I'm still leveling skill lines so I don't have most of the passives. And I'm just using some crafted leveling gear (mix of blue/purple quality in Sturdy trait and Magicka recovery on jewelry) with the Atronach Mundus (Magicka recovery), Crown Refreshing Drink (tri-stat recovery), and Crown Tri-Pots (Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance).

I'm a DK main and am just used to seeing high-cost skills... But those Level 40 Arcanist Tank recovery values are literally more than double of what I have on a DK Tank that is maxed-out.

I don't know about Arcanist Healer's sustain though. It's probably easier for a Tank (hybrid) that uses both resources for skills as well as blocking.

Arcanists got some recovery!

Yeah it has to be other healer isn't healing enough. Maybe it's time for 2 healers in end game not just 1healer and a buffer with 1200 Magicka regain

Soarora · June 2023

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

I'm still leveling my Arcanist Tanks (been playing something else all week) in group dungeons and battlegrounds. But I just gotta say, so far Arcanists can get some of the highest Magicka/Stamina recoveries that I have ever seen without really trying. I mean they get Minor Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance from a class skill, 18% Magicka/Stamina recovery from a class passive (more than Minor Intellect/Endurance), plus more recovery from other conditional class passives.

This is from my Level 40 Dunmer Arcanist Tank ...

... That's with 32k Armor, 40k Health, 22k Stamina, 22k Magicka, and 4k Damage. I'm still leveling skill lines so I don't have most of the passives. And I'm just using some crafted leveling gear (mix of blue/purple quality in Sturdy trait and Magicka recovery on jewelry) with the Atronach Mundus (Magicka recovery), Crown Refreshing Drink (tri-stat recovery), and Crown Tri-Pots (Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance).

I'm a DK main and am just used to seeing high-cost skills... But those Level 40 Arcanist Tank recovery values are literally more than double of what I have on a DK Tank that is maxed-out.

I don't know about Arcanist Healer's sustain though. It's probably easier for a Tank (hybrid) that uses both resources for skills as well as blocking.

Arcanists got some recovery!

Yeah it has to be other healer isn't healing enough. Maybe it's time for 2 healers in end game not just 1healer and a buffer with 1200 Magicka regain

Both healers equally heal and buff the only times I know of where the healers are not so equal are kite heal mechanics and if one healer is a dps hybrid... so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

FeedbackOnly · June 2023

Soarora wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

I'm still leveling my Arcanist Tanks (been playing something else all week) in group dungeons and battlegrounds. But I just gotta say, so far Arcanists can get some of the highest Magicka/Stamina recoveries that I have ever seen without really trying. I mean they get Minor Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance from a class skill, 18% Magicka/Stamina recovery from a class passive (more than Minor Intellect/Endurance), plus more recovery from other conditional class passives.

This is from my Level 40 Dunmer Arcanist Tank ...

... That's with 32k Armor, 40k Health, 22k Stamina, 22k Magicka, and 4k Damage. I'm still leveling skill lines so I don't have most of the passives. And I'm just using some crafted leveling gear (mix of blue/purple quality in Sturdy trait and Magicka recovery on jewelry) with the Atronach Mundus (Magicka recovery), Crown Refreshing Drink (tri-stat recovery), and Crown Tri-Pots (Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance).

I'm a DK main and am just used to seeing high-cost skills... But those Level 40 Arcanist Tank recovery values are literally more than double of what I have on a DK Tank that is maxed-out.

I don't know about Arcanist Healer's sustain though. It's probably easier for a Tank (hybrid) that uses both resources for skills as well as blocking.

Arcanists got some recovery!

Yeah it has to be other healer isn't healing enough. Maybe it's time for 2 healers in end game not just 1healer and a buffer with 1200 Magicka regain

Both healers equally heal and buff the only times I know of where the healers are not so equal are kite heal mechanics and if one healer is a dps hybrid... so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Yeah with one healer with 1200 regain then complaining about a sustain problem...the problem is elsewhere outside of the class.

p00tx · June 2023

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

How much magicka regain do you have? I didn't have such issues.

Hi! I had around 2900 mag regen with a potion active. That's a LOT of regen for me normally, since I'm usually running in hardmode 12 person content.

Yeah that's just wierd? Is the other healers doing their part? I have seen some healers with 1200 regain.

Also maybe it's a disparity in races. According to the poll, a lot of people picked Breton, altmer or Khajitt.

Especially khajitt, will see higher hps and less sustain issues in low run.

Edit

Another thing, I was thinking make sure you proc minor evasion often in new trial or something more defensive.

I was running it on an altmer because I wanted to be able to use it as both a dps and a healer, but I think I'm going to have to race change to Breton. I primarily push trial trifectas and scores, so sustain is going to affect me very differently than most other players. Those of us who are trying to implement Arcanist support into our trifecta runs are all seeing the same intense sustain issues for sustained weaving/casting.

p00tx · June 2023

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

I'm still leveling my Arcanist Tanks (been playing something else all week) in group dungeons and battlegrounds. But I just gotta say, so far Arcanists can get some of the highest Magicka/Stamina recoveries that I have ever seen without really trying. I mean they get Minor Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance from a class skill, 18% Magicka/Stamina recovery from a class passive (more than Minor Intellect/Endurance), plus more recovery from other conditional class passives.

This is from my Level 40 Dunmer Arcanist Tank ...

... That's with 32k Armor, 40k Health, 22k Stamina, 22k Magicka, and 4k Damage. I'm still leveling skill lines so I don't have most of the passives. And I'm just using some crafted leveling gear (mix of blue/purple quality in Sturdy trait and Magicka recovery on jewelry) with the Atronach Mundus (Magicka recovery), Crown Refreshing Drink (tri-stat recovery), and Crown Tri-Pots (Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance).

I'm a DK main and am just used to seeing high-cost skills... But those Level 40 Arcanist Tank recovery values are literally more than double of what I have on a DK Tank that is maxed-out.

I don't know about Arcanist Healer's sustain though. It's probably easier for a Tank (hybrid) that uses both resources for skills as well as blocking.

Arcanists got some recovery!

Yeah it has to be other healer isn't healing enough. Maybe it's time for 2 healers in end game not just 1healer and a buffer with 1200 Magicka regain

Both healers equally heal and buff the only times I know of where the healers are not so equal are kite heal mechanics and if one healer is a dps hybrid... so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Yeah with one healer with 1200 regain then complaining about a sustain problem...the problem is elsewhere outside of the class.

It's definitely a class issue. Arcanist gets a lot of its sustain from spending the crux it builds, and there is currently only one way for Arcanist healers to dispel their crux, which is the healing beam/book. While the book is an interesting heal, it's not an efficient use of a healer's GCDs or casts to be beaming every rotation. Not in advanced content anyway. Arcanist healers benefit from holding crux by gaining healing strength, but then can't sustain their own heals as a result of holding the crux. It wouldn't be so bad if the sustain penalty wasn't so severe, sinc the trade-off would definitely be worth it.