The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
[Hope for feedback.]Necromancer
Melzo
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I want to give an example based on other classes why the necromancer is so bad. Of course, in every patch you can find a build that will destroy other players. Like Dark Convergence Set + Vicious Death in Cyrodiil. And because of this combo or any other, the class is considered strong. But when you want to create your own non-meta assembly, you understand there is nothing to create from. In this case, it turns into a situation where during the whole day of playing on the battleground I see two necromancers .... Because the class is simply not interesting.
I understand why some abilities are strong and others are weak. This is a balance for pve content, but when you balance pve you have some very weird situations like the following..
And the first ability is a skeleton mage. This ability dealt direct damage over 16 seconds, roughly 2700-3200 each. But in patch 35 it deals 1700-2000 and lasts 20 seconds. The DK has the ability Flames of Oblivion, which deals damage four times in 15 seconds. Before patch 35, the damage of both abilities was about equal, but patch 35 nerfed the skeleton of the mage and the damage of the dragon knight remained the same, although both deal direct damage...
And here are the following two abilities for comparison. Crystal Fragments and Venom Skull. To begin with, let's look at the abilities in terms of basic spamming abilities. Crystal has a 33 percent chance of transforming. Relatively speaking, every third hit of the crystal will be 66 percent stronger. Every 3 skull hits will be 20 percent stronger. The crystal is cast and deals about 10 percent more damage than the standard spam ability, as a result, the third hit of the crystal is 176 percent damage from the standard spam ability, while the skull does 120 percent damage ...
You can take another spam ability and use it when the crystal goes off. But you can do the same with Venom Skull. As a result, every sorcerer runs with a crystal, but have you ever seen a necromancer with Venom Skull?
Expunge removes 2-4 negative buffs from you at the cost of your lives. Cleansing Ritual removes 2 to 5 debuffs, applies damage or healing in an area, and grants synergy to allies. Probably the best synergy in pvp...Expunge only use tanks in pvp to troll players.
Empowering Grasp. Empower no longer grants light and heavy attacks. And your pets take a ridiculous 1000 damage.
Bone Totem. This totem gives allies more than the necromancer himself. Remove the synergy and give at least a periodic heal or area damage. Or let you also activate your synergy so that you have more opportunities.
Avid Boneyard. This ability is intended for pvp, but in order to implement it you need to have harmony on jewelry and press two buttons to activate and monitor the cooldown .. I don’t understand one thing. Why does the necromancer have to keep this ability on the bar when he can't use it for 20 seconds. I would understand if she imposed a slowdown on the area or reduced armor. But it is needed only for synergy. As a result, we only have bomb builds.
In the last patch, the Arctic Wind ability of the Warden was changed. Something was taken away, something was added and it began to work better for all content, I hope the same will happen with necromancers. Since now it is simply not interesting to most and even to me this class is already. A choice of two buttons is not a class.
I understand why some abilities are strong and others are weak. This is a balance for pve content, but when you balance pve you have some very weird situations like the following..
And the first ability is a skeleton mage. This ability dealt direct damage over 16 seconds, roughly 2700-3200 each. But in patch 35 it deals 1700-2000 and lasts 20 seconds. The DK has the ability Flames of Oblivion, which deals damage four times in 15 seconds. Before patch 35, the damage of both abilities was about equal, but patch 35 nerfed the skeleton of the mage and the damage of the dragon knight remained the same, although both deal direct damage...
And here are the following two abilities for comparison. Crystal Fragments and Venom Skull. To begin with, let's look at the abilities in terms of basic spamming abilities. Crystal has a 33 percent chance of transforming. Relatively speaking, every third hit of the crystal will be 66 percent stronger. Every 3 skull hits will be 20 percent stronger. The crystal is cast and deals about 10 percent more damage than the standard spam ability, as a result, the third hit of the crystal is 176 percent damage from the standard spam ability, while the skull does 120 percent damage ...
You can take another spam ability and use it when the crystal goes off. But you can do the same with Venom Skull. As a result, every sorcerer runs with a crystal, but have you ever seen a necromancer with Venom Skull?
