Death of a campaign

gariondavey · January 2023

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

To give people some more metrics here to think about... The campaign in ravenwatch closes in 10 hours. After 30 days, there are only 36 people across the entire campaign who have scored more than 1 million AP. Compare that to Blackreach, where you need to have 2 million AP to even be within the top 100 players.

I spread out my playtime in rw over my main (stamplar) and alts (mag dk, magsorc, stamsorc, magden/stamden, stamblade) so I would have over 1m if they were all added up.

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Cp makes fights last way way way longer
You get absurd levels of damage mitigation, healing, and damage from cp
When they tried bgs with cp nobody died (which also happens in premade high mmr matches, but that is a consequence of cross healing and healers being extremely strong)
So they went back to no cp for bgs and things improved a lot

Edit: also @Dirt_Rooster , the "play how you want" thing refers to weapon + armor weight choices, not using procs or no procs, so your opening argument is fallacious in that regard. But please see my first point if you wish to read what my thoughts were on this matter in general

I don't think your points are very fair. You say that 75% of people you know prefer the no-proc format, so where are they? Ravenwatch consists of a couple people running around during primetime. The pvp is non-existent. It is barely more populated than the sub-50 campaign. I don't really understand the argument that bringing procs back would just bring in people trolling with mara's balm and other stuff like it. There's no pvp right now to begin with, how would anything not be an improvement? Mara's balm, earthgore, literally any set in the game is not going to have a big impact in no-cp. People actually die there. A set is not going to make you invincible like in CP. You want to build a tank? You're giving up a ton of damage and recovery.
And I do associate "playing how you want" with these restrictions. The main reason that people, especially low-cp and new players, do not want to be here... is because they either can't play the build they want to, or they don't feel like researching hours on end for what actually even works.
So many people here on the forums think that no-proc is such a good idea, that it makes for such a better form of pvp. WHERE ARE YOU THEN? Why do I not see more than 10 players online in this campaign during primetime on a saturday night? Why are you not playing the campaign if it is such a good idea?

Have you fought someone in mara's balm in a bg? You won't kill them with 1 person.

Sorry, but you associating "playing how you want" with set restrictions is your own fallacy. That's not what the devs said when they used that phrase.
Heck they even came out with a combat "deep dive" where they explicitly explained what that phrase means. I can find you a link if you can't find it.

What's interesting is no matter if ad is 1st or 3rd, many of the same players will be there, even if they are getting gate camped by ep like often happened the last few campaigns.

At the end of the day, you can complain about this all you want, but until zos does some actual polling and finds out what people actually want for campaigns, nothing will be done.

Elendir2am · January 2023

I would like to point out, that some of us don't choose favourite campaign because of set of rules and I don't think that it is small part of players.

PC EU I play GH because it has healthy population. Both RW or BR has often time, when one faction has bigger population and crush other two. I visited RW as well as BR with AD character and had some good time during 2:2:2 bars state. But everybody left when DC hit 3 bars and started go around with faction stack bigger than whole population of AD or EP. Defending keep alone against big blue zerg is waste of time and when they paint whole map blue, groups of 10 DC guard scroll gates, so nobody can go there.

It is logical, that nobody want to play low pop campaign, when low pop create such toxic behaviour. Healthy pop is cure for this problems. It leads to situations than, when healthy pop GH attracts majority of players and low pop RW and BR stay low pop. Self fuelled circle.

Luede · January 2023

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

To give people some more metrics here to think about... The campaign in ravenwatch closes in 10 hours. After 30 days, there are only 36 people across the entire campaign who have scored more than 1 million AP. Compare that to Blackreach, where you need to have 2 million AP to even be within the top 100 players.

yes, but this is not the result of non cp, but of non procc. in the time just before non procc, the non cp campaign was better populated. at least pc eu.

cps increase the imbalance between damage and healing even more, because you avoid more damage with cp than you gain.

Amottica · January 2023

I think the real issue is Zenimax has tried to cater to too many groups by offering a different flavor for each campaign when we only have enough players to fill one campaign.

Xarc · January 2023

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

To give people some more metrics here to think about... The campaign in ravenwatch closes in 10 hours. After 30 days, there are only 36 people across the entire campaign who have scored more than 1 million AP. Compare that to Blackreach, where you need to have 2 million AP to even be within the top 100 players.

as I said, RW pop isnt the same as the other campaigns.
Many veterans of ESO here, and most of them play slowly but surely and are decent fighters. You cant compare with random casual who play only weekend and who grow zergs who give hundreds of thousands AP to the decent players in greyhost

There's no zerg to bomb in RW, and even bombing is impossible in RW
There's no noob zerg to kill at a keep to get good AP deftic in RW.

