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Vampire Rework Suggestions

joebenz
joebenz
Soul Shriven
With the new Mist Form rework, this gave me the idea of a rework of the Vampire skill line. These suggestions are what i think could put the Vampires back in line in terms of viability. Don't know if it's balanced but i focused more on the fun aspect rather than the balance.

Upsides:
- During night time, your movement speed is increased by 20% and the invisibility effect from "Unnatural Will" will still be active for 3 seconds more right after not sprinting anymore.
- Once the presentation quest is done, you will learn of the location of a hidden vampire city in Skyrim in an undiscovered part of the Blackreach cave system known only to vampires. Mortals are denied entry.
The vampire city will act as a sanctuary for all vampires that has all of a regular city's features. You will be able to talk to everyone, vendors and bankers at Stage 4. The city will also include Thralls and "cattles" for you to feed upon. Any ability that has a "Criminal Act" tag on it, vampire or necromancer spells, will not draw attention within the city walls but thievery and attack on other vampire members of the city will swiftly be dealt with death. There is no outlaw refuge as the city itself acts as one with fences freely walking around.

Downsides:
- Gain one stack of "Sun Scorched" for every minute you stand in direct sunlight that stacks up to a total of 5. For each stack, you start to have a smoke effect on you. The more stacks, the more smoke and on each stack, your vision brightens slightly. On 5 stacks, you are partially blinded by the sunlight. You hear a constant high pitched noise and you burn and receive damage equal to 3% of your total health every second and your health regeneration is disabled so long as you stay in the sunlight. For every 10 seconds you burn in sunlight, doubles the damage.
To remove the Sun Scorched effect, you must not be in direct sunlight anymore like in interiors, in the shades, underground, one of the daedric realms, in a home or even standing right under the shadow of a tree can be enough to remove the stacks so long as the sun doesn't directly hit you.

- You don't become "The Vestige" and be a vampire at the same time without getting some attention. That is why, while adventuring out in the open world (that also includes Delves, Public Dungeons and Cyrodiil), you will be hunted and tracked down anywhere in the world by relentless elite vampire hunters who will ambush you when you least expect it, putting up a challenging fight (When in a City, Home, Arena, Group Dungeon, Trial or Coldharbour, the hunting timer will be put into a halt as long as you stay in one of these locations). They don't care if you saved the world or not, to them you are a monster and you should be killed at all costs and they WILL find you. There is no way to escape from them or outrun them as they'll be able to teleport to your location.
Their power will be scaled to yours so fights with them will always be challenging, no matter how well equipped you are. Their arsenal will include: Silver weapons and crossbows, Fire spells, Sun damaging spells doing additional burning damage to you the more Sun Scorched stacks you have on you.
If they kill you, the hunting timer will be reset but you loose all of your Vampiric Stages and become Bloodstarved (see below).
If you kill them, the hunting timer will be reset and others will come after you and will find you after a while, repeating the process indefinetly as long as you are a vampire. So keep an eye out while exploring, for you will be constantly hunted down.
When you are level 15, only one vampire hunter will come after you. Two at level 25, 3 at level 35 and 5 at level 50 and beyond.


Stage 4:
-100% Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery when in direct sunlight.
+20% Extra Fire Damage Received.
+25% Extra Damage Received from Fighter's Guild abilities.
+10% Magicka and Stamina Recovery.
NPCs (except vampire npcs) will refuse to talk to you unless you Mesmerize/Hypnotize them.

Stage 3:
-60% Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery when in direct sunlight.
+13% Extra Fire Damage Received.
+19% Extra Damage Received from Fighter's Guild abilities.
+7% Magicka and Stamina Recovery.

Stage 2:
-30% Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery when in direct sunlight.
+8% Extra Fire Damage Received.
+13% Extra Damage Received from Fighter's Guild abilities.
+5% Magicka and Stamina Recovery.

Stage 1:
-10% Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery when in direct sunlight.
+5% Extra Fire Damage Received.
+7% Extra Damage Received from Fighter's Guild abilities.
Normal Magicka and Stamina Recovery.

Stage 0: "Bloodstarved"

-100% Health Recovery at all times.
+30% Damage Received from all Sources.
-50% Damage and Healing Done.
Cannot transform into Blood Scion.
Can only be healed by yourself.
Vampire npcs will refuse to talk to you.

