Nightblade invis nerf stealth rework concept...

Sparxlost · April 2023

when crouching and hidden
roll dodge and certain abilities no longer reveal your position...
when hidden cannot be targeted by most or all gap closers/ranged abilities unless inside another players detection radius.. (ranged light heavy attacks will still reveal hidden players outside your detect radius)

when casting invis.
gain the hidden effect for 30 seconds.. (broken for brief periods after launching an attack then reapplies until the buff wears off...does not require you to crouch)
Become invisible for 30 seconds ( this effect can only apply once every 30 seconds)

nightblades will continue to be the undisputed champions of stealth as other classes need to crouch to achieve the hidden status..

fred4 · April 2023

You're trolling, right?

For reference: Invis potions in their current state are pretty useless. They can work on a sorc that has created a lot of distance with Streak. They don't really work in general, because many things can knock you out of cloak, not least accidentally sprinting (assuming not vamp stage 4). You're then stuck with a 45 second cooldown.

Now if your proposed Cloak is not like a potion, but iit automatically reapplies, I suppose it depends on the timeout and how reliable it is, but that sounds broken OP to me. That's not necessarily a nerf at all (assuming from your title you're looking to nerf Cloak).

In regards to crouching, the first thing to note is that crouching is NOT invisibility. You can see crouched players, once you get close enough. Moreover guard NPCs always see you from quite a distance and aggressively go after you. This does not happen if you're cloaked.

My main question is: "why?". Your ideas sound like solutions looking for a problem. You would only create new balancing headaches in place of the old ones.

Shepoffire · April 2023

Cloak is all we have. I mean there's maras. Any good ganker left has been doing it for a while. I still manage to hit massive snipes. Like if I get caught it's a rip. I'm good at nit getting caught is all. You just gotta know how lol. And I do know what it's like in the other side of things. Camo hunter and mage light are great tools lol. I *** other nightblades over all the time. It's not that hard of a counter

Sparxlost · April 2023

Shepoffire wrote: »

Cloak is all we have. I mean there's maras. Any good ganker left has been doing it for a while. I still manage to hit massive snipes. Like if I get caught it's a rip. I'm good at nit getting caught is all. You just gotta know how lol. And I do know what it's like in the other side of things. Camo hunter and mage light are great tools lol. I *** other nightblades over all the time. It's not that hard of a counter

Not everyone wants to play a cloak oriented playstyle..
if they nerfed invis then they would have incentive to bring the rest of nightblades kit up to the same standard as other classes..

then invis would be used to secure a quick glass cannon kill, sneak up on a group or person, or to make a clever escape.. You wouldnt just, be horseflying around someone trying to get a lucky crit, which is what im sure most nightblades have been doing for a long time....

Sparxlost · April 2023

"cloak is all we have"
THAT is the problem that keeps nightblade from being fun to play as or against.... that the rest of nightblade suffers so that this one skill can continue to be what it is..

and it isnt like being squish assassin would die completely there are still invis pots incase you miss your initial attack on someone..

once invis becomes less of a threat people will run counters less often which may result in more kills overall..

AndreNoir · April 2023

Ty, no

Sparxlost · April 2023

fred4 wrote: »

You're trolling, right?

For reference: Invis potions in their current state are pretty useless. They can work on a sorc that has created a lot of distance with Streak. They don't really work in general, because many things can knock you out of cloak, not least accidentally sprinting (assuming not vamp stage 4). You're then stuck with a 45 second cooldown.

Now if your proposed Cloak is not like a potion, but iit automatically reapplies, I suppose it depends on the timeout and how reliable it is, but that sounds broken OP to me. That's not necessarily a nerf at all (assuming from your title you're looking to nerf Cloak).

In regards to crouching, the first thing to note is that crouching is NOT invisibility. You can see crouched players, once you get close enough. Moreover guard NPCs always see you from quite a distance and aggressively go after you. This does not happen if you're cloaked.

