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Brittle + Critical Damage?
Solariken
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As I understand the cap on player critical damage is 100%. But does anyone know, or have the ability to test, whether Major/Minor Brittle allows for bigger criticals hits?
In other words, if I'm at the 100% cap and I place Minor Brittle on my target, can I achieve +110% damage?
For reference Minor Brittle is +10% critical damage taken.
In other words, if I'm at the 100% cap and I place Minor Brittle on my target, can I achieve +110% damage?
For reference Minor Brittle is +10% critical damage taken.
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IIRC it's +125% Critical Damage and, yes, all sources of either damage done or damage taken stack to reach that cap.3 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
This is my suspicion as well. I'd bet there is no way around it with them being in different parts of the calculation.
Problem is i, I don't have the ability to test right now.
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
It doesn't.
Critical Damage is calculated as its own coefficient that is multiplied against your computed base damage separately. So you get the full benefit of the modifier in a way that you don't with +Damage Done mods.2 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
It doesn't.
Critical Damage is calculated as its own coefficient that is multiplied against your computed base damage separately. So you get the full benefit of the modifier in a way that you don't with +Damage Done mods.
Enlightening, thank you.
But just to be clear, you are sure that brittle on a target has 0 effect for an attacker already at crit cap?
Because if I read your last comment right it seems like you're explaining how crit damage gets added to regular damage. But that isn't what's being asked.0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
It doesn't.
Critical Damage is calculated as its own coefficient that is multiplied against your computed base damage separately. So you get the full benefit of the modifier in a way that you don't with +Damage Done mods.
Enlightening, thank you.
But just to be clear, you are sure that brittle on a target has 0 effect for an attacker already at crit cap?
Because if I read your last comment right it seems like you're explaining how crit damage gets added to regular damage. But that isn't what's being asked.
My understanding is no matter what, 125% is a hard cap. Any crit over that is wasted.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 4/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 24/26 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My understanding is no matter what, 125% is a hard cap. Any crit over that is wasted.
Yes but Brittle isn't a buff to your character, it's a debuff on the enemy, which would lead me to believe it might be separate. I'd love to be able to hop on the PTS and make a crit dmg capped Arcanist to test it out but I won't be able to before Necrom launch.Edited by Solariken on 26 May 2023 00:100 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My understanding is no matter what, 125% is a hard cap. Any crit over that is wasted.
Yes but Brittle isn't a buff to your character, it's a debuff on the enemy, which would lead me to believe it might be separate. I'd love to be able to hop on the PTS and make a crit dmg capped Arcanist to test it out but I won't be able to before Necrom launch.
Why arcanist specifically? Also, elemental catalyst and major brittle are also on the enemy but they are also known to contribute towards the 125% cap. We see this in parses where now the meta is to not have backstabber or fighting finesse on because EC was added to the dummy. We also see this in trial content, where nunatak isn't used since there's no point.Edited by Soarora on 26 May 2023 06:01PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 4/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 24/26 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My understanding is no matter what, 125% is a hard cap. Any crit over that is wasted.
Yes but Brittle isn't a buff to your character, it's a debuff on the enemy, which would lead me to believe it might be separate. I'd love to be able to hop on the PTS and make a crit dmg capped Arcanist to test it out but I won't be able to before Necrom launch.
Why arcanist specifically? Also, elemental catalyst and major brittle are also on the enemy but they are also known to contribute towards the 125% cap. We see this in parses where now the meta is to not have backstabber or fighting finesse on because EC was added to the dummy. We also see this in trial content, where nunatak isn't used since there's no point.
minor brittle is on the trial dummy, not major brittle.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 26 May 2023 16:54PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »My understanding is no matter what, 125% is a hard cap. Any crit over that is wasted.
Yes but Brittle isn't a buff to your character, it's a debuff on the enemy, which would lead me to believe it might be separate. I'd love to be able to hop on the PTS and make a crit dmg capped Arcanist to test it out but I won't be able to before Necrom launch.
Why arcanist specifically? Also, elemental catalyst and major brittle are also on the enemy but they are also known to contribute towards the 125% cap. We see this in parses where now the meta is to not have backstabber or fighting finesse on because EC was added to the dummy. We also see this in trial content, where nunatak isn't used since there's no point.
minor brittle is on the trial dummy, not major brittle.
I didn’t say major brittle is on the dummy, I said major brittle is applied to enemies not the player.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 4/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 24/26 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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Weckless✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
It doesn't.
Critical Damage is calculated as its own coefficient that is multiplied against your computed base damage separately. So you get the full benefit of the modifier in a way that you don't with +Damage Done mods.
Idk I recently watched a video of someone and they compared khajit crits vs dark elf crits and because of the high critical damage multiplier they already had khajit was only increasing their crits by about 5% where as the flat stats from dunmer were increasing them by 6-7% so that would imply some form of diminishing returns somewhere in the calculation. And no they werent at crit cap.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
It doesn't.
Critical Damage is calculated as its own coefficient that is multiplied against your computed base damage separately. So you get the full benefit of the modifier in a way that you don't with +Damage Done mods.
Idk I recently watched a video of someone and they compared khajit crits vs dark elf crits and because of the high critical damage multiplier they already had khajit was only increasing their crits by about 5% where as the flat stats from dunmer were increasing them by 6-7% so that would imply some form of diminishing returns somewhere in the calculation. And no they werent at crit cap.
I think that's outdated; it used to be true but ZOS caught wind of it and buffed Khajiit crit dmg to where it is now.0 -
Weckless✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm gonna go ahead and bet the opposite. I've often heard people say that putting minor vulnerability on people is mathematically about the same as having major berserk on yourself. Because there aren't a lot of damage taken modifiers but there are a lot of damage done modifiers. So you get the full 5% out of vulnerability but diminishing returns out of berserk.
Similarly, I would expect brittle to function separately, and indeed increase your critical damage even if you were at cap.
It doesn't.
Critical Damage is calculated as its own coefficient that is multiplied against your computed base damage separately. So you get the full benefit of the modifier in a way that you don't with +Damage Done mods.
Idk I recently watched a video of someone and they compared khajit crits vs dark elf crits and because of the high critical damage multiplier they already had khajit was only increasing their crits by about 5% where as the flat stats from dunmer were increasing them by 6-7% so that would imply some form of diminishing returns somewhere in the calculation. And no they werent at crit cap.
I think that's outdated; it used to be true but ZOS caught wind of it and buffed Khajiit crit dmg to where it is now.
This was from this patch0