Once you reach Stage 0, you let out a monstreous scream and become Bloodstarved. You are very weak and your appearance changes drastically, your eyes will glow into a golden-orange hue and you move like a zombie and growl like a bloodfiend. Your currently applied skin and personality will be overwritten.
Guards will attempt to kill you on sight and everyone will be able to notice your monstreous appearance, giving you a bounty. When you receive a bounty while bloodstarved, vampire hunters will be able to track you and find you much more quickly.
You will still stay in this state after being killed and your only option to not be bloodstarved anymore is to feed on someone (Not even Corrupting Bloody Mara can save you).
While being Bloodstarved in the vampire city, no one will attack you but everyone will mock you and reject you and vampire civilians, merchants and bankers will refuse to talk to you out of disgust.

Ultimate:

(First of all for god's sake make the Blood Scion form smaller, this thing is humongous)
Blood Scion (Criminal Act, 1.5s cast, Toggle): Transform into a monstrous creature of the night, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds. While transformed, your max magicka is increased by 30% and you take 10% less damage and increases your total spell damage by 15%. Casting Vampire abilities, Light Attacks or Heavy Attacks depletes Ultimate per ability/attack used until you run out or the Blood Scion form is toggled off. Cannot gain any Ultimate while in this form and cannot use any non vampire offensive abilities as well.
- Morph 1 "Swarming Scion":
Bats also swarm around you within a radius of 3 meters. Every 3 seconds, the bats will deal 870 Magic Damage to enemies that come close and heal you for 15% of the damage. While active, each times the bats deals damage, increases all your bats based damage from Swarming Scion and your other vampire abilities by 10%. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts until Swarming Scion is deactivated.
- Morph 2 "Perfect Scion":
Instead of increasing your maximum Magicka and Spell Damage, Grants 30% more Stamina and increases your Stamina regeneration by 20%. You also ascend to Vampire Stage 5.
Vampire Stage 5 grants all the benefits of Vampire Stage 4 with none of the drawbacks, your Strike from the Shadows passive is always activated, the maximum damage reduction bonus you get from Undeath is also active and Vampire Hunters can be mesmerized.

Skills:

Eviscerate (Instant, Costs Magicka):
Slashes your target with your right hand, then with your left hand on the second cast, each dealing 2323 Magic Damage. On the third cast, slash your target with both hands and inflict 20% more damage.
If you use this ability on a target that is out of range, you very rapidly travel towards it in a swarm of bats and directly reappear on your target. This effect has a cooldown of 3 seconds and has a maximum range of 20 meters.
- Morph 1 "Blood for Blood":
Converts into a stamina ability and deals X physical damage. Every third cast is always a critical and attract vampiric bats on the currently targeted enemy, doing X bleeding damage for 7 seconds and can apply the Hemorrhaging Status Effect. If the enemy dies to this effect, will spread the bats to other enemies nearby, doing X bleeding damage for 7 seconds and fear them for 3 seconds. Vampire hunters are immune to the fear effect. While slotted, casting any Stamina ability while you are in combat will count toward the third cast.
- Morph 2 "Arterial Burst":
Every third cast activates the Strike from the Shadows passive for 6 seconds and send vampiric bats on your target and other enemies nearby, causing X magic damage to them for 5 seconds.

(Blood Frenzy is replaced by Summon Deathhound)
Summon Deathhound (Criminal Act, Instant, Costs Magicka):
Summons a Deathhound for 20 seconds to aid you in combat, dealing X physical damage per attack. It's total damage done scales with your highest stat. Every 10 seconds it will lunge at an enemy within 20 meters if it is out of melee range from it.
- Morph 1 "Summon Ferocious Deathhound":
Your Deathhound's attacks will do an additional X frost damage. Each time it lunges, will knock back the affected enemy and snare it for 2 seconds.
- Morph 2 "Summon Faithful Deathhound":
Your Deathhound is now permanent and its presence will not attract the authorities anymore and you can also name it. Once summoned, you can activate the Deathhound's special ability for 12 seconds, granting your Deathhound a damage bonus of 30% against enemies with less than 50% of health.

Vampiric Drain (Instant, Costs Magicka):
For 20 seconds, replaces your heavy attacks with Vampiric Drain (has the same visuals as the regular vampiric drain but acts like the lightning staff's heavy attack). While active, your heavy attacks reduces the Magicka or Stamina you receive from it by 40% but heals you and your Deathhound for 20% of the damage done.
- Morph 1 "Drain Vigor":
Converts into a Stamina ability and for 20 seconds, instead of replacing your heavy attacks, empowers your offensive single target martial weapon abilities you use while in combat by healing you and your Deathhound for 12% of the damage done. Every third single target martial ability you use while active will not cost anything, deal 20% more damage and cause a blood explosion on the target, dealing the same amount of damage to other enemies in a 5 meters radius around it. While Drain Vigor is active, you can cast martial abilities while in Blood Scion form.
- Morph 2 "Exhilarating Drain":
Damages nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. Healing will only count for the damage done on the main target. Deals 3500 additional magic damage to targets at or below 35% Heath and grants you Empower for 5 seconds. Empower increases your damage against monsters with Heavy Attacks by 80%.

