Everything wrong with this Battleground event ( Crazy King)

Starlight_Knight · April 2023

Nobody asked for this event ! ( its the worst game type by miles )

There was no prior warning this event was coming up!

It's actively discouraging “PVP” causing players to literally run away from fights to go to the next flag. There's no escape - it's every map.

Every map is full of tanks. all the pve'ers are coming in with builds specifically designed to avoid pvp and just stand on flags. People are winning the map by scoring 0/0/0

Leaderboards STILL dont work ( they never have, always been bugged )

Since when has a weekend been 5 days ? That is WAY TOO LONG for the event. By the end they're all just going to be treated as deathmatch anyway.

What this has done is its actually removed "PVP" from battlegrounds. One of the things i look forward to doing eveyday.

Thankyou for reading - Please discuss below.

xylena_lazarow · April 2023

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

It's actively discouraging “PVP” causing players to literally run away from fights to go to the next flag.... Every map is full of tanks... coming in with builds specifically designed to avoid pvp and just stand on flags. People are winning the map by scoring 0/0/0

Thanks for putting into words why I despise the Crazy King game mode so much, literally rewarding doing zero damage and/or running away from fights. You want something sad, it's not just PvE players with those anti-PvP builds, it's 9yr PvP vets and everyone in between. They're all over Cyro too, basically just clogging up fights and making it not even worth engaging until you massively outnumber them and can trivially zerg their team down.

Starlight_Knight · April 2023

Yes agreed - that is a big problem - the tanks and pvp dodgers.

Ive had a few hate tells and whispers today as now all of a sudden i'm the toxic one for wanting to pvp.

Somone asked why i ran into a fight that was 1 v 4. well last i checked there was 3 people behind me but they all ran to the flag that was further away with nobody on it....

the second hate tell i had was from a pve tank thing that i gave up trying to kill and he asked me "why i ran away from a 1v1" so i said ill 1v1 you where are you ill come to you, i asked him 5 times but in the end he chickened out and admitted he wasn't running a 1v1 pvp build... My mind is blown by this strange behavior exaggerated by this silly event.

the1andonlyskwex · April 2023

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Every map is full of tanks. all the pve'ers are coming in with builds specifically designed to avoid pvp and just stand on flags. People are winning the map by scoring 0/0/0

Why would people build as tanks of they're avoiding PvP? Shouldn't they be running max speed builds instead?

Also, there are only 1-2 flags for most of the game, so it's basically impossible to win without engaging in some sort of PvP to capture/defend those flags.

Starlight_Knight · April 2023

I guess holding block with 50+k HP is in fact "some sort of pvp"

KiltMaster · April 2023

aw man I love crazy kings

I do OK in BG's - not top of kills, but I love playing the objective

it's strategy - you gonna stay and defend your flag? you going to try to capture multiple and mow down people in the way?

That said, it does seem like when they do a battleground weekend they do rotate through the different game types, so at least they'll end up hitting them all eventually

Starlight_Knight · April 2023

The way you describe it you make it sound good, and i'm glad you enjoy it, i love battlegrounds
( i wish there were some maps ) but the issue with Crazy King is now people are building just for this event so as you put it "stay and defend your flag"

Just stand on it and hold block, nobody is actually getting killed, it's a full tank meta. I just did one and did over 2.5 million damage and got 1 kill.. and came last out of my team, as this game type actively discourages fighting, healing, dealing damage of anysort, and getting kills....

The guy who won said match scored 0/0/0 again! He did <100k damage <100k healing and didn't die once. but he won because he "defended his flag"

My point is,.. this isn't pvp.

Its like a pve activity disguised as pvp. This is also prevalent in cyrodiil as well with guilds running around taking empty keeps and avoiding fights. but that's another subject and avoidable.

This is not avoidable as its every match. Us pvpers want pvp. not, whatever this is

Amerises · April 2023

I agree with everything OP said, however I do like the game type when it’s random.

