Please Don't Remove the Kothringi Race from High Isle's Amenos (They can be Justified)

Aliyavana · October 2022

On Live Servers, Kothringi can be seen on Amenos among the Green Serpent gang, however, as of PTS Patch Notes v8.2.3, they have removed the Kothringi from Amenos with the following notes:

Fixed some issues where Bretons could sometimes appear as Kothringi (silver skinned) across the game.

The Kothringi are said to be extinct, except when they are not (Some are still alive serving the Ideal Masters in the Soul Cairne, according to the Stillrise Ritecaller costume)

I was surprised when i saw this change, as they do wear Argonian style armor which indicated where they came from, as well as the recent inclusion of a Kothringi-themed costume in the recent crown crate season.

The Kothringi served as a good excuse to justify the asset reuse of Black Marsh assets such as Hackwings and Black Marsh plants (Scuttle Blooms, Static Pitcher, Lantern Mantis, etc) being on the Systres Archipelago. Perhaps they brought them there.

The story of the Crimson Ship can be used to justify the Kothringi being on Amenos. The ship carried the Kothringi infected with the Knahaten Flu sailed west into the Abecean (which could be towards High Isle and Amenos) after being rejected by every port. The Kothringi are known to be avid sailors, maybe despite Amenos being very far from home, reaching it was not out of place for their people.

Picture: Daggerfall Chronicles Page 7

One NPC notes seeing the ship recently (though the source is questionable), and when the ship disappeared it was only 20 years before ESO. Theres another source that says they died, but the source appears to be fiictional.

Picture: Green Serpent Archer on live servers

newtinmpls · October 2022

I like this idea!

CoolBlast3 · October 2022

I agree with this plenty. I've always hated how Kothringi (and the other Black Marsh races) went completely extinct in less than a decade just because of plot writing.
Kothringi especially were sailors and it's doubtful that all of them were in Black Marsh at the time of the plague, or that you wouldn't have some just lucky enough to not die from it. Having these random Kothringi in Amenos kept the door open for the race not being entirely extinct outside of fringe cases like the undead Stillrise.
It just feels like a waste for ZOS to do all this lovely Kothringi lore in recent times but then make it entirely pointless due to ancient TES lore. Who knows, if ZOS ever does an inner Black Marsh dlc, would love to see some surviving Kothringi or Lilmothit. Would just help keep it more believable if we slowly see these survivors around, idk.

TL:DR - I agree and would love to have this reverted :c

RaddlemanNumber7 · October 2022

It is sad that we're not getting anything more about the Kothringi. But, the Crimson Ship's fate has always been a mystery, and I guess that's the way they want it to stay.

Looking at the Ritecallers costume, it's strange that they would link the Kothringi in Stillrise to the Ideal Masters. The Stillrise village story involves Clavicus Vile, not the Ideal Masters.

Stranger still that there are so many new things in the game this year that relate to the Soul Cairn, and yet there is still no Soul Cairn. That saddens me far more.

Soarora · October 2022

The lore seems all over the place recently and it’s making me sad. I was confused reading the patch notes but I think you’re right, this should be reverted. It doesn’t look like an accident that they were not bretons originally and it makes sense that “extinct” races would be in places where no one can see them and live to tell the tale.

TheRimOfTheSky · October 2022

Agreed, Kothringi sailed quite literally everywhere, for a plague to wipe just them out that quickly is inaccurate. The 1st Pocket Guide where they were introduced even says they went extinct by Tiber septim's time (300 years in the future), not right after the flu.

The Ayleids quite similarly migrated to other provinces. They didn't go extinct right away, they interbred with local populations like the Bosmer until they were assimilated into it over a series of centuries. It's likely the same with the Kothringi

Legoless · October 2022

I thought the Kothringi banished were a feature, not a bug. Shouldn't have been removed in my opinion.

Rampeal · October 2022

That is the theme with Bethesda. They have all these cool races and just wouldn't you know? They are all extinct, live in a different land, or just plain don't appear in the game. Elder Scrolls is the first Post Apocalyptic fantasy game I ever played.

Lykeion · November 2022

Yes, this is very strange to me. I find it hard not to believe that they didn't remove many races that should have been added to the game to save work. How can Lilmoth be without Lilmothiit? How can a race disappear without a trace in such a short period of time, and leave almost no evidence of their existence?

TheRimOfTheSky · November 2022

Lykeion wrote: »

Yes, this is very strange to me. I find it hard not to believe that they didn't remove many races that should have been added to the game to save work. How can Lilmoth be without Lilmothiit? How can a race disappear without a trace in such a short period of time, and leave almost no evidence of their existence?

This exactly. They ignored Lilmothiit entirely, like how Blackrose Prison is supposed to be made of Lilmothiit ruins but looks Imperial in-game, because it would mean they would have to be creative and make new architecture; simple as that. Kothringi were also sidelined in Blackwood as Gideon is supposed to be their homeland but in-game its yet again boring Ayleid/Imperial architecture. It makes no sense considering the flu only showed up 15 years ago, they're not supposed to be all gone.

I wish they listened to fans and stopped sidelining these more interesting, obscure races that no other game has a chance to explore. The snow elves were a fan favorite in skyrim for example.