Tri-Focus and Empower in Imperial City

Ren_TheRedFox · April 2023

Hello folks,

I wanted to "warn" those of you who don't know the trick with the lightning staff and tri-focus in PvP zones like the Imperial City. Currently, many people are "abusing" the power of the Empower buff and tri-focus in PvP zones. They just heavy attack an NPC and proc Tri-Focus and hit other players with 30k damage and kill them instantly. I think it's unfair to everyone who spends their time killing these bosses, which takes 5 minutes if you solo them, and then suddenly another person from another faction shows up and kills you and all your efforts were for nothing.
@ZOS_Kevin can you please do something about this problem because it really drives away a lot of players from the Imperial City.

KiltMaster · April 2023

Don't think it's worth nerfing. What about other builds that can one-shot players like bomber builds and ganker builds?

You can counter HA builds - they're not unstoppable.

Also 'then suddenly another person from another faction shows up and kills you and all your efforts were for nothing' ... that's just how IC and PVP works. Risk versus reward.

MachineGod · April 2023

KiltMaster wrote: »

Don't think it's worth nerfing. What about other builds that can one-shot players like bomber builds and ganker builds?

Because those builds aren't using a well known and documented bug?

(The bug being Tri-focus bypasses battle spirit)

KiltMaster · April 2023

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

Ren_TheRedFox · April 2023

@KiltMaster I don't know if you've every tried roll dodging Tri-Focus attacks cause I did and I can tell you it doesn't work. And about the gank/bomber builds ... those builds require skills ... people risk their lifes to get a nice bomb/gank while heavy attack tri-focus builds do not .... and another thing with IC is that we need some sort of "Faction Lock" like in Gray Host for at least one day cause you always have people who get salty because they have to "share" the bosses with other people from their faction and then they switch to the other faction to gank them and "steal" their Tel Var which doesn't sound good at all.

KiltMaster · April 2023

Can always just build tankier w more resist then you're not going to take all that damage.

Also I'm not going to debate certain builds needing 'skill' and having 'risk' because that is a slippery slope that I'm not interested in arguing about.

I think having a faction-locked IC is a totally different discussion that I'm not necessarily opposed to.

That said - yeah ganking people and stealing tel var tho is part of how IC works. Again - risk vs reward.

kringled_1 · April 2023

It's definitely a bug. Someone heavy attacking an npc near an enemy player (with empower) will get a much larger damage tick for tri focus on the player than if they were attacking a second enemy player in the same location. Empower shouldn't apply to damage to another player but it does. Battle spirit should apply, but it doesn't.

haelgaan · April 2023

KiltMaster wrote: »

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

not a bug, just like any other bow gank, HA gank, bombing, burst dps etc. folks are just upset because of increased visibility of the HA builds

KiltMaster · April 2023

haelgaan wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

not a bug, just like any other bow gank, HA gank, bombing, burst dps etc. folks are just upset because of increased visibility of the HA builds

That is exactly what I was thinking

CameraBeardThePirate · April 2023

KiltMaster wrote: »

haelgaan wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

not a bug, just like any other bow gank, HA gank, bombing, burst dps etc. folks are just upset because of increased visibility of the HA builds

That is exactly what I was thinking

That's not true at all, it is a bug that Tri Focus bypasses Battle Spirit.

It's also an uncounterable build. There is literally no way to counter undodgeable, unblockable 30k ticks of damage that come from stealth. You're dead in an instant.

KiltMaster · April 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

haelgaan wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

not a bug, just like any other bow gank, HA gank, bombing, burst dps etc. folks are just upset because of increased visibility of the HA builds

That is exactly what I was thinking

That's not true at all, it is a bug that Tri Focus bypasses Battle Spirit.

It's also an uncounterable build. There is literally no way to counter undodgeable, unblockable 30k ticks of damage that come from stealth. You're dead in an instant.

That's how I feel about gank builds, too, sometimes

CameraBeardThePirate · April 2023

KiltMaster wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

haelgaan wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

not a bug, just like any other bow gank, HA gank, bombing, burst dps etc. folks are just upset because of increased visibility of the HA builds

That is exactly what I was thinking

That's not true at all, it is a bug that Tri Focus bypasses Battle Spirit.

It's also an uncounterable build. There is literally no way to counter undodgeable, unblockable 30k ticks of damage that come from stealth. You're dead in an instant.

That's how I feel about gank builds, too, sometimes

The thing is, when there are other gank builds that pop up that are this powerful, they get nerfed fairly quickly. This should be one of those instances. Although it's extremely niche, it kinda breaks farming IC bosses at the moment.

KiltMaster · April 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

haelgaan wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Is it a confirmed bug or are people just now upset about it because of the prevalance of HA builds?

not a bug, just like any other bow gank, HA gank, bombing, burst dps etc. folks are just upset because of increased visibility of the HA builds

That is exactly what I was thinking

That's not true at all, it is a bug that Tri Focus bypasses Battle Spirit.

It's also an uncounterable build. There is literally no way to counter undodgeable, unblockable 30k ticks of damage that come from stealth. You're dead in an instant.

That's how I feel about gank builds, too, sometimes

The thing is, when there are other gank builds that pop up that are this powerful, they get nerfed fairly quickly. This should be one of those instances. Although it's extremely niche, it kinda breaks farming IC bosses at the moment.

