Cyro PvP: My Balance Ideas

Starbridge84 · April 2023

I'm not much of a PvP person but I have my moments where I enjoy roaming around Cyrodiil and every time I do I cannot help be massively bothered seeing a giant checkerboard of colored keeps. AD can control the whole map and a group of DC can go right to their gate keeps and take them, in theory with no opposition. It just doesn't make sense.

The keeps have pathway lines for a reason, so why are these not used to control where the front line is? IE - You can only capture keeps/outposts/towns that you are connected to it.

My ideas for better a Cyrodiil experience:

Remove the lock-lines on the border of the map. Just poof them.

Home bases have incoming and outgoing teleports. (Like they have now)

Outposts only have incoming teleporters. Port to when not under siege or allow a port to it with a 10m debuff preventing another port if under siege. (Carmala, Nickle, Bleaker's, etc)
(Debuff route allows for clutch planning a defense)
Sub outposts can be ported to if you are connected or not. As well as porting to it while it's under attack. (Carmala, Winter's Peak, Harlun's)
(Increasing release/respawn timer to 45s and start that timer when you chose to release/respawn; this would force players to really think about waiting for a res or needing to release ASAP to try and make it back in time)
Towns only have outgoing teleports, because trade/recruits. (Bruma, Vlastarus, Cropsford)
(These changes to outposts/towns give factions a reason to fight for the control of them rather then just doing it to get your attuned crafting stations or just a cheap cap because no one is paying attention to it.)

Towns send out a buff every 15m to a random keep your team controls. (as long as its connected) Giving guards more damage/armor/quicker spawns/etc.

You can only capture resources 1 jump away from a connected keep/outpost.
Keep resources need to play a bigger part in defense of a keep or trying to capture it. (Because this says they have 5 levels https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Keeps and I have been watching this one keep for the last 3 hours controlled by the same faction and it hasn't moved higher than level 2)

Traveling on a road should give an additional speed bonus. Removed because coding would be a total nightmare.

Picture of two very out of place captures. Red resource cap on left side and blue cap on Bleaker's.

Picture of town buff idea and the areas they cover.

This would be a good place to start with some changes in Cyro PvP. Not perfect, but surely a better then what we have going on now. Will give added control value to towns and outposts.

As a side note, Nightblade's vanish ability should have a debuff that increases the cost if you continue to cast it. Much like dodge rolling. Because we have NBs doing the stupid suicide bomber thing and then they just run away spamming vanish, which is stupid, cheap and OP problem. And since a lot of builds out there for NB focus on this, they have wiggled in unlimited magicka sustain so they are literally invisible all the time... and you have the audacity to say Oakensoul is OP for PvE content.

Necrotech_Master · April 2023

being able to only cap something connected is not unheard of (thats how it works in planetside 2)

the problem with that is the map would heavily stalemate unless the map was like unbalanced pop and it would be almost impossible to go after scrolls or get the skyshards behind the gates

take brindle for example, when is red ever going to have a connection to that? they would have to control either ash or roe to even attempt to go after it, and a problem adding an extra buff to the town (they do already have a buff for controlling them like owning keeps) is that the edge keep would have be controlled in order to even make a play on it (same with those edge outposts like carmala or harluns or winters peak)

this would likely cause 90% of the fighting to end up taking place at basically the emp keeps (probably alessia, ash, bleakers)

Ratzkifal · April 2023

I disagree with locking things that isn't connected to the front line. Part of the skill right now comes from coordinating two groups to attack multiple keeps at once so that the enemy cannot respond to the main attack fast enough because keeps on the way are tagged. That is how you can break a stalemate.

Also keep in mind that resource captures are part of quests that you can solo. If we only allow for resources to be captured if they are on the front lines, you will never be able to complete these PvP missions solo. Some people want to be able to get AP without fighting other players and scouting missions as well as these resource capture missions can allow them to do that.

The town buff idea is certainly interesting and adding reasons for using the roads is also nice, although I think giving them a speed buff would lag the game too much. (Lots of area calculations would have to be done for that to work, which creates lag.)

The change I want to see is NPCs pushing towards enemy keeps like minions in a moba game. That can create some interesting scenarios where people are trying to push their NPCs towards a keep, or you intentionally try to create a fight in another part of the map so that your attacking NPCs "splitpush" without encountering player resistance required to stop them. I think this sort of dynamic could make Cyrodiil more interesting for a while. Especially because that could make PvE builds relevant in the alliance war without necessarily making them good in PvP. It doesn't even have to be active forever, but maybe just during an event or only on weekends or something.
Anything to breathe some life into it will do, so long as its balanced and fun.

ZOS_Hadeostry · April 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

Starbridge84 · April 2023

.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I disagree with locking things that isn't connected to the front line. Part of the skill right now comes from coordinating two groups to attack multiple keeps at once so that the enemy cannot respond to the main attack fast enough because keeps on the way are tagged. That is how you can break a stalemate.