I really wish they would fix the leaderboards too. Not just events, but in general.

gariondavey · April 2023

It's just dm with no limit on kills

Friends have been sending ss of their scoreboards with 50+ kills today while I was at work XD
But I agree with the criticisms of op.

OBJnoob · April 2023

@gariondavey you have multiple friends getting 50 kills but you agree that crazy king is full of non-fighting? Weird.

The problem is that half (or whatever,) want to play the game-mode for what it is and the other half want to pretend it's DM. Well no, actually that alone isn't a problem. The problem is complaining about something you inflict on yourself. Like... Of course you're gonna lose if you ONLY go after kills. And you should be okay with that since you choose it over and over and over again.

Meanwhile I'm over here standing on a flag, 10-0, laughing at the guy on the losing team with 50 kills AND laughing at the 0-20 guy who tried to cheese the mode but couldn't because I was there. They are equally ridiculous. And both are rather bad at the game. The game being Crazy King.

Urzigurumash · April 2023

Again, revert the HoT-DoT-Spammable ratios to their Elsweyr levels.

Starlight_Knight · April 2023

^

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Again, revert the HoT-DoT-Spammable ratios to their Elsweyr levels.

This may adress the issue of the tank meta but in Crazy King players will still be rewarded for doing 0 kills, dealing 0 damage, 0 healing and 0 assists.
So it will always be the case that Crazy King is the map with the leased amount of PVP in it. and its scoring system will activly discourage it.

Dem_kitkats1 · April 2023

Crazy King is one of my favorite modes actually; especially the first half. It's an objective mode that actually encourages combat and works fine with the 3 team format.

Yes people can cheese the mode, but you can do that as well in all of the other modes. Healing and mitigation is just a problem in PvP in general.

However, I do agree that they should fix the leaderboards and adjust the scoring system to actively encourage damaging and killing people, rather than simply capping, holding an objective, & not dying.

You may not enjoy the modes, but there are so little sources of extra AP that scrapping the events would be a shame imo.

KiltMaster · April 2023

Yeah that's totally fair - tank meta is disgusting right now IMO

Soarora · April 2023

I really don't like these battleground weekends no matter which game mode it is. I enjoy all game modes but specifically avoid doing battlegrounds during the events... I guess good for rewards given only by specific game modes but as for regular play it definitely doesn't make me want to do battlegrounds any more than usual... midyear mayhem does.

tokeinskyblu · April 2023

Maybe a possible change could be you get points for kills, and more points per flag you hold.

gariondavey · April 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

@gariondavey you have multiple friends getting 50 kills but you agree that crazy king is full of non-fighting? Weird.

The problem is that half (or whatever,) want to play the game-mode for what it is and the other half want to pretend it's DM. Well no, actually that alone isn't a problem. The problem is complaining about something you inflict on yourself. Like... Of course you're gonna lose if you ONLY go after kills. And you should be okay with that since you choose it over and over and over again.

Meanwhile I'm over here standing on a flag, 10-0, laughing at the guy on the losing team with 50 kills AND laughing at the 0-20 guy who tried to cheese the mode but couldn't because I was there. They are equally ridiculous. And both are rather bad at the game. The game being Crazy King.

When people with 20k hp spawn, jump down with 0 buffs and heals up, and start sprinting to a flag...they easily get 2 tapped. So yeah you will see 50 kill games against people like that. The 20k hp people will be 0-12 with virtually no damage or healing because they die too fast. I wouldn't classify this as fighting.

Other games you get the hold-right-button-on-flag-in-maras-with-50k-hp types. They do 0 damage. I also would not classify this as fighting.

In group queue tonight I was with 3 friends and we ended up against another 4 man premade, with 3rd team being probably duos or just a really inexperienced premade. My premade wiped everyone on the flag. The semi decent 4 man fought us quite a bit but the inexperienced one just scattered to the wind to flags, clearly not intended to have another full on fight. So the game was cut short, in group queue, by some people who avoided fighting.

