What kind of aspect will it be the reason for kicking fake healer?

AvalonRanger · April 2023

What kind of aspect will it be the reason for kicking fake healer?
If you're well experienced player of Vet group dungeon, then write here your opinion.

LunaFlora · April 2023

i chose Because, couldn't heal any of group member. Or just ignored healer role behavior.
because if you're not healing you're not a healer.

it is best to use a restoration staff but it's possible to heal without one. so couldn't choose number 1. however if someone is the healer role and they dont use a restoration staff i am suspicious of them until i see them actually healing.

Soarora · April 2023

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

disintegr8 · April 2023

I would only run a random vet dungeon with a pre-made group. When you have all DLC's (or ESO+) I wouldn't risk getting put in a hard vet DLC dungeon with people I don't know.

AvalonRanger · April 2023

Soarora wrote: »

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

Can you notice what kind of gear is healer wearing?

AvalonRanger · April 2023

LunaFlora wrote: »

i chose Because, couldn't heal any of group member. Or just ignored healer role behavior.
because if you're not healing you're not a healer.

it is best to use a restoration staff but it's possible to heal without one. so couldn't choose number 1. however if someone is the healer role and they dont use a restoration staff i am suspicious of them until i see them actually healing.

Agree.

Yesterday, I saw "almost fake" healer who couldn't heal team member.
That dude had multiple bad aspect (at least 3 of them) which I felt dude was FAKE HELAER.

I did enough amount of taunt to avoid direct damage, but our DPS couldn't work at the last boss because
almost couldn't get effective healing. After the several times nonsense DPS death, I decided leaving.

Soarora · April 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

Can you notice what kind of gear is healer wearing?

Yes. You can see things like worm cult and olorime visually. Spell power cure and master architect/roaring opportunist can see in your buffs (major courage). If a healer isn’t using spc I get suspicious. Once you use proc sets enough yourself you can recognize when other people are using them.

AvalonRanger · April 2023

Soarora wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

Can you notice what kind of gear is healer wearing?

Yes. You can see things like worm cult and olorime visually. Spell power cure and master architect/roaring opportunist can see in your buffs (major courage). If a healer isn’t using spc I get suspicious. Once you use proc sets enough yourself you can recognize when other people are using them.

Thanks for your interesting information.

AvalonRanger · April 2023

Soarora wrote: »

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

I have one more question. Winter's Respite Skyrim overland set looks like good healer gear. But
most of people want to require "spell power cure dungeon set of "White gold tower" for the healer.

Can you explain the reason why SPC is the best healer gear for the grouping mission?

Someone uploaded testing Winter's respite set video here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eAfqKHES0

LunaFlora · April 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

I have one more question. Winter's Respite Skyrim overland set looks like good healer gear. But
most of people want to require "spell power cure dungeon set of "White gold tower" for the healer.

Can you explain the reason why SPC is the best healer gear for the grouping mission?

Someone uploaded testing Winter's respite set video here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eAfqKHES0

you can use winter's respite but it only gives an extra healing aoe, not a damage buff like Major Courage that spell power cure gives. if you want to use it it's best to use it with spell power cure

FrancisCrawford · April 2023

Major Courage give 430 Spell Power/Weapon Power as a base. Add 20% for a buff everybody has. Add another 10% if there's a templar in the group with a Dawn's Wrath skill in the rotation.

516 or maybe 559 Spell/Weapon Powr is most cases over a 6% boost to total DPS, and in many cases 7%+.

Actually, I've been working on Oakensoul/HA builds that incorporate SPC. I did my highest 3m dummy parse ever on a build that used three damage skills, providing Major Breach, Minor Breach, Off-Balance, and Minor Vulnerability, leaving 2 skills slots for heals. It worked fine duoing a normal DLC dungeon. I harder content I'd tweak the skillbar to something like:

Screaming Cliff Racer
Deep Fissure
Green Lotus (unused in the parse)
Energy Orb (unused in the parse)
Enchanted Growth (instead of Fetcherflies in the parse)
A morph of Trees (instead of Wild Guardian in the parse)

Templar might work more smoothly for healing than Warden, but would be weaker on the debuffs. Necromancer would probably work too.