My main question is: "why?". Your ideas sound like solutions looking for a problem. You would only create new balancing headaches in place of the old ones.

it is hard to picture what you are trying to say but ill do my best to address your issues...
the invisibility from the skill has a 30 second cooldown, but you could still gain a second invis from a potion to offset the long cooldown...

the invis doenst reapply, but instead you get a hidden status for the duration without having to crouch meaning you would be more difficult to target when outside of someones detection radius and so saving you from gap closers and some other effects that require targeting.. meaning that if you are careful to avoid being damaged and time your attacks then you have a great defensive as far as 1v1s are considered and the invisibility would be used as a party starter or hard disengage.. sure there are a ton of things that can pull someone out of steath but if you are a smart player you will get away more in the situations that you could have..

i think that you are overeacting... nightblade as it is now is a headache for literally everyone and not in a good way as their playstyle typically centers around their ability to spam invisibility and backstab opponents.. it can be fun but not when its been practically the only way to play for the better part of a decade... there is no emphasis on skillful evasion exploitation that you would expect from any assassin and instead just spam cloak and hope someone doesnt counter it because this class wasnt meant to do any real fighting.. and because invis is the way it is right now the odds of it ever being what it could be because of it are slim to none...

so .. what? to add a nerf you would need to make proper changes to the rest of nightblades kit.. im totally okay with that as long as i dont have to spam or even necessarily run cloak to play....

Sparxlost · April 2023

though useful for offense, i do believe that invisibility and the art of hiding yourself was conceived as an idea mainly for defense.. hence why i seek to limit its offensive usefulness..

fred4 · April 2023

@Sparxlost, invisibility that doesn't reapply is completely useless. Having the hidden status without having to crouch is meaningless. It already exists. Being a vampire negates the speed penalty, and movement is so cheap and potentially fast (with Swift and/or RAT), you don't have stamina issues.

You're just another player who doesn't like nightblades. I do not accept your premise that everyone agrees with that and that NB needs to be changed. Nightblade is not currently top dog in PvP. Arguably DK is. If not, then the top spot is shared by NBs, DKs and wardens.

I don't believe it's in the best interest of an adversarial game, e.g. PvP, to get rid of playstyles that some players don't like. It's in the game's nature that some players hate nightblades for having to fight on the nightblade's terms (until they master detection), or for being dishonorable, cowards, a PITA, and so on. That is a valid reaction. It indicates the role-playing aspect of the game is working, not that the class needs to be altered (as long as it balanced and has counters, which it does). It's an open world RPG. It is unfair, nasty and unsportsmanlike in many ways. This is by design. Players can choose how they want to play. There is a culture of sportsmanship and mutual respect among some players. However the game doesn't enforce that. It allows you to explore other options. I think that's great.

Invisibility is currently substantially different from crouch, since it completely removes aggro from NPCs. This goes for flag guards, Imperial City NPCs, as it does for monsters in PvE. It's especially useful in crowded public dungeons for example. Like so many others you have no qualms letting those applications of Cloak be collateral damage. No thanks.

DrNukenstein · April 2023

I'm in a pvp guild on PC NA and not one of the members has a problem fighting against cloak blades. In fact, learning how to fight a cloak blade is one of the first rungs on the ladder to gitting gud.

This is just another call to remove a play style because you don't like it or have any interest in learning how to play around it.

Instead of going to the forums to ask ZOS to delete a play style, try using your detect skill proactively. Once you get a feel for doing that when a cloak blade commits to a melee fight it becomes extremely easy to get them every time.

Sparxlost · April 2023

fred4 wrote: »

@Sparxlost, invisibility that doesn't reapply is completely useless. Having the hidden status without having to crouch is meaningless. It already exists. Being a vampire negates the speed penalty, and movement is so cheap and potentially fast (with Swift and/or RAT), you don't have stamina issues.

You're just another player who doesn't like nightblades. I do not accept your premise that everyone agrees with that and that NB needs to be changed. Nightblade is not currently top dog in PvP. Arguably DK is. If not, then the top spot is shared by NBs, DKs and wardens.

I don't believe it's in the best interest of an adversarial game, e.g. PvP, to get rid of playstyles that some players don't like. It's in the game's nature that some players hate nightblades for having to fight on the nightblade's terms (until they master detection), or for being dishonorable, cowards, a PITA, and so on. That is a valid reaction. It indicates the role-playing aspect of the game is working, not that the class needs to be altered (as long as it balanced and has counters, which it does). It's an open world RPG. It is unfair, nasty and unsportsmanlike in many ways. This is by design. Players can choose how they want to play. There is a culture of sportsmanship and mutual respect among some players. However the game doesn't enforce that. It allows you to explore other options. I think that's great.

