The Next Chapter needs to force players to do the main quest of the last

Vrienda · June 2023

For those who aren't clear, ZOS is trying a multi-year long story this go around, which is good and the story is all very interesting but it will innevitably suffer if we can do it out of order.

I think they need to require the Necrom questline be completed to access the main questline of the next chapter. OR to ignore that a player might be doing it out of order and just telling the story with Necrom having already occured in the past tense regardless of the player getting around to it yet. Otherwise this entire storyline is going to be a mess!

SeaGtGruff · June 2023

I'm not sure new players who start the game with the base game plus Morrowind, plus whatever next year's chapter will be, but without having access to Necrom or the other DLCs and former chapters, would appreciate not being able to start playing the game they purchased until after they either made an additional purchase of Necrom or else subscribed to ESO Plus.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · June 2023

It was being forced through the full story in Final Fantasy XIV and WoW that led to jump tokens in their cash shops. I am against anything that allows more monetization, double dipping in this case, so players can play current content which they just purchased at full price.

TaSheen · June 2023

Same with WoW and RIFT. Not something I'd like to have to deal with again.

Danikat · June 2023

I disagree that the game needs to force players to do it in order.

Guild Wars 2 has a linear story where the events of each release affect the story in later releases and will be referenced by characters, but it still lets players go through them in any order. If you wanted to you could start with the newest release (which is an epilogue to the latest expansion) and work your way backwards.

Players who care about the story and want to follow what's going on will choose to do it in order (just like they do with the current ESO stories). Players who don't care will skip to whichever bits interest them (often based on what items and abilities you unlock there). But that's ok because they don't care, they're not going to care about the story simply because they're forced to go through all of it to get to the bits they want, if anything it will just put them off playing any of it.

I think having an on-going story is a good idea and I wish they'd stuck with it after Wrothgar instead of trying to pretend everything happens at once and our characters are somehow involved in all of it. But I don't think that needs to be mutually exclusive with giving players the freedom to make their own decisions about what to play and in what order.

Hapexamendios · June 2023

I'll play any order I damn well please.

ZOS_Phoenix · June 2023

Greetings,

After review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic (Quests and Exploration, as this thread is regarding quests and their continuity).

Thank you for your understanding.

Aislinna · June 2023

"Play how you want!"

VaranisArano · June 2023

They managed it okay with Morrowind -> Clockwork City -> Summerset. Clockwork City was acceptably standalone, and Summerset built up the threat of the Daedric Triad on its own. There was some cool implications if you played in order like the final boss's identity or how your success in CWC prevented an instant loss in Summerset, but those weren't necessary to understand the story.

It wasn't as egregious as some of the year-long stories where the Chapter was clearly the starter villain with the main bad guy saved for Q4.

Vrienda · June 2023

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I'm not sure new players who start the game with the base game plus Morrowind, plus whatever next year's chapter will be, but without having access to Necrom or the other DLCs and former chapters, would appreciate not being able to start playing the game they purchased until after they either made an additional purchase of Necrom or else subscribed to ESO Plus.

Just include Necrom with any purchase of the next expansion. Keep the rest for the complete edition.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

It was being forced through the full story in Final Fantasy XIV and WoW that led to jump tokens in their cash shops. I am against anything that allows more monetization, double dipping in this case, so players can play current content which they just purchased at full price.

ESO's cash shop is FAR worse than any of theirs and ESO doesn't really hide anything behind their questlines but cosmetics and bad overland gear that drops like candy. FF14 locks the entire endgame. WoW doesn't monetise their skips. You do it on an alt once, then skip on others for free. Level boosts they do but that was in the game long before they did anything with the story.

valenwood_vegan · June 2023

This would be a major departure for ESO. Part of their core philosophy since One Tamriel has been that players can play through any zone at any time in any order. There are def some zones that don't interest me as much as others, and I for one am glad I never have to play through them first to unlock the ones I feel like playing.

And then this creates another problem, for new players that pick up the base game plus the new chapter next year and don't have access to Necrom... so the solution is to give Necrom to them for free? I mean I'm absolutely all for free stuff, but why would ZoS want to do that?

I think the way things were done with Vvard/CWC/Summerset was fine, and I really don't see such a radical change happening.

