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I hope Arcanist won’t be biased towards magicka

Nyseto
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The previews were showing it dual wielding axes and using that tentacle skill which looks to be melee. An entire skill line is called “apocryphal soldier”. I just hope there will be plenty of stamina morphs. Thoughts?
Edited by ZOS_Icy on 12 March 2023 18:23
  • phaneub17_ESO
    phaneub17_ESO
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    Look at Necromancer and throwing a "poison" skull. I don't know how that works other than trying to make it filler just to fit the narrative that it's "Stamina" the mechanics of it doesn't make sense to me.
  • colossalvoids
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    Isn't he even called arcanist? Jokes aside if you'll look up necro skill trees I'd be 90% sure that will be the the same exact ratio of stam versus mag morphs you'll get as it's their latest example of a class given they are in love with standardisation for better or worse.
  • ZOS_Icy
    ZOS_Icy
    mod
    Greetings,

    After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

    Thank you for your understanding.
    Staff Post
  • Castagere
    Castagere
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    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.
  • Soarora
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    Look at Necromancer and throwing a "poison" skull. I don't know how that works other than trying to make it filler just to fit the narrative that it's "Stamina" the mechanics of it doesn't make sense to me.

    Although it takes magicka to cast traditional magic skills, I could see necromancy as a school that would use magicka, stamina, and health. Magicka for the base so it is a spell and stamina and/or health for the vitality aspect if the necromancer so chooses (alternatively, pure magicka casting), as you're giving life to something that is dead in one way or another. Arcanist is also supposed to be based in the cryptic, the incomprehensible. I could see it having spells that are stamina-focused, even using entirely stamina with no magicka at all, resulting in spell appearances not previously conceived. But that's all lore, mechanically it doesn't matter.
    Edited by Soarora on 12 March 2023 22:20
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
  • Elsonso
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    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    All classes are "magicka biased". We should have had full stamina and magicka skill lines for each class starting at Level 1.

    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
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    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • yadibroz
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    All classes are "magicka biased". We should have had full stamina and magicka skill lines for each class starting at Level 1.

    Yes agree
  • Castagere
    Castagere
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    All classes are "magicka biased". We should have had full stamina and magicka skill lines for each class starting at Level 1.

    100% this
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    I disagree, and hybridization makes this even less necessary since you can now use skills in your off resource at your full power. I think it’s very uninteresting when there is little difference between morphs other than being magicka or stamina. Similarly, I think it’s dull to have DPS, healing, and tanking skill lines instead of themes like the first four classes have. I prefer when morphs change a skills utility, which may include which resource it uses, but also whether a skill is damage or support or defense focused, etc. In my opinion, nightblade does a great job of this, with options for different playstyles, PVE and PVP viability, and good utility for tanking, healing, and DPS. I only wish all the other classes were as versatile.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    I disagree, and hybridization makes this even less necessary since you can now use skills in your off resource at your full power. I think it’s very uninteresting when there is little difference between morphs other than being magicka or stamina. Similarly, I think it’s dull to have DPS, healing, and tanking skill lines instead of themes like the first four classes have. I prefer when morphs change a skills utility, which may include which resource it uses, but also whether a skill is damage or support or defense focused, etc. In my opinion, nightblade does a great job of this, with options for different playstyles, PVE and PVP viability, and good utility for tanking, healing, and DPS. I only wish all the other classes were as versatile.

    If there were class skill lines for stamina and magicka from the start, they could have designed it so that hybrids were intrinsic to the game, rather than something they attempted to bolt on years later. They are doing this work today because, at some point, they made the mistake of using morphs. This, with the supporting game design, forced each class to be split in half. Now they are trying to undo this, and in my opinion, trying to accomplish this without fixing the problem. Duct tape and bailing wire. But, it is what it is, and they are playing the hand they have.
    Edited by Elsonso on 13 March 2023 13:09
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
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  • Flangdoodle
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    Isn't he even called arcanist?

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arcanist

    "arcanist
    [ ahr-key-nist ]
    noun
    a person professing special secret knowledge concerning ceramics, especially concerning the making of porcelain"

  • I_killed_Vivec
    I_killed_Vivec
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    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    I disagree, and hybridization makes this even less necessary since you can now use skills in your off resource at your full power. I think it’s very uninteresting when there is little difference between morphs other than being magicka or stamina. Similarly, I think it’s dull to have DPS, healing, and tanking skill lines instead of themes like the first four classes have. I prefer when morphs change a skills utility, which may include which resource it uses, but also whether a skill is damage or support or defense focused, etc. In my opinion, nightblade does a great job of this, with options for different playstyles, PVE and PVP viability, and good utility for tanking, healing, and DPS. I only wish all the other classes were as versatile.

    Hybridization might scale of your higher resource, but it doesn't change the cost of the skills.

    The majority of skills are magica based - OK, so they scale of your stamina if you have a greater stamina pool, but then you have a lesser magica pool to call on to actually cast them! If I have 40k magica, 15k stam then I can cast more mag skills than if I have 40k stam and 15k mag - even if they hit the same, the stam based char will simply run out of magica.

    Which makes it much easier for a mag char to balance attack power, shields, and heals, and only use stamina for block/roll/break free.

    Whereas a stam char can't use as many class skills, and so has to rely on weapon skills. And so no matter how viable they might be, these stamina based characters tend to lose out on class identity.

    But I definitely agree about the themed skill lines, much better than the obvious damage/tank/healer lines. There was a time when ZoS said you could play how you wanted, and that included not having to conform to the holy trinity. Those days were short lived.
  • Faulgor
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    Castagere wrote: »
    We should have had magic and stamina morph choices for all the classes to start with.

    Gameplay-wise that might make sense, but IMO all stamina morphs that look like magic are kinda stupid.

    Conceptually they had the right idea in the beginning with a split between Spell and Weapon Damage (a name that hasn't made sense for years), as well as class and weapon abilities. Problem was that class abilites were much more numerous and in most cases better than weapon abilities, so building a full stamina build was impossible.
    They could have chosen to add more weapon abilities, but opted for class stamina morphs instead, probably because otherwise classes might be seen as superfluous.

    IMO, when first designing the game, the didn't really know why they wanted to have classes in the first place, or what the relationship between magicka and stamina should be, and we've been suffering for it ever since. ESO is the gaming definition of "measure once, cut twice".
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    IMO, when first designing the game, the didn't really know why they wanted to have classes in the first place, or what the relationship between magicka and stamina should be, and we've been suffering for it ever since. ESO is the gaming definition of "measure once, cut twice".

    I characterize it more along the lines that they measured and cut properly, but they hadn't decided what the measurement should be before they did that. :smile: Later, they had a better idea, and then did the second cut. I suspect that, after that, they followed up with a third cut. Time will tell if they are actually done. :wink:
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