Expunge removes 2-4 negative buffs from you at the cost of your lives. Cleansing Ritual removes 2 to 5 debuffs, applies damage or healing in an area, and grants synergy to allies. Probably the best synergy in pvp...Expunge only use tanks in pvp to troll players.
Empowering Grasp. Empower no longer grants light and heavy attacks. And your pets take a ridiculous 1000 damage.
Bone Totem. This totem gives allies more than the necromancer himself. Remove the synergy and give at least a periodic heal or area damage. Or let you also activate your synergy so that you have more opportunities.
Avid Boneyard. This ability is intended for pvp, but in order to implement it you need to have harmony on jewelry and press two buttons to activate and monitor the cooldown .. I don’t understand one thing. Why does the necromancer have to keep this ability on the bar when he can't use it for 20 seconds. I would understand if she imposed a slowdown on the area or reduced armor. But it is needed only for synergy. As a result, we only have bomb builds.
In the last patch, the Arctic Wind ability of the Warden was changed. Something was taken away, something was added and it began to work better for all content, I hope the same will happen with necromancers. Since now it is simply not interesting to most and even to me this class is already. A choice of two buttons is not a class.
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Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭Agreed
Bad spamable
Bad crowd control
No execute
No single target dot, while class has specific passive to buff dots
No major sorcery/brutality
When i play necro in pvp it doesn't feel like i play a necromancer, only class ability i use offensively is blastbones.Edited by Greek_Hellspawn on 14 September 2022 09:112 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Two years ago, when the greymoor chapter came out, I used 5 pieces of heavy armor and a malacat. SPD was somewhere around 1500-2000. I did not enhance the spell damage and the damage to the rock rider by 28 thousand in any way. Now I get 6200 in different sets.... And I put the same amount. Back then I was protected and now I deal barely that much with all procs and die from spitting....0
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the skeletal archer is far better than the skeletal mage right now
the skeletal archer gets a stacking +15% dmg bonus every hit (with hits every 2 sec that is approximately 150% dmg bonus on the last hit, i say approximate because the +15% dmg value is based on the previous hit, so it wont be exactly 150% total bonus from the base hit)
its still not the best because the dmg still feels way too slow for how much its doing
for necromancer to have a passive increasing dot dmg, their class kit seriously lacks a lot of good dots and they seem too heavily reliant on burst dmg0 -
Zekka✭✭✭✭I fully agree with OP and the second poster.
The class is just ill-conceived which people have said since its introduction, and now that its survivability has been gutted (50% nerf on Mender and 20% on Tether) it's even more obvious.2 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Necro is in dire need for a complete pvp overhaul. Its ill designed and bugged to the core. Every patch I list the same bugs in PTS Feedback section but they go ignored so I've little hope for any meaningful progress for this class.Edited by Ankael07 on 14 September 2022 18:50If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.3 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭necromancer needs: a pet that is always out (like a specter that is distinct from the wraith)
better dots
blastbones to apply dot based on morph (and the flaming to have the 50% extra potential damage converted to dot form, unless they actually run for 5 seconds to get the 50% then it's all DD)
flaming skull to also apply dots and stacking damage depending on the number of dots on the opponent.
hungering scythe to, you know, maybe deal bleed damage in magic or disease form depending on the morph
overall, necromancer needs more dots and a persistent pet.Edited by Dr_Con on 14 September 2022 19:301 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A persistent undead pet will cause major problems out in the PvE world, with necromancy being a criminal activity and all. Unless the devs retcon that one single ability to not be illegal.0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭The Necro class is for PVE content only. As companions for quests. I doubt that someone will take companions in the trial, the class was also developed only for pve and they did not take care of pvp in the slightest way.
shocking siphon. Increases damage by 3%. Good ability in pve but no one will take such a useless skill in pvp and lose 3% damage as a result, zos could tie 3% to passive skills but they added it to the active skill forcing you to take it in pve and lose it in pvp.