Invisibility is currently substantially different from crouch, since it completely removes aggro from NPCs. This goes for flag guards, Imperial City NPCs, as it does for monsters in PvE. It's especially useful in crowded public dungeons for example. Like so many others you have no qualms letting those applications of Cloak be collateral damage. No thanks.

Think of it this way, instead of cloak being so powerful as an at-will tool and having the rest of the class being built around that, it would be a tool with a use allowing occasional and effective attacks without limiting the rest of nightblades kit inadvertently.. Its not that i dont like invis backstab playstyles but i do think in addition nightblade should be capable of more and not encouraged to JUST invis backstab.... This change makes backstabs less common in battle but with buffs to the rest of nightblades kit as assassins they will get kills more often when they can invis further adding chaos in realistic amounts to battles.. and in pve they can better avoid detection without having to spam a button every three seconds.. its not "getting rid of a playstyle" it is adding to it..

fred4 · April 2023

Sparxlost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

@Sparxlost, invisibility that doesn't reapply is completely useless. Having the hidden status without having to crouch is meaningless. It already exists. Being a vampire negates the speed penalty, and movement is so cheap and potentially fast (with Swift and/or RAT), you don't have stamina issues.

You're just another player who doesn't like nightblades. I do not accept your premise that everyone agrees with that and that NB needs to be changed. Nightblade is not currently top dog in PvP. Arguably DK is. If not, then the top spot is shared by NBs, DKs and wardens.

I don't believe it's in the best interest of an adversarial game, e.g. PvP, to get rid of playstyles that some players don't like. It's in the game's nature that some players hate nightblades for having to fight on the nightblade's terms (until they master detection), or for being dishonorable, cowards, a PITA, and so on. That is a valid reaction. It indicates the role-playing aspect of the game is working, not that the class needs to be altered (as long as it balanced and has counters, which it does). It's an open world RPG. It is unfair, nasty and unsportsmanlike in many ways. This is by design. Players can choose how they want to play. There is a culture of sportsmanship and mutual respect among some players. However the game doesn't enforce that. It allows you to explore other options. I think that's great.

Invisibility is currently substantially different from crouch, since it completely removes aggro from NPCs. This goes for flag guards, Imperial City NPCs, as it does for monsters in PvE. It's especially useful in crowded public dungeons for example. Like so many others you have no qualms letting those applications of Cloak be collateral damage. No thanks.

Think of it this way, instead of cloak being so powerful as an at-will tool and having the rest of the class being built around that, it would be a tool with a use allowing occasional and effective attacks without limiting the rest of nightblades kit inadvertently.. Its not that i dont like invis backstab playstyles but i do think in addition nightblade should be capable of more and not encouraged to JUST invis backstab.... This change makes backstabs less common in battle but with buffs to the rest of nightblades kit as assassins they will get kills more often when they can invis further adding chaos in realistic amounts to battles.. and in pve they can better avoid detection without having to spam a button every three seconds.. its not "getting rid of a playstyle" it is adding to it..

You don't seem to understand invisibility. Invisibility is not equal to crouch. Not in PvP. Not in PvE. If you remove invisibility, which is what you're doing, you seriously break / change Cloak in PvE for starters. You cannot avoid detection in PvE without actual Cloak. What you're saying how it should work boils down to wearing Darloc Brae in the current game. Try to run into a delve in crouch wearing that set (as a vampire) and see how far you get among densely packed mobs without Cloak. They will detect you. With invisibility they don't. Furthermore, if you fail to Cloak and are detected, you can by and large shake aggro by recloaking. With your proposed scheme that option goes away. There is a big difference between being a traditional stamblade that mixes and matches Cloak with crouch, and a magblade with better Cloak sustain.

As to ganking, have you tried that lately? The game is currently so tanky, it doesn't even work well. There are a whole host of different types of nightblades out there. What is limited about the nightblade's kit? You want to play a regular character, without Cloak, you can do that. You get a bunch of unique damage buffs that make you competitive. The idea that nightblade is held back and limited by Cloak balancing is only in your head. It is a flexible class.

On the most basic side, a nightblade with high cloak sustain allows new players to gain confidence, as they have the freedom to observe or disengage without losing their Tel Var or incurring long rides. That is how I gained confidence in PvP a long time ago. It's been the same for a new player I recently met, who was going to give up on PvP altogether. Nightblade cuts both ways. It kills inexperienced players, but it also aids them.