Braffin · June 2023

I see no need to force people into a specific story order, but think this move would be most harmful to the game.

Sure, this game could do a lot better regarding clarity of story order for everyone interested.

But why forcing people into this order, if they choose to ignore it?

Even nowadays the player is able to create a toon, travel to any zone of his liking (including the connected base game zones) and start playing there. I see absolutely no reason to change that.

What we need is a proper roadmap of the story (preferably ingame), a cleanup of the mess in starter zones regarding quest givers and maybe a hint at the beginning of next years chapter, that the story is the continuation of an earlier one.

disintegr8 · June 2023

Considering they opened the game up with One Tamriel, I doubt they'll ever lock anything behind previous content again.

TenebrisEquitem · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

I see no need to force people into a specific story order, but think this move would be most harmful to the game.

Sure, this game could do a lot better regarding clarity of story order for everyone interested.

But why forcing people into this order, if they choose to ignore it?

Have you played and finished Necrom's main quest when you wrote this?

I'm asking, because the main quest ends such a way that would make next year's chapter nonsensical if you haven't played Necrom. It'll be the equivalent of watching part 2 of a movie before watching part 1. Not to mention that jumping into Necrom after having completed 2024's chapter will also be a mess.

Between the cliffhanger at the end of Necrom, and the Three Banners War peace treaty, I'm surprised more people don't see the problem with the "play however you want" philosophy.

You can tell ZOS wants to progress the story forward by introducing all these new interesting story elements, and I don't see how they can progress with the narrative and evolve their characters in a meaningful way if every new chapter is structured around newcomers.

Only the story content needs to be locked for people who haven't played previous chapters. The zone itself, side quests and everything else can remain the way they are right now. FFXIV greatly benefits from having mandatory story progression, and I think ESO can also benefit from it, while still having from freedom than FFXIV.

Braffin · June 2023

TenebrisEquitem wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

I see no need to force people into a specific story order, but think this move would be most harmful to the game.

Sure, this game could do a lot better regarding clarity of story order for everyone interested.

But why forcing people into this order, if they choose to ignore it?

Have you played and finished Necrom's main quest when you wrote this?

I'm asking, because the main quest ends such a way that would make next year's chapter nonsensical if you haven't played Necrom. It'll be the equivalent of watching part 2 of a movie before watching part 1. Not to mention that jumping into Necrom after having completed 2024's chapter will also be a mess.

Between the cliffhanger at the end of Necrom, and the Three Banners War peace treaty, I'm surprised more people don't see the problem with the "play however you want" philosophy.

You can tell ZOS wants to progress the story forward by introducing all these new interesting story elements, and I don't see how they can progress with the narrative and evolve their characters in a meaningful way if every new chapter is structured around newcomers.

Only the story content needs to be locked for people who haven't played previous chapters. The zone itself, side quests and everything else can remain the way they are right now. FFXIV greatly benefits from having mandatory story progression, and I think ESO can also benefit from it, while still having from freedom than FFXIV.

No, the story content doesn't need tobe locked.

If anyone decides to watch part 2 of a movie before watching part 1, it's his decision to make. Not yours, not mine, not anybody else's.

Same goes for eso. Not all people are here for the story, but for various other reasons. Some people even skip all dialogues, because they are only interested in the reward and move on.

Maybe you don't understand them, it's also not my playstyle, but if it's fitting for someone they have every right to do so.

There is no "correct" way or order to play this game. The whole suggestion is hilarious.

I mean, think again about your idea: You're in fact asking for gatekeeping of content and forcing all players into your playstyle, if they want to is irrelevant then.

Do you really want that? And if the answer is "yes", I would be interested in the reasoning behind that.

Ps: next time you quote someone try to do it complete.

TenebrisEquitem · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

TenebrisEquitem wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

I see no need to force people into a specific story order, but think this move would be most harmful to the game.

Sure, this game could do a lot better regarding clarity of story order for everyone interested.

But why forcing people into this order, if they choose to ignore it?

Have you played and finished Necrom's main quest when you wrote this?

I'm asking, because the main quest ends such a way that would make next year's chapter nonsensical if you haven't played Necrom. It'll be the equivalent of watching part 2 of a movie before watching part 1. Not to mention that jumping into Necrom after having completed 2024's chapter will also be a mess.