FrancisCrawford · April 2023

LunaFlora wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

It’s all about healing. If people are dying to things due to bad/no healing to the point that the content is impossible unless they are replaced, they get kicked. Or if they’re a dps running ahead of everyone making everyone else unhappy.

I have a healer in spc/pillar of nirn with no restro and I can heal vet dlc so it’s not all gear.

I have one more question. Winter's Respite Skyrim overland set looks like good healer gear. But
most of people want to require "spell power cure dungeon set of "White gold tower" for the healer.

Can you explain the reason why SPC is the best healer gear for the grouping mission?

Someone uploaded testing Winter's respite set video here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eAfqKHES0

you can use winter's respite but it only gives an extra healing aoe, not a damage buff like Major Courage that spell power cure gives. if you want to use it it's best to use it with spell power cure

Right. The main gear decision for a healer is what sets you wear in addition to SPC.

AvalonRanger · April 2023

@LunaFlora
@FrancisCrawford
>>Thanks for educating me.

"Major Courage give 430 Spell Power/Weapon Power as a base...."
OK. So, damage is more important than healing chance.

However...I've seen many of "quick dead DPS team member" in Vet dungeon including normal
scrivener's hall of first boss as tank main player myself. And, combat usually became solo tank fighting
even with enough amount of taunting work, or wiped including me sometimes because of losing
something "cleanse effect" of the healer.

(I'm not healer specialist, maybe I don't have enough amount of knowledge of healer tactics.)

Those type of quick dead DPS usually mimic typical bad YouTuber building tutorial, just like
"no defense tactics", "zero attribute point of health and go everything stamina or magika",
"everything for the damage". And, came to dungeon work without any of buff food....

Well, I think dead DPS is zero damage regardless how big canon they have.

Do you people still think damage buff is more important than healing support?
Or, those quick dead DPS is just terrible players?

LunaFlora · April 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

@LunaFlora
@FrancisCrawford
>>Thanks for educating me.

"Major Courage give 430 Spell Power/Weapon Power as a base...."
OK. So, damage is more important than healing chance.

However...I've seen many of "quick dead DPS team member" in Vet dungeon including normal
scrivener's hall of first boss as tank main player myself. And, combat usually became solo tank fighting
even with enough amount of taunting work, or wiped including me sometimes because of losing
something "cleanse effect" of the healer.

(I'm not healer specialist, maybe I don't have enough amount of knowledge of healer tactics.)

Those type of quick dead DPS usually mimic typical bad YouTuber building tutorial, just like
"no defense tactics", "zero attribute point of health and go everything stamina or magika",
"everything for the damage". And, came to dungeon work without any of buff food....

Well, I think dead DPS is zero damage regardless how big canon they have.

Do you people still think damage buff is more important than healing support?
Or, those quick dead DPS is just terrible players?

you know i said it's best to use winter's respite with spell power cure, right? you're supposed to already be using healing skills. as a healer you're supposed support your team that includes healing and giving buffs that help them. a damage buff helps the damage dealers.

Soarora · April 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

@LunaFlora
@FrancisCrawford
>>Thanks for educating me.

"Major Courage give 430 Spell Power/Weapon Power as a base...."
OK. So, damage is more important than healing chance.

However...I've seen many of "quick dead DPS team member" in Vet dungeon including normal
scrivener's hall of first boss as tank main player myself. And, combat usually became solo tank fighting
even with enough amount of taunting work, or wiped including me sometimes because of losing
something "cleanse effect" of the healer.

(I'm not healer specialist, maybe I don't have enough amount of knowledge of healer tactics.)

Those type of quick dead DPS usually mimic typical bad YouTuber building tutorial, just like
"no defense tactics", "zero attribute point of health and go everything stamina or magika",
"everything for the damage". And, came to dungeon work without any of buff food....

Well, I think dead DPS is zero damage regardless how big canon they have.

Do you people still think damage buff is more important than healing support?
Or, those quick dead DPS is just terrible players?