Mesmerize (Instant, Costs Magicka):
Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked. Vampire Hunters are immune to this spell.
- Morph 1 "Hypnosis":
Subdue enemies around you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked.
If used on a civilian humanoid, you will be able to talk to it and force it to follow you for 1 minute but not too far. Subdued civilians can be fed on and will not be killed by it but can alert authorities if nearby, giving you a bounty. Once fed on, you will lose your control over them and they will go back to where they were, not remembering what happened and will be immune to this spell for 24 hours. Can only have one subdued humanoid at a time.
- Morph 2 "Stupefy":
Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked. After the stun ends they remain stupefied, reducing their Movement Speed by 53% for 5 seconds.
If one of the affected enemy is a non player humanoid, will be forced to fight for you for 25 seconds. Once the effect is dissipated, it will enter into a rage, raising its damage by 30% and will be unable to be subdued anymore. This effect has a cooldown of 40 seconds and Players are not affected by this.

Mist Form: no changes

Passives:

Dark Stalker: Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak. Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
For each vampire ability slotted, increases the damage of your vampire abilities by 4%.

Strike from the Shadows (While you are at Vampire Stage 2 or higher): When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form your Weapon and Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
If you have at least 2 vampire abilities slotted, your dodge roll is replaced by a magic dodge that briefly transforms you into mist and removes one snare you have on you. The mist dodge will not attract the attenton of authorities.

Blood Ritual: no changes

Undeath (While you are at Vampire Stage 3 or higher): Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.
If you have at least 3 vampire abilities slotted, each enemy killed by your vampire abilities or your Deathhound's attacks will attract bloodthirsty bats that will swarm their corpses and devour them for 5 seconds, causing X magic damage on enemies standing near them. This effect does not stack with other corpses on top of eachother.

(Unnatural Movement is replaced by Unnatural Will)
Unnatural Will (While you are at Vampire Stage 4): Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%. When not in combat, if you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
If you have at least 5 vampire abilities slotted and if you are sneaking and staying still, you become completely invisible and you can see living enemies through walls. Effect is deactivated when you move or leave sneak. Max 20 meters range. Enemy detection effect doesn't work on Undead, Automatons and Players.
  • dsalter
    dsalter
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    a passive for avoiding sunlight will never pass, because majority of the game DAY is... well debuff time, not including how hard it would strain servers needing to track time as well as debuffs for thousands of players.

    if theres any rework i support is vampire ultimate.

    i want to rework it so that 1 form transforms you into vampire lord (with both stage 5 and bats) and the other just gives you a passive that reduces all the downsides of each stage by 1 and when activated (similarly to how warden bear works, an activate + passive) functions like overload where you use up 7/6/5/4 ulti per second while activate to gain most of the same buffs that Oaken Soul grants but also gives you a minor+major healing intake debuff while active and disables when you bar swap (unless it is also on the other bar).
    the reason for the new semi passive ulti is 2 fold, 1 it would give you an option for not using the ugly af transformation while also giving you a power spike when used, but the second point is that it would give base game users an option of Oaken Soul that has both a downside and an alternative upside, on the upside you can bar swap, the downsides would be essentially a -20% healing intake (which as a vampire can be pretty huge) and the bar swapping would cost you 2 ultimate slots
    PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread

    EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
    Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.

  • joebenz
    joebenz
    Soul Shriven
    Strange because the majority of the game time when i'm on is night time :P But that's why the real damage debuff activates only after 5 minutes of being in sunlight and can easely be removed when under a roof for a sec or in the shadow of a large rock. The inspiration for it was from V Rising but in it, it is much more unforgiving straight up burning you after 3 seconds while here you have a few minutes.

    THAT would be part of the cost of being a vampire. I never understood why it was all about health cost and no health regen. It's not very vampiry if that's a saying.