Between the cliffhanger at the end of Necrom, and the Three Banners War peace treaty, I'm surprised more people don't see the problem with the "play however you want" philosophy.

You can tell ZOS wants to progress the story forward by introducing all these new interesting story elements, and I don't see how they can progress with the narrative and evolve their characters in a meaningful way if every new chapter is structured around newcomers.

Only the story content needs to be locked for people who haven't played previous chapters. The zone itself, side quests and everything else can remain the way they are right now. FFXIV greatly benefits from having mandatory story progression, and I think ESO can also benefit from it, while still having from freedom than FFXIV.

No, the story content doesn't need tobe locked.

If anyone decides to watch part 2 of a movie before watching part 1, it's his decision to make. Not yours, not mine, not anybody else's.

Same goes for eso. Not all people are here for the story, but for various other reasons. Some people even skip all dialogues, because they are only interested in the reward and move on.

Maybe you don't understand them, it's also not my playstyle, but if it's fitting for someone they have every right to do so.

There is no "correct" way or order to play this game. The whole suggestion is hilarious.

I mean, think again about your idea: You're in fact asking for gatekeeping of content and forcing all players into your playstyle, if they want to is irrelevant then.

Do you really want that? And if the answer is "yes", I would be interested in the reasoning behind that.

Ps: next time you quote someone try to do it complete.

If there is truly no correct order to play this game, then why can't you do the main quest itself out of order? Why can't the final quest of Necrom be done before even completing the first quest?
Following that logic, and assuming 2024's chapter is Necrom's direct continuation storywise, why should it allow for an out-of-order experience?

Continuity is important, and storytelling is important. Players who do not care about story and only play through the MQ for the rewards while skipping all the dialogue would not be the ones to care about locking story content behind progression. It's very strange to me seeing someone describe playing through a story as a "playstyle" and I find that notion dismissive of the medium. If people aren't playing ESO for the story, then they simply aren't going to play the story. I honestly don't think people who play through the MQ purely for the rewards even care about this idea, given that there are barely any rewards. Nothing stops them from speedrunning through the required content anyways.

I wouldn't be arguing about this if Necrom didn't end with a huge set-up for the future. It's probably one of the biggest things ESO has contributed to the Elder Scrolls franchise so far. It'd be a shame if it was relegated to what I think will happen.

For the sake of clarity: I do not want already-released content to be locked behind progression. Right now, I believe 2024 chapter's story needs to be locked to people who haven't completed Necrom. And just to be realistic here: I know they won't do this. 2024's chapter will probably only loosely address the elephant in the room. I hope I'm wrong.
Again: not saying the whole chapter should be locked. Just the main quest. Or at least, parts of the main quest that tie to Necrom.

Also, ESO does technically lock certain story content, albeit not to the extent I'm arguing for. You need to play Elsweyr/Dragonhold, Greymoor/Markarth, Blackwood/Deadlands and High Isle/Firesong in order to get the final main quest of each respective year-long story. They'll likely be doing something similar to whatever they have planned to resolve Necrom's cliffhanger.

PS: Not completely quoting someone is my playstyle.

Braffin · June 2023

TenebrisEquitem wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

TenebrisEquitem wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

I see no need to force people into a specific story order, but think this move would be most harmful to the game.

Sure, this game could do a lot better regarding clarity of story order for everyone interested.

But why forcing people into this order, if they choose to ignore it?

Have you played and finished Necrom's main quest when you wrote this?

I'm asking, because the main quest ends such a way that would make next year's chapter nonsensical if you haven't played Necrom. It'll be the equivalent of watching part 2 of a movie before watching part 1. Not to mention that jumping into Necrom after having completed 2024's chapter will also be a mess.

Between the cliffhanger at the end of Necrom, and the Three Banners War peace treaty, I'm surprised more people don't see the problem with the "play however you want" philosophy.

You can tell ZOS wants to progress the story forward by introducing all these new interesting story elements, and I don't see how they can progress with the narrative and evolve their characters in a meaningful way if every new chapter is structured around newcomers.