Funeral ringing. Passive ability, useful only in PvE. Yes, it's still in the finishing phase. I don't know what the Zos mean by this, but the Necromancer, even with this passive, has never been known for high critical damage. They could give crit chance or crit like other classes, but no, they gave the most situational passive. It is useless in 90 percent of cases and is needed only with high dps on a solo target and requiring the ability of a necromancer... What can I say pve pve pve. *** pvp.
Armor of the Summoner. The worst skill among all classes, which gives Major Resolve and Major Ward. I don't need those 15 percent. You can compare it to any other class ability that provides similar buffs and realize that this skill just lags behind. How about a 15% cost reduction for three abilities or a rune that heals you and restores your resources? Or maybe a sorcerer that gives acceleration and damage ?? DK shield/damage + damage in return. I think anyone would turn down that ridiculous 15 percent. The skeletal mage lasts 20 seconds and the spirit lasts 16. Works well only on blasts. Even if it gave 150 resource recovery, it was still head and shoulders above the current skill type.
Collection of Death. Another passive ability that grants resource recovery through killing. To get 1000 stamina and 1000 mana you need 5 players to die near you. Pure pve skill.
They wrote to me that this class has free abilities and this is imba. But in general, we see a bunch of passive abilities that give us the restoration of resources and their reduction, as well as the ability to absorb corpses. It makes perfect sense for a class to have very powerful abilities that are very expensive in mana and rarely used. But no, we have 6 abilities and only 1.5 (blast + synergy) we can use in pvp.
I can say this for every skill and passive ability, but here it's clear what I meant. The class needs reworking. Why are other classes good for both pve and pvp, while the necromancer is purely a pve class?Edited by Melzo on 15 September 2022 10:302 -
necromancer is dead because you can't cast summons out of combat. Sorcs can. Its unbalanced.
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CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭eternalshockcable wrote: »necromancer is dead because you can't cast summons out of combat. Sorcs can. Its unbalanced.
You can absolutely cast your summons out of combat as a necro. The only one you can't is blastbones as that requires a target0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Over the course of the last few major patches, necromancer has been shoe-horned further and further into the harmony playstyle. Most of their other class abilities are direct downgrades of other abilities, they are missing a large number of buffs from their kit (no major sorcery or brutality really hurts build diversity), and they are now the only class without an on demand stun.
A number of abilities could use total reworks, or at the very least substantial buffs. IMO, the corpse mechanics could also use a rework. You should be able to create corpses sooner across the board in my opinion in order to really promote their consumption, and the corpses should probably last for a minimum of 8 seconds or so across the board.
Skulls: this ability, much like Cliff Racer, just feels horrible to use. The damage is average, even when considering the 20% buff, but the real downside is the animation. The skill doesn't weave very well at all, will often hang on the animation, and is one of the easiest skills to dodge or block in the game.
Arcanist/Archer: This skill was stealth nerfed in U35 as OP said. The reasoning behind the stealth nerf is perplexing, since neither morph was frequently used anyways. Now they're both pretty useless, as even with the 15% stacking buff that archer got, the 50% stealth nerf means the damage is still lackluster. On top of this, the fact they extended this skills timer means that corpses can't be generated as quickly.
Ghost: Might be a bit of a hot take, but I actually don't mind the ghost nerfs. Intensive absolutely needed a nerf as it was grossly overtuned. Spirit Guardian didn't necessarily need a healing nerf imo, but after with resistances already being a little higher this patch, the 10% mitigation still feels strong. However, with the nerf to intensive, it's now much harder to play a build with high corpse generation because you should probably be running the longer duration Guardian.
Empowering Grasp: What an absolute slap in the face the last round of changes to this skill was. They buffed it to encourage use, and then removed it entirely from PvP with the changes to Empower. The skill should probably give its bonus to your minions by just being on your bar, and give it some other added effect on cast.
Blastbones: Besides Graverobber, this skill is the saving grace of Necro. Blastbones is a good damage skill, but could probably see a bit more of a distinction (NOT A NERF) between the 2 versions, as Hybridization changes now heavily favor Stalking over Blighted as Stalking will deal much more damage.