    While the sunlight debuff, the vampire hunters chasing you and the vampire stages being remade into a survival mechanic makes much more sense to have as a cost.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    The daylight feature simply won't work. What is "direct sunlight"? In a building you aren't in direct sunlight? What if the interior cell of the building has a balcony? You realize how much development effort and performance decrease it would be to add something like that? Sure, it's technically possible, but the effort you'd have to go through to add it is just in no relation to the somewhat little benefit we'd gain from it.

    This is also the very reason why ESO's vampirism is not the same kind of vampirism strain in lore as any of the previously known vampirism strains. You can add this stuff to single-player games mainly because there you can control the time of day. You can't control the time of day in an MMO.

    I like the principle of the stage 0 forcing you to feed at least a bit, since that is my biggest gripe with how vampirism works now and how it used to work. People were/are incentivised to not feed, which is stupid, even if I prefer the traditional explanation of "keep feeding to stay human, stop feeding to gain power at the cost of your humanity", as it also add this whole moral dilemma for all vampires.

    Evicerate becoming a gap-closer is something I've personally suggested as well and it just makes sense in my opinion. There is something relentless about having your spammable be a gap-closer and I think that fits the theme of the vampire very much. I approve. Too bad it goes against ZOS' spreadsheet standards where gap-closers are not allowed to deal damage. I think this should be the exception and the downsides of vampirism should account for this and balance out this "rulebreaker" ability so it stays fair. Or perhaps add a ramping cost when used to close a gap, idk.
    The morph ideas I don't vibe as much with, although I do like the option for vampires to go physical.

    I like Deathhounds but not that much. An item set that summons deathhounds for you sounds like a better fit if you ask me. Pets are such a pain to deal with in PvP. I think Blood Frenzy can use a rework because I think its design is not healthy for the game. My personal opinion on it is that it should work like a passive buffing ability, like Camouflaged Hunter, that can reveal enemies from stealth. Vampires are better at detecting living creatures after all.

    Love the idea for Vampiric Drain! It's such an iconic ability but right now it's barely used in the game. Its greatest use right now is to generate ultimate between fights in PvP so that you can always go into a fight against players with your ultimate ready. That's too niche for being the vampire ability.
    Again, the stamina morph isn't really my cup of tea but I like the principle of giving a boost to martial vampires through buffing their weapon abilities. Adding Empower to the other morph is also a great idea in my opinion, because this is by far the most sensical concept for a Heavy Attack build that I have seen. Concept-wise this works on so many levels and it's probably a lot more user-friendly than the current version of Drain.

    Mesmerize needs more work. The ability right now is a bit clunky. The roleplay aspect of it is great the way it is now, but your suggestions don't help it become any more usable. I've always advocated that vampire abilities should have more built-in passives the way many other skills do so that vampires can stand on their own regardless of what the respective class brings to the table. This can even include negatives so that you can fine-tune whether you want to be a vampire tank or vampire DD, which is something a lot of players want but ZOS has so far failed to deliver on. Mesmerize (and Blood Frenzy) are the perfect candidates for this.

    I haven't played around with the new Mist Form yet as I quit the game in U35 and am now coming back to see how the new servers are. I can't comment on that, but it too could potentially use a built-in passive.

    I like that you add bonuses depending on how many vampire abilities you have slotted, as that is a mechanic that vampires desperately needed, considering one of their penalties is to increase the cost of non-vampire abilities without giving you incentives to actually use the below-average vampire abilities we got right now.

    Your idea for Unnatural Movement is okay but kind of gimmicky. Also why "not in combat"? This should definitely work in combat. That's the whole point. Personally, I would prefer if the passive was always available and not just at stage 4, but instead changed the time it takes to turn invisible based on your stage. 12 seconds of sprinting for a stage 1 vampire sounds completely fine if you ask me and it mainly serves to more easily escape guards rather than being of actual value in PvP. However a stage 3 vampire might actually be able to take advantage of it, albeit not as well as a stage 4.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • joebenz
    joebenz
    Soul Shriven
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    The daylight feature simply won't work. What is "direct sunlight"? In a building you aren't in direct sunlight? What if the interior cell of the building has a balcony? You realize how much development effort and performance decrease it would be to add something like that? Sure, it's technically possible, but the effort you'd have to go through to add it is just in no relation to the somewhat little benefit we'd gain from it.

    This is also the very reason why ESO's vampirism is not the same kind of vampirism strain in lore as any of the previously known vampirism strains. You can add this stuff to single-player games mainly because there you can control the time of day. You can't control the time of day in an MMO.