Cloak seems strong to newer players. However once you deal with experienced ones, then your opening statement "Cloak being so powerful" is wrong. Cloak is polarizing, because of ganking and because, when it works, it is the best disengage tool bar none. This is annoying to other players, but it is not OP. The key phrase is "when it works". Many players haven't learnt how to counter cloak, or they don't bother. It's almost like a mental block, which you appear to share. You would rather Cloak in it's current form didn't exist, so you don't have to deal with it, because of how annoying it can be. What kind of an argument is "adding chaos in realistic amounts"? That is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Please understand that not everyone shares that sentiment. Your well-intentioned attempts at redesigning Cloak are misplaced.

Sparxlost · April 2023

1. without breaking cloak, you would be able to stealth your way through a delve and it would even cost you less magicka than the original way. if you are going to stop and attack every group of mobs you see then what was the point of cloak other than to get the initial drop on them anyway??? So maybe the buff and cooldown can be reduced to 15seconds instead of 30 if you wanted more stealth uptime in combat, but stealth pots exists and the buffs nightblade could get from a nerfed stealth would more than make up for the loss i would think..

2. I acknowledge that the game has other problems, but that doesnt justify the making of a class to be nothing but a "noob killer"/crutch class.. There is nothing about that that requires or enables one to "git gud"... there are times when i literally get barred from pvping by nightblades and times when nightblades seemingly dont bother to exist.. its really odd.

3. By observe, im assuming you really mean to attack without consequence?? Because the nerf would still enable you to observe and disengage and would be more accessible to those with a low mag pool... Im not going to be proud of someone who gives up on doing things the way they originally wanted to but whatever good for them they are having fun winning...

4. I hard counters to stealth exist but if you werent required to invis spam to play then they would be less of a hard disabler for nightblades and more of a defensive tool and less than an offensive tool once nightblades are brought up to par with other classes..

Sparxlost · April 2023

fred4 wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

@Sparxlost, invisibility that doesn't reapply is completely useless. Having the hidden status without having to crouch is meaningless. It already exists. Being a vampire negates the speed penalty, and movement is so cheap and potentially fast (with Swift and/or RAT), you don't have stamina issues.

You're just another player who doesn't like nightblades. I do not accept your premise that everyone agrees with that and that NB needs to be changed. Nightblade is not currently top dog in PvP. Arguably DK is. If not, then the top spot is shared by NBs, DKs and wardens.

I don't believe it's in the best interest of an adversarial game, e.g. PvP, to get rid of playstyles that some players don't like. It's in the game's nature that some players hate nightblades for having to fight on the nightblade's terms (until they master detection), or for being dishonorable, cowards, a PITA, and so on. That is a valid reaction. It indicates the role-playing aspect of the game is working, not that the class needs to be altered (as long as it balanced and has counters, which it does). It's an open world RPG. It is unfair, nasty and unsportsmanlike in many ways. This is by design. Players can choose how they want to play. There is a culture of sportsmanship and mutual respect among some players. However the game doesn't enforce that. It allows you to explore other options. I think that's great.

Invisibility is currently substantially different from crouch, since it completely removes aggro from NPCs. This goes for flag guards, Imperial City NPCs, as it does for monsters in PvE. It's especially useful in crowded public dungeons for example. Like so many others you have no qualms letting those applications of Cloak be collateral damage. No thanks.

Think of it this way, instead of cloak being so powerful as an at-will tool and having the rest of the class being built around that, it would be a tool with a use allowing occasional and effective attacks without limiting the rest of nightblades kit inadvertently.. Its not that i dont like invis backstab playstyles but i do think in addition nightblade should be capable of more and not encouraged to JUST invis backstab.... This change makes backstabs less common in battle but with buffs to the rest of nightblades kit as assassins they will get kills more often when they can invis further adding chaos in realistic amounts to battles.. and in pve they can better avoid detection without having to spam a button every three seconds.. its not "getting rid of a playstyle" it is adding to it..