Skoomah · April 2023

Mastery of battlegrounds requires both winning the objective and winning outnumbered fights as the game mode is progressing. Both the pure deathmatchers that only fight and pure objective players that don’t fight are missing the point. There’s an extra layer of depth and challenge to the game if you strive to do both well in a match. These p***ing matches back and forth for years on end now of DM vs OBJ players is getting so old. These debates always turn nasty and unproductive.

OBJnoob · April 2023

gariondavey wrote: »

When people with 20k hp spawn, jump down with 0 buffs and heals up, and start sprinting to a flag...they easily get 2 tapped. So yeah you will see 50 kill games against people like that. The 20k hp people will be 0-12 with virtually no damage or healing because they die too fast. I wouldn't classify this as fighting.

Other games you get the hold-right-button-on-flag-in-maras-with-50k-hp types. They do 0 damage. I also would not classify this as fighting.

In group queue tonight I was with 3 friends and we ended up against another 4 man premade, with 3rd team being probably duos or just a really inexperienced premade. My premade wiped everyone on the flag. The semi decent 4 man fought us quite a bit but the inexperienced one just scattered to the wind to flags, clearly not intended to have another full on fight. So the game was cut short, in group queue, by some people who avoided fighting.

Oh, I'm not doubting that you and your friends can get 50 kills. I understand the circumstances that let this happen.

I'm just not sure why you fault the players who, after getting their butt handed to them 5 times in a row, might try to run to an unoccupied flag instead of into the meat grinder again. I think for the most part PvPers do want to "actually PvP," as you would say-- but equally ubiquitous I think is the desire to not get farmed for 15 minutes straight.

Like if I'm crown in cyrodiil and my group wipes 3 times at Arrius to a red group that's better than my own. Am I obligated by the rules of sportsmanship to keep providing D ticks to the red army? Or am I perhaps justified in going to Brindle instead and trying to have a little fun and make a little AP for myself?

Decent people really should agree that I'm both within my rights to go wherever I want AND there's nothing wrong with a game mode that allows such outlets.

And in Crazy King at least there IS a way for your team to shut the outlet down, as we've discussed at length in the past, involving things like splitting up and actually being near the objectives.

But some people can't be bothered I guess. Or when that idea gets proposed the 20k HP unbuffed noobs suddenly turn into decent players who can't be handled alone. Or they're all tanks and speed builds. An elegant merri-go-round of excuses that rotates as needed for arguments sake.

Whatever feelings of yours I actually agree with-- about runners, permablockers, whatever... It's just sharply juxtaposed with how I feel about trolls, spawn campers, and basically griefers. Anybody capable of going 50-0 in a BG is also capable of winning and putting the other teams out of their misery. But they'd rather "go for the record," instead and dare to wonder why their victims aren't more complicit. The entire viewpoint is a twisted joke told by people with zero empathy and a narrow scope of understanding and enjoyment.

xFocused · April 2023

Yep. Just played a match against a 4 stack on 41k+ health tanks. No damage whatsoever but just holding block on flags. I left. I'll take the penalty, not worth playing against these types of players

Starlight_Knight · April 2023

Anyone running around getting 50 kills is either lying or they're on a new char and their MMR hasnt been adjusted yet

Caribou77 · April 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

@gariondavey you have multiple friends getting 50 kills but you agree that crazy king is full of non-fighting? Weird.

The problem is that half (or whatever,) want to play the game-mode for what it is and the other half want to pretend it's DM. Well no, actually that alone isn't a problem. The problem is complaining about something you inflict on yourself. Like... Of course you're gonna lose if you ONLY go after kills. And you should be okay with that since you choose it over and over and over again.

Meanwhile I'm over here standing on a flag, 10-0, laughing at the guy on the losing team with 50 kills AND laughing at the 0-20 guy who tried to cheese the mode but couldn't because I was there. They are equally ridiculous. And both are rather bad at the game. The game being Crazy King.

^^ This. Absolutely. 100%.

I play to win the game and win the duels.

I go 12-2-16 or so and get the highest points & (often) win the match.