    I like the principle of the stage 0 forcing you to feed at least a bit, since that is my biggest gripe with how vampirism works now and how it used to work. People were/are incentivised to not feed, which is stupid, even if I prefer the traditional explanation of "keep feeding to stay human, stop feeding to gain power at the cost of your humanity", as it also add this whole moral dilemma for all vampires.

    Evicerate becoming a gap-closer is something I've personally suggested as well and it just makes sense in my opinion. There is something relentless about having your spammable be a gap-closer and I think that fits the theme of the vampire very much. I approve. Too bad it goes against ZOS' spreadsheet standards where gap-closers are not allowed to deal damage. I think this should be the exception and the downsides of vampirism should account for this and balance out this "rulebreaker" ability so it stays fair. Or perhaps add a ramping cost when used to close a gap, idk.
    The morph ideas I don't vibe as much with, although I do like the option for vampires to go physical.

    I like Deathhounds but not that much. An item set that summons deathhounds for you sounds like a better fit if you ask me. Pets are such a pain to deal with in PvP. I think Blood Frenzy can use a rework because I think its design is not healthy for the game. My personal opinion on it is that it should work like a passive buffing ability, like Camouflaged Hunter, that can reveal enemies from stealth. Vampires are better at detecting living creatures after all.

    Love the idea for Vampiric Drain! It's such an iconic ability but right now it's barely used in the game. Its greatest use right now is to generate ultimate between fights in PvP so that you can always go into a fight against players with your ultimate ready. That's too niche for being the vampire ability.
    Again, the stamina morph isn't really my cup of tea but I like the principle of giving a boost to martial vampires through buffing their weapon abilities. Adding Empower to the other morph is also a great idea in my opinion, because this is by far the most sensical concept for a Heavy Attack build that I have seen. Concept-wise this works on so many levels and it's probably a lot more user-friendly than the current version of Drain.

    Mesmerize needs more work. The ability right now is a bit clunky. The roleplay aspect of it is great the way it is now, but your suggestions don't help it become any more usable. I've always advocated that vampire abilities should have more built-in passives the way many other skills do so that vampires can stand on their own regardless of what the respective class brings to the table. This can even include negatives so that you can fine-tune whether you want to be a vampire tank or vampire DD, which is something a lot of players want but ZOS has so far failed to deliver on. Mesmerize (and Blood Frenzy) are the perfect candidates for this.

    I haven't played around with the new Mist Form yet as I quit the game in U35 and am now coming back to see how the new servers are. I can't comment on that, but it too could potentially use a built-in passive.

    I like that you add bonuses depending on how many vampire abilities you have slotted, as that is a mechanic that vampires desperately needed, considering one of their penalties is to increase the cost of non-vampire abilities without giving you incentives to actually use the below-average vampire abilities we got right now.

    Your idea for Unnatural Movement is okay but kind of gimmicky. Also why "not in combat"? This should definitely work in combat. That's the whole point. Personally, I would prefer if the passive was always available and not just at stage 4, but instead changed the time it takes to turn invisible based on your stage. 12 seconds of sprinting for a stage 1 vampire sounds completely fine if you ask me and it mainly serves to more easily escape guards rather than being of actual value in PvP. However a stage 3 vampire might actually be able to take advantage of it, albeit not as well as a stage 4.

    The sunlight debuff could be simple as when the sunlight hits you, boom debuff. You're in the shadows, debuff removed. But i'm no developper at all so for that i really don't know how it could work.
    But if this would really add too much strain to the server then an alternative would be that the vampire hunters would add more debuffs on you when you're in the sunlight or something of the sort.

    But all in all, i agree with everything else you said.
  • Browiseth
    Browiseth
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    like the others are saying, your idea for a sunlight damage mechanic would be way more at home in a single player TES

    you gotta keep in mind that in the single player games, the player effectively has complete control over the time of day due to the wait/rest function, which makes a vampire player planning around when they leave their shelter much more feasible

    not so in eso, where the day/night cycle is out of the player's control (i think the entire day/night cycle takes about 6 hours of real time) and it's certainly not realistic to expect a player to stay in a cave or indoors for long stretches of time while they wait for night

    i like the idea for a vampire themed town area. i would take it a step further and have a joinable vampire/werewolf faction with an associated skill tree

    i like your suggestion for eviscerate. currently the skill is just kinda...a mediocre spammable

    i like the deathound summon idea, certainly better than the mess of a skill we have in blood frenzy
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
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    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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  • Haven
    Haven
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    Quite a few of those ideas are very nice. I hope some of them get implemented. The current state of vampires theme wise is pitiful.
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