Well, it hasn't been that long since this was a thing in PVP. Maybe they're planning to mess with it when they release all the necrom stuff.

Dr_Con · April 2023

simple solution is to get rid of empower with battle spirit active. there's no reason it should exist in pvp zones.

Cast_El · April 2023

I reported this exploit month ago, developpers did not want Heavy attack with empower buff hitting players. That's why they add "against monster" in description. They just did saw this side effect. It's bad they didn't fix this yet

React · April 2023

@KiltMaster

Yeah man, there is totally nothing broken here at all and this is just an intended mechanic that people are mad about because of their bias against heavy attack builds.

You should definitely be able to hit players for 50k DPS by heavy attacking NPCs near them.

https://youtu.be/I6CrV6umo_8

virtus753 · April 2023

Cast_El wrote: »

I reported this exploit month ago, developpers did not want Heavy attack with empower buff hitting players. That's why they add "against monster" in description. They just did saw this side effect. It's bad they didn't fix this yet

They also just made that same change to Storm Master on PTS.

Trejgon · April 2023

Empower is definitelly not supposed to affect damage against players. This should include splash from tri-focus.
I could totally see the coding of both being done in sloppy way causing this sort of unintended interaction.

virtus753 · April 2023

Trejgon wrote: »

Empower is definitelly not supposed to affect damage against players. This should include splash from tri-focus.
I could totally see the coding of both being done in sloppy way causing this sort of unintended interaction.

I’m not sure I’d say it’s sloppy coding. When Empower and Trifocus were originally coded, this was not an issue, since Empower was much lower in magnitude. Empower and Trifocus are even now individually working exactly as intended. The problem is that their interaction after the Empower changes produces unintended results. This sounds like an oversight where they did not think through and take care to fully mitigate the consequences of the changes to Empower. That’s primarily a design issue, not an error in coding.

KiltMaster · April 2023

@React Yeah I've seen that clip. I also see all the bombing clips too. They look the same.

I've also personally gotten one shotted for a whole 45k + by a ganker.

I'm not gonna be mad if ZOS fixes this, but it's funny to see people complaining about it now just bc the builds became more popularized.

EDIT: Also you know how ZOS is nerfing plaguebreak into the ground by not allowing it to affect NPCs? I can only imagine it'll be a matter of time before they do that to HA too so, it is what it is. We should all be used to it at this point.

Cast_El · April 2023

React wrote: »

@KiltMaster

Yeah man, there is totally nothing broken here at all and this is just an intended mechanic that people are mad about because of their bias against heavy attack builds.

You should definitely be able to hit players for 50k DPS by heavy attacking NPCs near them.

https://youtu.be/I6CrV6umo_8

No. As I said the devs added "against monster" that's means they didn't want empower working against players.

KiltMaster · April 2023

Yeah, React was being sarcastic towards me. They're on your side here, @Cast_El

Cast_El · April 2023

KiltMaster wrote: »

Yeah, React was being sarcastic towards me. They're on your side here, @Cast_El

You are right, i guess I ma just tired of this.
I did died by Tri focus 44k today in IC, while I was melee fighting a boss.
I can assure you I tracked the player down and killed him/her every time I saw him/her after. I hope he/she won't use this "exploit" again.

KiltMaster · April 2023

lmfao hey it's pvp do what you do I guess

kringled_1 · April 2023

Cast_El wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

Yeah, React was being sarcastic towards me. They're on your side here, @Cast_El

You are right, i guess I ma just tired of this.
I did died by Tri focus 44k today in IC, while I was melee fighting a boss.
I can assure you I tracked the player down and killed him/her every time I saw him/her after. I hope he/she won't use this "exploit" again.

They probably will, until it's fixed. Because it's easy and effective.

Ren_TheRedFox · April 2023

@KiltMaster it's not the same as a gankblade build .... gank blades build up their pen fair and square while tri-focus ignores your resistances ... basically even a tank with 5k damage output could kill you with a heavy attack lightning staff empower tri-focus combo .... doesn't seem to be right right??

KiltMaster · April 2023

@Ren_TheRedFox We're not going to agree on this so IDK why I'm still responding, but I do think it's similar. You can talk about 'it's not fair' and 'it's not skilled' all you want but at the end of the day it has the same effect.

I get not even a second to react to someone ganking me and I'm dead. Other people have experienced not having a second to react to someone tossing a heavy at an NPC and they're dead.

Different build, same effect.

And also, like I said, they're nerfing PB for this exact same reason y'all are complaining about for HA so I imagine they will nerf this soon as well. It is what it is.

xDeusEJRx · April 2023

They definitely should fix this interaction.

They're nerfing PB for "not being intelligent enough to counterplay" and nuking players as a result and this interaction is pretty much the same. Using mobs in open world to nuke another player and the mobs also have no concept of counterplay.

They need to fix this empower trifocus workaround cause it's clearly the same type of interaction they don't want plaguebreak to be doing and players are nuking players with this similar interaction.

ZOS_Hadeostry · April 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

BetweenMidgets · April 2023

Yeah, I'm with Kiltmaster. The same skill is required for a heavy attack build as a bomber or ganker. 100%

KiltMaster · April 2023

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Yeah, I'm with Kiltmaster. The same skill is required for a heavy attack build as a bomber or ganker. 100%

I didn't say anything about skill :P I said the effect is the same