RW isnt comparable.

And new life event just finished.

Dirt_Rooster · January 2023

Xarc wrote: »

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

To give people some more metrics here to think about... The campaign in ravenwatch closes in 10 hours. After 30 days, there are only 36 people across the entire campaign who have scored more than 1 million AP. Compare that to Blackreach, where you need to have 2 million AP to even be within the top 100 players.

as I said, RW pop isnt the same as the other campaigns.
Many veterans of ESO here, and most of them play slowly but surely and are decent fighters. You cant compare with random casual who play only weekend and who grow zergs who give hundreds of thousands AP to the decent players in greyhost

There's no zerg to bomb in RW, and even bombing is impossible in RW
There's no noob zerg to kill at a keep to get good AP deftic in RW.

RW isnt comparable.

And new life event just finished.

We used to have plenty of new and casual pvp players. In fact, it was the campaign to go to as it put everyone on an even playing field since CP was disabled. I feel like taking away procs took away a lot of these players, who probably don't want to be bothered with researching and theorycrafting a build with these extremely unclear rules. Once these restrictions were made permanent, I noticed a clear decline in the amount of new and casual pvpers. It's a population problem in this campaign, where the ecosystem of players was disrupted. As @Elendir2am said. I don't personally care much whether there's procs enabled or not, I care about the population of the campaign. It's my hope that reenabling procs would bring this campaign back to a healthier level.

CoachPower · January 2023

Xarc wrote: »

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

To give people some more metrics here to think about... The campaign in ravenwatch closes in 10 hours. After 30 days, there are only 36 people across the entire campaign who have scored more than 1 million AP. Compare that to Blackreach, where you need to have 2 million AP to even be within the top 100 players.

as I said, RW pop isnt the same as the other campaigns.
Many veterans of ESO here, and most of them play slowly but surely and are decent fighters. You cant compare with random casual who play only weekend and who grow zergs who give hundreds of thousands AP to the decent players in greyhost

There's no zerg to bomb in RW, and even bombing is impossible in RW
There's no noob zerg to kill at a keep to get good AP deftic in RW.

RW isnt comparable.

And new life event just finished.

Why is Queen Ayrenn so perfect? Before I log off I always go to her and watch for 30 minutes from all angles.

NordSwordnBoard · January 2023

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

We used to have plenty of new and casual pvp players. In fact, it was the campaign to go to as it put everyone on an even playing field since CP was disabled. I feel like taking away procs took away a lot of these players, who probably don't want to be bothered with researching and theorycrafting a build with these extremely unclear rules. Once these restrictions were made permanent, I noticed a clear decline in the amount of new and casual pvpers.

A point many veterans miss/forget - The best way to survive at first is safety in numbers. Some people figure survival out faster than others. IF a new player makes their own build, reality can be harsh and they can be driven back to where they feel more effective. If their proc set is making them feel effective, so be it.

Are there active guilds helping inexperienced players learn outside GH?
Will the game's guild finder promote these guilds over the more popular GH ones?
Under 50 campaign does not sound like its good for learning with the smurf factor, are new/under 50 players even going there?

IMO the guild finder system itself pushes the new/inexperienced into the main campaign. Mayhem cues support this, GH wait times can be extraordinary. The supposed learning environment is not conducive to learning because of the skill gap and lack of fellow noob support. Some new players are apprehensive about joining groups but want to surf the zerg for fun. Either way, strength in numbers is the main motivation for the majority of new/inexperienced players, and they seem willing to wait to get into a campaign they have no other investment in to achieve that.

TLDR: I feel an idealistic overlap between under 50 & no-CP/no Proc supposedly trying to better accommodate inexperienced players, and those inexperienced players are in GH anyway. So, what's the deal here?

blktauna · January 2023

On EU we do teaching runs in Ravenwatch. If we don't the sweats just tell each other where the trainees are and they steamroll to make themselves feels something.
Plainly not good for teaching. We liked NoCP only more because you could get people a decent build at a certain point and they could then merge into Blackreach or GH depending on how they felt about being faction locked.
Now since Ravenwatch is no proc, which of course ZOS has refused after repeated askings to say which sets actually work in it, You can't even teach folks how to build properly because of this.
Never go in the under 50, ever. Thats populated by people who live in there and like do emp runs and golded out lvl 45 gear. Not a place for beginners at all.

I have lots of pvp toons on all the factions so I tend to Blackreach and I drop my new toons in at lvl 15, but I'm familiar with it after all these years and it's not a problem for me. New to pvp people are not getting a fair shake on the teaching.