Finally, for the love of God please let pets proc sets. The fact that necro can't proc things with its pets is ludicrous considering they function very similar to other class' abilities that can proc sets (like cauterize, shalks, etc)Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on 20 September 2022 18:061 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Looking forward to the next patch. I hope at least buff empower will be fixed. I don't even believe in renewing the necromancer. The only thing they can change is damage or healing and for PvE content only. And pvp will suffer again0
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
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And here are the following two abilities for comparison. Crystal Fragments and Venom Skull. To begin with, let's look at the abilities in terms of basic spamming abilities. Crystal has a 33 percent chance of transforming. Relatively speaking, every third hit of the crystal will be 66 percent stronger. Every 3 skull hits will be 20 percent stronger. The crystal is cast and deals about 10 percent more damage than the standard spam ability, as a result, the third hit of the crystal is 176 percent damage from the standard spam ability, while the skull does 120 percent damage ...
You can take another spam ability and use it when the crystal goes off. But you can do the same with Venom Skull. As a result, every sorcerer runs with a crystal, but have you ever seen a necromancer with Venom Skull?
Don't forget with this comparison that frags requires a 0.8 second cast time outside of the proc while skull is an instant cast ability, and unlike the skulls which gets the bonus damage guaranteed on every third cast, frags is an rng based proc that is not guaranteed to get its bonus damage (quite frequently I'm lucky if I get it very 4th or 5th cast and extremely rare to get it every second cast let alone back-to-back).
Don't get me wrong, skulls definitely needs a buff, but it would be better to compare it to a similar ability such as nb's swallow soul or the destro reach abilities or force pulse (all 3 are ranged insta-cast abilities with a bonus effect and slightly lower base damage) instead of an ability that works differently at its core such as frags.2 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭0.8 seconds?? You tell this to all players who use Snipe or Dizzying Swing. Especially Dizzying Swing. It is harder to use than crystal. Crystal after use reduces mana cost by 10 percent and hits more because of its pronunciation. And he can work twice or even three times on his own. Curse and crystal are the most powerful skills of the sorcerer on par with the blastbones of the necromancer. But you have a crystal, knives, a curse. You wanted to see the necromancer have two more damage skills like blastbones. And I see 3 skills of the sorcerer in terms of damage like blastbones ..
Just because you don't use a crystal as a spam ability doesn't mean it isn't.0 -
Elendir2am✭✭✭✭0.8 seconds?? You tell this to all players who use Snipe or Dizzying Swing. Especially Dizzying Swing. It is harder to use than crystal. Crystal after use reduces mana cost by 10 percent and hits more because of its pronunciation. And he can work twice or even three times on his own. Curse and crystal are the most powerful skills of the sorcerer on par with the blastbones of the necromancer. But you have a crystal, knives, a curse. You wanted to see the necromancer have two more damage skills like blastbones. And I see 3 skills of the sorcerer in terms of damage like blastbones ..
Just because you don't use a crystal as a spam ability doesn't mean it isn't.
It looks to me, that you wish for necro to be like sorcerer. Sorcerer is broken class now, so it looks to me as poorly thought out wish.0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Elendir2am wrote: »0.8 seconds?? You tell this to all players who use Snipe or Dizzying Swing. Especially Dizzying Swing. It is harder to use than crystal. Crystal after use reduces mana cost by 10 percent and hits more because of its pronunciation. And he can work twice or even three times on his own. Curse and crystal are the most powerful skills of the sorcerer on par with the blastbones of the necromancer. But you have a crystal, knives, a curse. You wanted to see the necromancer have two more damage skills like blastbones. And I see 3 skills of the sorcerer in terms of damage like blastbones ..
Just because you don't use a crystal as a spam ability doesn't mean it isn't.
It looks to me, that you wish for necro to be like sorcerer. Sorcerer is broken class now, so it looks to me as poorly thought out wish.