You don't seem to understand invisibility. Invisibility is not equal to crouch. Not in PvP. Not in PvE. If you remove invisibility, which is what you're doing, you seriously break / change Cloak in PvE for starters. You cannot avoid detection in PvE without actual Cloak. What you're saying how it should work boils down to wearing Darloc Brae in the current game. Try to run into a delve in crouch wearing that set (as a vampire) and see how far you get among densely packed mobs without Cloak. They will detect you. With invisibility they don't. Furthermore, if you fail to Cloak and are detected, you can by and large shake aggro by recloaking. With your proposed scheme that option goes away. There is a big difference between being a traditional stamblade that mixes and matches Cloak with crouch, and a magblade with better Cloak sustain.

As to ganking, have you tried that lately? The game is currently so tanky, it doesn't even work well. There are a whole host of different types of nightblades out there. What is limited about the nightblade's kit? You want to play a regular character, without Cloak, you can do that. You get a bunch of unique damage buffs that make you competitive. The idea that nightblade is held back and limited by Cloak balancing is only in your head. It is a flexible class.

On the most basic side, a nightblade with high cloak sustain allows new players to gain confidence, as they have the freedom to observe or disengage without losing their Tel Var or incurring long rides. That is how I gained confidence in PvP a long time ago. It's been the same for a new player I recently met, who was going to give up on PvP altogether. Nightblade cuts both ways. It kills inexperienced players, but it also aids them.

Cloak seems strong to newer players. However once you deal with experienced ones, then your opening statement "Cloak being so powerful" is wrong. Cloak is polarizing, because of ganking and because, when it works, it is the best disengage tool bar none. This is annoying to other players, but it is not OP. The key phrase is "when it works". Many players haven't learnt how to counter cloak, or they don't bother. It's almost like a mental block, which you appear to share. You would rather Cloak in it's current form didn't exist, so you don't have to deal with it, because of how annoying it can be. What kind of an argument is "adding chaos in realistic amounts"? That is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Please understand that not everyone shares that sentiment. Your well-intentioned attempts at redesigning Cloak are misplaced.

fred4 · April 2023

Sparxlost wrote: »

1. without breaking cloak, you would be able to stealth your way through a delve and it would even cost you less magicka than the original way. if you are going to stop and attack every group of mobs you see then what was the point of cloak other than to get the initial drop on them anyway??? So maybe the buff and cooldown can be reduced to 15seconds instead of 30 if you wanted more stealth uptime in combat, but stealth pots exists and the buffs nightblade could get from a nerfed stealth would more than make up for the loss i would think..

This is just ignorant of how mob aggro actually works. You will aggro mobs in crowded areas without attacking them, unless you are invisible. Crouching is not the same as invisibility.

2. I acknowledge that the game has other problems, but that doesnt justify the making of a class to be nothing but a "noob killer"/crutch class..

It is not exclusively a noob killer class nor a crutch class.

There is nothing about that that requires or enables one to "git gud"... there are times when i literally get barred from pvping by nightblades and times when nightblades seemingly dont bother to exist.. its really odd.

This is the real problem then, but please understand that is exclusively your problem. No competent player gets barred from PvPing by nightblades. By nightblade groups maybe, but that really goes for all uneven fights. There is a term you're not allowed to say in forums. It starts with L, has a number in it, and ends with P. The best thing you can do is play a nightblade yourself, so you understand their limitations better. The next best thing is probably to duel one and practice the oh so many way you can defeat cloak. In no particular order:

Use detection skills at the right time, e.g. proactively to prevent nightblades from cloaking away while they are visible and in your face. If you want to cut down on your use of detection, do it only once the nightblade as lost some health and they are likely to disengage.
Wear Sea Serpent for gank protection.
Wear Zoal and use Slippery CP to automatically counter-stun melee nightblades incapping you.
Dodge roll when you hear the Incap sound. That's why ultimates have a delay. On PC, use Miat's addon. It will make a warning sound fractionally earlier.
Be a DK. Use Talons. Use Breath. Use Flames of Oblivion. Use Deep Breath. Have added melee range. Use Shattering Rocks. Make it awkward to even be near you with all the damage you dish out.
If attacked by bow, dodge roll and find line of sight.
Use detection potions obviously. The nightblade won't even know you're detecting them, which makes things hard for them. Works especially well on sorc, going after them with Streak, but really on any class. Leap, if you're a DK.
Try Structured Entropy. It's bugged and will break Cloak.
Use 1H+S on the back bar and block. It's your defense against many things. Of course you will need to practice duelling and not run down your stamina in general. On the other hand, use a bow and dodge roll, Streak as a sorc, and so on. Would help if I knew your class.
Try the Sentry set.

