what is this new brawler bomb

Theignson · March 2023

In the past few weeks I;ve seen (mostly NB) bombers who use soul tether followed by Brawler-- but the Brawler hits insanely hard. My DK with 25k resists and 3300 impen (when rallying cry is up) was hit for a 26k Brawler single hit. 26k !! The NB: 1) was not cloaked and didnt cloak between swings (so no forced crit). 2) there were only ~5 other players at the front door.

I have many times played a Master's 2H + Brawler build but never got anywhere near that damage on a player.

I took out my Stam DK, got corrosive and hit some groups of players. With 7k weapon damage and infinite penetration I got hits between 4-6k with Master's Greatsword. The best hit I got with Corrosive was ~9k.The players weren't blocking on Combat metric recap.

So I can't see how it's possible that these NB builds are hitting so much harder than that-- is it some particular set?

The build must be widely known since I am seeing it on more and more NB bombers

olsborg · March 2023

Master 2 handed weapon.

katorga · March 2023

DK should out damage a NB with that build....Corrosive. The part of Brawler that Masters buffs is the direct damage part. Most bombers doing it are DKs.

Theignson · March 2023

You guys-- read my post. I put Master's Greatsword on my DK, went into corrosive, hit brawler and my biggest hit was 9k on a group, average hit was 5k.

I am seeing huge hits by NB -- not DK-- that is what I am trying to figure out.

Since my DK had 7k weapon damage and infinite penetration I don't see how the NB got so much more damage

Vaqual · March 2023

Theignson wrote: »

... there were only ~5 other players at the front door.

Bonus damage caps at 6 targets, so you were hit for the full bonus damage.

Theignson wrote: »

Since my DK had 7k weapon damage and infinite penetration I don't see how the NB got so much more damage

The bonus damage is flat and doesn't scale with weapon damage, but it can crit. Probably he was just capped (or overcapped to account for crit resistance) on crit damage.

High enough base tooltip + 9k flat bonus + pen + % modifiers + crit... I don't see why this is in any way surprising. Have you been hit by a Spec Bow or a Whip lately?

TechMaybeHic · March 2023

I have not seen NBs doing it so much but either way; were you using Rush of Agony with chains on your DK? Targets have to be pretty tight and major berserk helps.

Theignson · March 2023

"The bonus damage is flat and doesn't scale with weapon damage, but it can crit. Probably he was just capped (or overcapped to account for crit resistance) on crit damage.

High enough base tooltip + 9k flat bonus + pen + % modifiers + crit... I don't see why this is in any way surprising. "

You aren't considering resists plus battle spirit. Battlespirit reduces the 9000 to 4500, 25k resists reduces it another 40%, crit resist reduces the crit damage by 40%. Add in base brawler damage of lets say 4k. Add in a critical hit with 125% damage. That makes ~ 5k damage plus ~100% crit damage = a 10k hit.

How do you do the math to get from 10k to 26k??

Also, with my DK they essentially had no resists, but I dont have max critical damage, so my 9k hit is much closer to the above calculations.

Spectral bow is another thing altogether, hits absurdly hard and out of all proprtion to a skill that requires no resources--- but that's a whole nother post, lol.

Vaqual · March 2023

Of course, I didn't provide an in-depth mathematical breakdown, but your calculation is also trivializing the situation. Your armor and crit resist can be negated by stacking pen and crit damage (beyond 125%). I know I have been hit by 20k+ spec bows and if the set-bonus buffed tooltip of brawler adds up to something similar to assasins will I wouldn't be surprised if a build could hit me with a 20k+ brawler. It would surely be a fully offensive bomber/ganker build, but just going by the numbers I have seen in death recap I don't find it too hard to imagine that this adds up. After all, a 6-targets titanic cleave is one of the more respectable tooltips in the game.

Edit: I am also not gonna do a full calculation without knowing the loadout, but even without incap +major/minor vuln (up to another 35 % incoming, buffs also titanic cleave bonus) you could slap another 25 % on the base tooltip just from major(wrecking or reapers mark)/minor(camo hunter) berserk and concealed weapon. So just listing your defenses and stating that you can not reproduce the numbers isn't sufficient. Especially if you provide no information about your crit/offensive buffs/debuffs at all.

axi · March 2023

Meanwhile Dks hitting for up to 83k dmg in their bombs.