Also keep in mind that resource captures are part of quests that you can solo. If we only allow for resources to be captured if they are on the front lines, you will never be able to complete these PvP missions solo. Some people want to be able to get AP without fighting other players and scouting missions as well as these resource capture missions can allow them to do that.

The town buff idea is certainly interesting and adding reasons for using the roads is also nice, although I think giving them a speed buff would lag the game too much. (Lots of area calculations would have to be done for that to work, which creates lag.)

The change I want to see is NPCs pushing towards enemy keeps like minions in a moba game. That can create some interesting scenarios where people are trying to push their NPCs towards a keep, or you intentionally try to create a fight in another part of the map so that your attacking NPCs "splitpush" without encountering player resistance required to stop them. I think this sort of dynamic could make Cyrodiil more interesting for a while. Especially because that could make PvE builds relevant in the alliance war without necessarily making them good in PvP. It doesn't even have to be active forever, but maybe just during an event or only on weekends or something.
Anything to breathe some life into it will do, so long as its balanced and fun.

There are dozens of other quests to do that you can gain AP with that do not involve going to bases or putting you in a situation where you would run into other players frequently (likely), unless those players are doing the same thing.

Kaizor88 · May 2023

its as simple as that, ZOS need to make a new campaign (Creative Campaign) and test new things and features. A new campaign without being afraid of adding new stuff to Cyrodiil. idk sometimes I feel they are a bit worried or afraid to touch Cyrodiil because of how lovely the pvp community is

.

Starbridge84 · May 2023

Kaizor88 wrote: »

its as simple as that, ZOS need to make a new campaign (Creative Campaign) and test new things and features. A new campaign without being afraid of adding new stuff to Cyrodiil. idk sometimes I feel they are a bit worried or afraid to touch Cyrodiil because of how lovely the pvp community is .

Is that a joke? 40% of the classes are nightblades, 40% are invincible dragon knights and the other 20% are just a mix of whatever. There is zero balance happening as far as AvA is concerned. Like, just now DC was working on taking a keep from EP, and AD comes in behind, sweeps up the few DC doing it and takes the keep. Totally legit if you ask me IF they had a keep connected!

I would love to see other campaign modes, but most of all I would like to see some class balance. I heard on a stream that one of the dev's favorite classes is nightblade... oh weird, that might explain why they are stupid powerful. >.>

Starbridge84 · May 2023

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I am pretty sure the RP community would go BONKERS if there was a non-PvP Cyro were the keeps were all neutral. Would definitely need to have a much higher pop cap.

geonsocal · May 2023

Starbridge84 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I am pretty sure the RP community would go BONKERS if there was a non-PvP Cyro were the keeps were all neutral. Would definitely need to have a much higher pop cap.

was this the TLDR version?

all we really need in cyro - better game performance...and get rid of the stupid lagfest hammer...

Starbridge84 · May 2023

geonsocal wrote: »

Starbridge84 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I am pretty sure the RP community would go BONKERS if there was a non-PvP Cyro were the keeps were all neutral. Would definitely need to have a much higher pop cap.

was this the TLDR version?

all we really need in cyro - better game performance...and get rid of the stupid lagfest hammer...

Heh. No. I am a roleplayer, but getting that will never happen. Would also make a good place to put some new houses. Anyway... AvA needs a massive overhaul. Sticking to only being able to take adjacent keep would be a good start.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

Starbridge84 wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

Starbridge84 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I am pretty sure the RP community would go BONKERS if there was a non-PvP Cyro were the keeps were all neutral. Would definitely need to have a much higher pop cap.

was this the TLDR version?

all we really need in cyro - better game performance...and get rid of the stupid lagfest hammer...

Heh. No. I am a roleplayer, but getting that will never happen. Would also make a good place to put some new houses. Anyway... AvA needs a massive overhaul. Sticking to only being able to take adjacent keep would be a good start.

again if they did this they would have to move those skyshards behind the gates, or it will be nigh impossible to get them (or scrolls) without either a completely dead enemy faction or a full population zerg to gate the enemy

not to mention if you did take enemy scrolls and put them at say your tri keeps (being AD if you put scrolls at bloodmayne and black boot), the enemy faction would have to basically gate you in order to get the scrolls back if they couldnt even attack the keeps due to them not being connected

works great if your faction is the one zerging all the time, you will never lose the campaign this way lol

geonsocal · May 2023

Starbridge84 wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

Starbridge84 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I am pretty sure the RP community would go BONKERS if there was a non-PvP Cyro were the keeps were all neutral. Would definitely need to have a much higher pop cap.

was this the TLDR version?

all we really need in cyro - better game performance...and get rid of the stupid lagfest hammer...

Heh. No. I am a roleplayer, but getting that will never happen. Would also make a good place to put some new houses. Anyway... AvA needs a massive overhaul. Sticking to only being able to take adjacent keep would be a good start.

here's something funny for you - the only role playing I do in eso is in cyrodiil and related to the 3 alliance war...

I get in to the whole - serving your faction and trying to stop the other alliances from taking over the map...