3. By observe, im assuming you really mean to attack without consequence??

Nope. I mean observe. I do mean to gank at other times too, but once the nightblade engages that is not without consequence.

Because the nerf would still enable you to observe and disengage and would be more accessible to those with a low mag pool...

Nope. Again, please play a nightblade so you get a better understanding how the game actually works. If you are merely in crouch in Imperial City, for example, you have to be very circumspect and keep at a distance, threading your way through mobs everywhere. The flags are off limits altogether. Flag guards will detect and attack you as soon as you get close. Their detection range is pretty large.

once nightblades are brought up to par with other classes..

What are you talking about? Nightblades are currently regarded as on par. You can't place too much stock in tier lists, but the one I like was posted by Malcolm (sorc PvP YouTuber). He limited himself to saying only:

Top Tier = NB, DK, Warden
Bottom Tier = Templar, Sorc, Necro

I have my own opinions, but I think the above is pretty much how many people think the balance stands.

Trejgon · April 2023

fred4 wrote: »

Moreover guard NPCs always see you from quite a distance and aggressively go after you. This does not happen if you're cloaked.

My experience with maxed out sneak sorc says that this is not at all accurate - guards do not have any special detection bonuses. There are some NPCs that do, but guards are not one of them.

Moreso: my dunmer sorc, with all medium armor equipped, with all three stages of champion node that improves detectability radius when sneaking, 5p night mothers embrace set, and 3p night terror set, against most NPCs - including guards has to literally run into NPC to be detected. As in collide the hitboxes. From what I have heard, if you slap khajit racial bonus to sneak ontop of those, you will not get detected even then.

Sparxlost wrote: »

1. without breaking cloak, you would be able to stealth your way through a delve and it would even cost you less magicka than the original way. if you are going to stop and attack every group of mobs you see then what was the point of cloak other than to get the initial drop on them anyway??? So maybe the buff and cooldown can be reduced to 15seconds instead of 30 if you wanted more stealth uptime in combat, but stealth pots exists and the buffs nightblade could get from a nerfed stealth would more than make up for the loss i would think..

you can already sneak your way through all the delves without even being nightblde, or using any other mean of invisibility proper. No magicka cost attached, may want to invest in sneak cost reductions or big stamina pool tho.

I have no idea what the OP suggestion is supposed to be or try to achieve, but alot of people in here seems to lack understanding on how both invisibility and sneaking (crouching) works.

fred4 wrote: »

This is just ignorant of how mob aggro actually works. You will aggro mobs in crowded areas without attacking them, unless you are invisible. Crouching is not the same as invisibility.

This comment is just as ignorant on mechanics as the one it responds to - mobs have aggro on things with detected status that are within certain radius from them. Amplified enough crouching is just as good as invisibility to render you not detected. And therefore not aggroed.

Being invisible does not render you completely unaggroable, I've once managed to pull aggro in a public dungeon, while I was invisible with vampire stage 4 perk. Didn't drop invisibility, and frankly I have no idea how I did achieve it, but it did happen therefore it is mechanically possible. On additional note, the PTS patch notes lists fixing an issue where players that were under effect of invisibility, but wore some pieces of heavy armor, could be detected by players with CP node that allows detection of stealthed enemies from further away, which shows nicely how invisibility is supposed to work in-engine, and maybe it was same bug that caused me to draw aggro there.

That being said stealth mechanics in ESO are criminally underdocumented so I don't blame any of you for not knowing how it works.

fred4 · April 2023

Trejgon wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Moreover guard NPCs always see you from quite a distance and aggressively go after you. This does not happen if you're cloaked.

My experience with maxed out sneak sorc says that this is not at all accurate - guards do not have any special detection bonuses. There are some NPCs that do, but guards are not one of them.

I am talking about Cyro and IC guards. I am guessing you are not.

you can already sneak your way through all the delves without even being nightblde, or using any other mean of invisibility proper. No magicka cost attached, may want to invest in sneak cost reductions or big stamina pool tho.

I will give you that I have no experience with a full on detection radius reduction PvE build. The last time I tried something like that it was with Darloc Brae and one other set like it, but possibly before CP2.0 and definitely not Khajiit.