Well, non-tanks in PvE should put all attributes to mag or stam for more damage, you can stay alive fine with like 23k health as a non-tank. But scriveners hall yes the dps should each run a HoT like vigor. Healer can’t chase them both during book runs. So it could’ve been the DPS not doing mechs or preparing correctly or the healer could not have been healing enough. More heals doesn’t mean better healer, strong heals used well and buff/debuff uptimes do. A good healer doesn’t need any sets like winters respite (only good when no ones moving anyway) or sanctuary in most content. Also spc boosts healing, healing scales like damage does (weap/spell dmg and max resource).

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

@DarcyMardin and I duoed the Scrivener's Hall book fight without too much trouble ... once we figured out that books needed to be found twice at a time.

But we also can each heal ourselves when needed, and we tend to take companions who can heal as well.

One thing: It's generally good practice to keep your group members at full health pretty aggressively. Indeed, the SPC set pretty much asssumes you'll do that.

Also, nothing else is more important than keep your group members alive. So whatever else you do, you'll also want "burst" heals for emergencies. (Anybody for whom that's not good advice is a much more advanced player than you or I are.)

What class(es) would you like to heal on?

AvalonRanger · May 2023

[Conclusion]
Consider people's opinion, this is my conclusion.
Fake healer = couldn't heal any of group member. Or just ignored healer role behavior.
Hybrid PSC set+ Winter's respite set will be great healer equipment.

1. What is the real healer?
Real healer must have both damage buff and effective healing technique.
If you don't have it, you're not healer. Queue as healer without those ability, then
you're almost fake. Should be kicked, or other role player will leave from group mission.

2.Glass canon is basic build for DPS, It's not wrong.
ZOS did wrong game design at the Scrivener's hall. It's not player's fault.
ZOS must fix all wrong game balance of group mission contents.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

if the context of the dungeon run is a vet dungeon, and the healer is a fake healer, if your in a dlc dungeon i would say good luck getting through the first boss unless all of the dps are running cross heals (3x echoing vigor, and maybe another aoe heal like cleansing ritual from templar) and really know what they are doing, but i dont know if you would expect to do any hard modes

some dungeons actually do have heal checks (first boss on bal sunnar for example with manipulate), and if you dont have a healer, its going to be difficult to survive that along with all of the other incoming dmg

valenwood_vegan · May 2023

I run [edited to specify] vet dungeons with friends and guildies and never have to stress about these things. It's nice.

Soarora · May 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if the context of the dungeon run is a vet dungeon, and the healer is a fake healer, if your in a dlc dungeon i would say good luck getting through the first boss unless all of the dps are running cross heals (3x echoing vigor, and maybe another aoe heal like cleansing ritual from templar) and really know what they are doing, but i dont know if you would expect to do any hard modes

some dungeons actually do have heal checks (first boss on bal sunnar for example with manipulate), and if you dont have a healer, its going to be difficult to survive that along with all of the other incoming dmg

Eh, it really depends on the dungeon. Unfortunately a lot of dlc dungeons don’t require a healer, even with half decent pugs. Unhallowed Grave for instance I’ve trifecta’d multiple times with 3 DPS, including in pugs, without needing to run cross heals. MGF, BS, SH, ERE, likely GD, DoM, etc. do need a healer in most if not all cases though.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

Soarora wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if the context of the dungeon run is a vet dungeon, and the healer is a fake healer, if your in a dlc dungeon i would say good luck getting through the first boss unless all of the dps are running cross heals (3x echoing vigor, and maybe another aoe heal like cleansing ritual from templar) and really know what they are doing, but i dont know if you would expect to do any hard modes

some dungeons actually do have heal checks (first boss on bal sunnar for example with manipulate), and if you dont have a healer, its going to be difficult to survive that along with all of the other incoming dmg

Eh, it really depends on the dungeon. Unfortunately a lot of dlc dungeons don’t require a healer, even with half decent pugs. Unhallowed Grave for instance I’ve trifecta’d multiple times with 3 DPS, including in pugs, without needing to run cross heals. MGF, BS, SH, ERE, likely GD, DoM, etc. do need a healer in most if not all cases though.

sure in a pre-form, but i wouldnt expect that kind of stuff from say a fully random group in the queue unless you get lucky lol

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What kind of aspect will it be the reason for kicking fake healer?

What kind of aspect will it be the reason for kicking fake healer? 30 votes