You CAN do both. It’s more challenging, interesting, and fun.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

xDeusEJRx · April 2023

Caribou77 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

@gariondavey you have multiple friends getting 50 kills but you agree that crazy king is full of non-fighting? Weird.

The problem is that half (or whatever,) want to play the game-mode for what it is and the other half want to pretend it's DM. Well no, actually that alone isn't a problem. The problem is complaining about something you inflict on yourself. Like... Of course you're gonna lose if you ONLY go after kills. And you should be okay with that since you choose it over and over and over again.

Meanwhile I'm over here standing on a flag, 10-0, laughing at the guy on the losing team with 50 kills AND laughing at the 0-20 guy who tried to cheese the mode but couldn't because I was there. They are equally ridiculous. And both are rather bad at the game. The game being Crazy King.

^^ This. Absolutely. 100%.

I play to win the game and win the duels.

I go 12-2-16 or so and get the highest points & (often) win the match.

You CAN do both. It’s more challenging, interesting, and fun.

[snip]

Except some people play bgs because it's quick pvp, unlike the other PVP zones which requires you to actively search for a fight to join and hope it doesn't end before you hop in.

I like BG's because it's quick and an easy way to assess my build, and how it feels. In order to get a feel for my build, I need to fight players to see where i'm lacking. People who care too much about the objectives doesn't coincide with that because they have no interest in fighting players, they just play to win the game.

I personally play only for kills because fighting is how I test my damage, sustain, healing, tankiness, etc. not flipping flags which is why I just ignore the objective.

The appeal of BG's is that it's QUICK to jump into PVP and the time to kill is way better than large scale(because there's less players.
No one likes drawn out pvp and for a person who wants to kill, they don't want to beat on tanks or chase runners because it draws out a fight and reduces the appeal of BGs, which is the speediness of how combat is.

Now i'm not saying either way to play is more right than the other, but I can understand why people only go for kills, because active combat is the only way you can test builds quickly outside of dueling people. So if someone wanted to jump in quick and get a good feel in a combat encounter, they want to actually have a back and forth, which is not always true of non-TDM game modes.

[edited to remove quote]

fred4 · April 2023

I did a few, cause it was the weekly endeavor. Yes, there were some tanks and even a pair of players using the guard skill, but to be honest, the score sheets consistently had many players with like 10 kills and 20 assists, me included.

My char should be low MMR. I don't know what the meta is like at higher MMR or with organised groups.

BG scoring still mystifies me, though. We won a few, but I ended up consistently at the bottom of the scoreboard. I must have spent too much time fighting, I guess.

maxjapank · April 2023

They really need to do something about block tanks in pvp, both in battlegrounds and in Cryodiil. It's become absolutely absurd.

gariondavey · April 2023

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Anyone running around getting 50 kills is either lying or they're on a new char and their MMR hasnt been adjusted yet

From this post it really seems like you don't understand how the bg mmr system works. When you are high mmr and there aren't enough players on at your mmr, the game expands to pull in players of wider-ranged mmr.

arch1t3ct · April 2023

I do like like this game mode when i get a nice lobby where i can kill everyone. But yeah, ammount of tanks is absurd recently. I do not understand whats fun about entering pvp and trying to avoid pvp.

Casul · April 2023

My magplar is having a ball. Blocking tank? Javalin. Squishy DPS? Jesus Beam. Nightblade? Soul Assault.

Having fun for the first time in a few months.

tokeinskyblu · May 2023

I really enjoy the battleground events.

I usually find better fights in crazy King, domination and capture the relic because the objectives make people split up more.

I don't enjoy death match when it is 3 stacked groups balled up on each other running tank builds with healers and lining up ulti.

CGPsaint · May 2023

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Every map is full of tanks. all the pve'ers are coming in with builds specifically designed to avoid pvp and just stand on flags. People are winning the map by scoring 0/0/0

This is spot on my experience for the 3 matches that I played. Didn't bother trying again after that. I'm not interested in cheesing the event by doing the same. Just another fine example of how broken "PvP" is in ESO and the absolute laughable lack of any semblance of balance.