The sorcerer has no heal. But nothing prevents you from taking a heal for stamina and a staff of restoration.hybridization time. Why should I mix abilities and you don't?0 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭0.8 seconds?? You tell this to all players who use Snipe or Dizzying Swing. Especially Dizzying Swing. It is harder to use than crystal. Crystal after use reduces mana cost by 10 percent and hits more because of its pronunciation. And he can work twice or even three times on his own. Curse and crystal are the most powerful skills of the sorcerer on par with the blastbones of the necromancer. But you have a crystal, knives, a curse. You wanted to see the necromancer have two more damage skills like blastbones. And I see 3 skills of the sorcerer in terms of damage like blastbones ..
Just because you don't use a crystal as a spam ability doesn't mean it isn't.
I never said it wasn't a spammable, I said it has a cast time. Dizzy is much harder to dodge than frags because dizzy has no travel time and snipe at least doesn't show a glowing crystal travelling at you. The only (and I MEAN ONLY!) reason frags and curse are good in the sorc kit is because the rest of the kit outside of streak is complete and utter garbage for pvp.
Bound armaments is a pathetically bad version of merciless resolve, dealing significantly lower damage and providing no additional buffs. It used to have a niche with its light attack buff, but that got removed and the devs had to completely reverse the damage nerf they did to that skill cause of how bad it was and it still is only average now and that's if it lands.
You have clearly never played sorcerer, the class (mag in particular) is absolute garbage this patch and will continue to be so next patch as well. the class has even less usable skills than necro and has 0 viable builds for pvp. Unlike necro, the ENTIRE sorc combo gets beaten by a single dodge roll, curse has the longest delay (12 seconds) for the lowest payoff for a delayed burst skill, blast bones is by far a superior delayed burst ability with higher damage and providing useful debuffs on the enemy it hits. Not to mention frags is horrible to weave and completely screws up bar swaps mid combat so you can forget trying to get to the back bar mid combat to survive. Oh and lets not forget that if a sorc gets interrupted while casting frags, dark deal or trying to summon a pet, the skill that got interrupted gets HARD LOCKED (greyed out and cannot be used at all) for 3 seconds as well as stunning the sorc, what other class has its entire heal kit as well as what is supposed to be its class spammable tied to abilities that hard lock themselves if they are interrupted.
If you're having trouble beating sorc, learn to dodge roll, you'll mitigate 99% of sorcs damage with 1 of those and the remaining damage is easily healed off with a single vigor.2 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »0.8 seconds?? You tell this to all players who use Snipe or Dizzying Swing. Especially Dizzying Swing. It is harder to use than crystal. Crystal after use reduces mana cost by 10 percent and hits more because of its pronunciation. And he can work twice or even three times on his own. Curse and crystal are the most powerful skills of the sorcerer on par with the blastbones of the necromancer. But you have a crystal, knives, a curse. You wanted to see the necromancer have two more damage skills like blastbones. And I see 3 skills of the sorcerer in terms of damage like blastbones ..
Just because you don't use a crystal as a spam ability doesn't mean it isn't.
I never said it wasn't a spammable, I said it has a cast time. Dizzy is much harder to dodge than frags because dizzy has no travel time and snipe at least doesn't show a glowing crystal travelling at you. The only (and I MEAN ONLY!) reason frags and curse are good in the sorc kit is because the rest of the kit outside of streak is complete and utter garbage for pvp.
Bound armaments is a pathetically bad version of merciless resolve, dealing significantly lower damage and providing no additional buffs. It used to have a niche with its light attack buff, but that got removed and the devs had to completely reverse the damage nerf they did to that skill cause of how bad it was and it still is only average now and that's if it lands.
You have clearly never played sorcerer, the class (mag in particular) is absolute garbage this patch and will continue to be so next patch as well. the class has even less usable skills than necro and has 0 viable builds for pvp. Unlike necro, the ENTIRE sorc combo gets beaten by a single dodge roll, curse has the longest delay (12 seconds) for the lowest payoff for a delayed burst skill, blast bones is by far a superior delayed burst ability with higher damage and providing useful debuffs on the enemy it hits. Not to mention frags is horrible to weave and completely screws up bar swaps mid combat so you can forget trying to get to the back bar mid combat to survive. Oh and lets not forget that if a sorc gets interrupted while casting frags, dark deal or trying to summon a pet, the skill that got interrupted gets HARD LOCKED (greyed out and cannot be used at all) for 3 seconds as well as stunning the sorc, what other class has its entire heal kit as well as what is supposed to be its class spammable tied to abilities that hard lock themselves if they are interrupted.