Only the story content needs to be locked for people who haven't played previous chapters. The zone itself, side quests and everything else can remain the way they are right now. FFXIV greatly benefits from having mandatory story progression, and I think ESO can also benefit from it, while still having from freedom than FFXIV.

No, the story content doesn't need tobe locked.

If anyone decides to watch part 2 of a movie before watching part 1, it's his decision to make. Not yours, not mine, not anybody else's.

Same goes for eso. Not all people are here for the story, but for various other reasons. Some people even skip all dialogues, because they are only interested in the reward and move on.

Maybe you don't understand them, it's also not my playstyle, but if it's fitting for someone they have every right to do so.

There is no "correct" way or order to play this game. The whole suggestion is hilarious.

I mean, think again about your idea: You're in fact asking for gatekeeping of content and forcing all players into your playstyle, if they want to is irrelevant then.

Do you really want that? And if the answer is "yes", I would be interested in the reasoning behind that.

Ps: next time you quote someone try to do it complete.

If there is truly no correct order to play this game, then why can't you do the main quest itself out of order? Why can't the final quest of Necrom be done before even completing the first quest?
Following that logic, and assuming 2024's chapter is Necrom's direct continuation storywise, why should it allow for an out-of-order experience?

Continuity is important, and storytelling is important. Players who do not care about story and only play through the MQ for the rewards while skipping all the dialogue would not be the ones to care about locking story content behind progression. It's very strange to me seeing someone describe playing through a story as a "playstyle" and I find that notion dismissive of the medium. If people aren't playing ESO for the story, then they simply aren't going to play the story. I honestly don't think people who play through the MQ purely for the rewards even care about this idea, given that there are barely any rewards. Nothing stops them from speedrunning through the required content anyways.

I wouldn't be arguing about this if Necrom didn't end with a huge set-up for the future. It's probably one of the biggest things ESO has contributed to the Elder Scrolls franchise so far. It'd be a shame if it was relegated to what I think will happen.

For the sake of clarity: I do not want already-released content to be locked behind progression. Right now, I believe 2024 chapter's story needs to be locked to people who haven't completed Necrom. And just to be realistic here: I know they won't do this. 2024's chapter will probably only loosely address the elephant in the room. I hope I'm wrong.
Again: not saying the whole chapter should be locked. Just the main quest. Or at least, parts of the main quest that tie to Necrom.

Also, ESO does technically lock certain story content, albeit not to the extent I'm arguing for. You need to play Elsweyr/Dragonhold, Greymoor/Markarth, Blackwood/Deadlands and High Isle/Firesong in order to get the final main quest of each respective year-long story. They'll likely be doing something similar to whatever they have planned to resolve Necrom's cliffhanger.

PS: Not completely quoting someone is my playstyle.

Well, it won't be more broken than playing greenshade before meeting naemon for the first time in auridon, for example

But as we both already know, they won't force-lock people out of content this discussion is pointless anyways.

Let's hope for a proper roadmap, so nobody is playing out of story order by accident and leave it be.

amapola76 · June 2023

Nope. Never gonna happen.

As others have said, they could certainly do more with cues to strongly encourage players to play Necrom before the next chapter. Personally-- and maybe this is cheesy and old-school, and just nostalgia for the early days of WoW, not to mention the stand-alone ES games-- but I actually miss the age of cutscenes. Buy the next chapter, download it, fire it up, and boom! There's a little scene that automatically plays out, which pulls you into the story, but alludes to the most recent events/what happened in the last chapter. There is absolutely a way to do that, and write the script in such a way that many players who have not already finished the last chapter will be drawn in to want to do so.

The operative word here being want, not compelled.

They could also do more with the marketing/trailers/lead-up during the months before the release to emphasize that Necrom leads directly into the new chapter. But if after all that, people still want to skip around, it should be their choice.

After all, ZOS would basically have two choices: (a) not sell the new chapter to those who haven't finished Necrom, which is clearly laughable and would never happen, or (b) sell the chapter but not let people play it until the content is unlocked, which... whew. Can you imagine the outrage? Do you know what that would do to sales? And not just sales in general, but to collector's editions, and all the peripheral spending that people do in advance of a chapter? I can't think of a better way for a company to shoot itself in the foot.

SilverBride · June 2023

One Tamriel gave us the ability to "Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!". There is no reason to change this.