Turtle_Bot · March 2023

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

Lebkuchen · March 2023

26k is too high and does not sound right. It's almost unbelievable.

axi · March 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

If You watch the video that screenshot is taken from You will see that there were no NPCs alive during the bomb. People standing in the middle of the bomb got full stack of dmg getting 73 and 83k ticks.

katorga · March 2023

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

If You watch the video that screenshot is taken from You will see that there were no NPCs alive during the bomb. People standing in the middle of the bomb got full stack of dmg getting 73 and 83k ticks.

Those 25K hits are in line with what the original post referenced, regardless of the 83K hits. 25K is ridiculous on its own.

What I cannot figure is what the OP is missing that is preventing him from replicating the damage on his DK. My view is that a DK "on paper" should have higher damage than a NB using this build, but you never know, there are NB builds out there with 152% crit to overcome crit resistance, maybe crit is pushing them past what is possible with 100% pen.

12s of 100% pen or the ability to stack 152% crit are both sort of unbalanced imo.

Weckless · March 2023

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

If You watch the video that screenshot is taken from You will see that there were no NPCs alive during the bomb. People standing in the middle of the bomb got full stack of dmg getting 73 and 83k ticks.

im pretty sure you can't hit higher than someone's remaining health. so that means there were multiple emporers in that bomb i guess?

Lebkuchen · March 2023

Weckless wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

If You watch the video that screenshot is taken from You will see that there were no NPCs alive during the bomb. People standing in the middle of the bomb got full stack of dmg getting 73 and 83k ticks.

im pretty sure you can't hit higher than someone's remaining health. so that means there were multiple emporers in that bomb i guess?

Yes, you can hit higher than someone's remaining health. Just look at the execute numbers next time you kill someone, or someone kills you.

TechMaybeHic · March 2023

Weckless wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

If You watch the video that screenshot is taken from You will see that there were no NPCs alive during the bomb. People standing in the middle of the bomb got full stack of dmg getting 73 and 83k ticks.

im pretty sure you can't hit higher than someone's remaining health. so that means there were multiple emporers in that bomb i guess?

Fly numbers show what an ability would do. If you capture logs, though; it usually shows the actual value

axi · March 2023

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

83k damage against NPCs

those hits on players were 25-36k, still ridiculous, but lets not completely misconstrue the facts here

If You watch the video that screenshot is taken from You will see that there were no NPCs alive during the bomb. People standing in the middle of the bomb got full stack of dmg getting 73 and 83k ticks.

im pretty sure you can't hit higher than someone's remaining health. so that means there were multiple emporers in that bomb i guess?

Fly numbers show what an ability would do. If you capture logs, though; it usually shows the actual value

Excatly. Even if someone have 1k health he can still get hit by 80k hit, it will just take 1k of his health.

StaticWave · March 2023

Theignson wrote: »

In the past few weeks I;ve seen (mostly NB) bombers who use soul tether followed by Brawler-- but the Brawler hits insanely hard. My DK with 25k resists and 3300 impen (when rallying cry is up) was hit for a 26k Brawler single hit. 26k !! The NB: 1) was not cloaked and didnt cloak between swings (so no forced crit). 2) there were only ~5 other players at the front door.

I have many times played a Master's 2H + Brawler build but never got anywhere near that damage on a player.

I took out my Stam DK, got corrosive and hit some groups of players. With 7k weapon damage and infinite penetration I got hits between 4-6k with Master's Greatsword. The best hit I got with Corrosive was ~9k.The players weren't blocking on Combat metric recap.

So I can't see how it's possible that these NB builds are hitting so much harder than that-- is it some particular set?

The build must be widely known since I am seeing it on more and more NB bombers

Was it your faction's keep or the NB's faction's keep? Because the guard applies a unique debuff making you take 30% more damage. That could also explain why you took a 26k Brawler.