If you're having trouble beating sorc, learn to dodge roll, you'll mitigate 99% of sorcs damage with 1 of those and the remaining damage is easily healed off with a single vigor.
The sorcerer has the highest ranged damage and the highest mobility. Nothing prevents you from making a sorcerer with 33 ka hp and heals due to stamina heals and a staff of restoration, and with damage he is definitely all right. I have seen a bunch of mana sorcerers and they are very powerful. I've seen a mix build of an archer with a mana shield. I finished all BGs with a score of 20-0 .... No need to tell fairy tales that the sorcerer is weak. Try to kill the sorcerer with a necromancer. Stam the Sorcerer is now simply the strongest class along with the NB in the game. If you're losing because you're playing the same meta as you were two years ago, that's your problem. And the sorcerer is very strong...0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭If I had played meta two years ago, I would have been running with dead sets from markat....0
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WrathOfRegicide✭✭✭I think they also need to improve shocking siphon they should have it directly connect to an NPC/player rather connect with a dead NPC/character at around 600-900 range if you or the player/NPC leaves that radius it disconnects; this way it will ensure at least some of the damage connects with something rather than trying to angle it so your "siphon" is hitting npcs/players.
Another issue they could fix is the other lackluster skills for example grave grasp I do not see anyone use that skill, there is a skill that NPC necromancers use that does a blue aoe that causes a cripple like function with moderate damage.
Bone totem I think that should be removed and instead have the fear stay on your character and trigger fear every 3 seconds with a 1 second fear and this would last 6 seconds. It would act like nightblades terror skill but instead of one mass fear it would have 2 with less of a duration.
Just some ideas I've had while playing necromancer since it came out. I know there will be people who disagree with me but ah well haha.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quoted post has been removed.
i think more of the accidental bounties from either forgetting to despawn the pet before going into a town or PTE out of a dungeon straight into a town
most of my characters i usually leave in a town near the crafting tables so i can just quickly PTE out of a dungeon when finished, i would forget every time to despawn the pets before going into the town i would end up just not using the pets to begin with lolEdited by ZOS_GregoryV on 15 October 2022 03:160 -
Maul_Rat✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Quoted post has been removed.
i think more of the accidental bounties from either forgetting to despawn the pet before going into a town or PTE out of a dungeon straight into a town
most of my characters i usually leave in a town near the crafting tables so i can just quickly PTE out of a dungeon when finished, i would forget every time to despawn the pets before going into the town i would end up just not using the pets to begin with lol
There is no risk of gaining a bounty. The bounty system is meaningless.
The only reason necros can't have pets is because of performance. I think that's why ESO will never be as good as it could be...Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on 15 October 2022 03:21I just want man flesh.0 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭for a long time i struggled to create a good off meta build for necro. i always felt this class sucks! recently i found what works so as to give it breathing room for build freedom.
quite simply, use oakensoul, then slot spirit guardian and mortal coil and vigor. now build into damage to scale up healing, and dont forget good healing cp for cyro. if you keep your HoTs up, you will be tanky with little hp and armor simply from the health pouring in. you use block/dodge instead of burst healing.
from there, take whatever other abilities and sets you want (though blastbones may be obvious, its not mandatory)0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭When do you think the necromancer season will be? At first there was a dk, then a sorcerer is now a warden. The NB season, as it started, has not yet ended so clearly. The templar and the necromancer remained.0
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Baertram✭✭✭✭✭If you only cannot cast your Blastbones out of combat you seem to have some benefits, as I cannot cast my healing ghost out of combat, and I canmnot begin my combat with the ultimate anymore!!! So this class is unbalanced for sure compared to the sorc, indeed!
Edit:
Nevermind, it was an addon called "NoAccidentalStealing" which added "No criminal ability casting" as a feature. As the texts describing this were missing in the addon settings ( :-( ) I was not able to find it...Edited by Baertram on 3 April 2023 10:470