can someone explain to me this game

Rlacoste · October 2022

No matter my resistance, the incoming dmg in PVP is high. 30k ulti. 20k assassin's will etc...
30k resist, 5 heal buffs on my warden and I can't come close to doing 5k dmg before they burst me down I spend all my time clicking heals.

I don't pretend I understand this nerd stuff, I stopped reading on mechanics 1 yr after starting playing ESO, they change things so drastically and so often I can not keep up.

Wish there was a way to see if we were in sync with opponents. I swear I'm off kilter by at least 2 secs. I see a dizzy, I block, I'm dead. look at fight log and see I was hit by more then a dizzy lol
Ping is fine, pop is low, nothing to explin why I can't break free or defend.
I see tanks run around, think those are players who also gave up on PVPing.

Help this old geezer!

dmnqwk · October 2022

So, 30% resistances is about 50% damage reduction. Until you realise they have 16k penetration from gear, passives and major/minor breach - this means it's down to 25% (so you're taking 75% of the damage).

Assassin's Will can hit for 15-20k depending on buffs and whatnot. With 80% crit damage that 20k will become 36k, reduced by 25% because of your remaining armor to 27k. OUCHIES!

Of course in pvp it's closer to 12k, with 12*1.8/0.75 which is 16k approximately. (of course this is napkin maths, but should give you some idea of why you're dying horribly).

Thinking you can heal through damage in pvp wont help you - go on the offensive, stun them, line of sight, prevent them from acting if you want to live. Kill or be killed. (or just wear Mara's Balm)

Necrotech_Master · October 2022

there are tanks, but many of them are there purely to troll like 20 players at a time because they are so hard to kill

a common thing to help survivability is vampire undeath passive, and a lot of people probably have a good bit of penetration (or using balorgh monster set) combined with a lot of dmg from weapon enchants/potions

there could be many reasons for the high dmg numbers:

high penetration (some people build for like 15-20k penetration in pvp)
high weapon/spell dmg
in the case of assassins will incap strike still applies a debuff on you that makes you take +20% increased dmg for 6 sec, which further boosts dmg
additional buffs (rallying cry, or buffs from allies, it all adds up)

reasons why you might not do much dmg

vampire undeath, once they get under 50% hp they start getting additional mitigation (straight dmg reduction like major/minor protection or vamp undeath cannot be bypassed by penetration, you can "negate" some of them like protection with vulnerability debuff)
high dmg also gives high healing numbers
between dmg reductions and battle spirit you could be doing about -75% dmg of what your tooltip actually says (and you cant really practice getting around this well)

a good way to kind of test your build without being in cyro would be set up a target dummy in your house (one of the 6 mil hp ones preferably as they have 18k armor), and then have someone come to your house and duel you near the target dummy, then you can attack the dummy while under the effects of battle spirit to kind of measure your dmg (or the person you are dueling could let you try bursting them to see what dmg you could do while they are buffed up)

OBJnoob · October 2022

No offense to the OP but I think your problem is more than just needing build advice.

Yes lag happens sometimes and you check your recap and see things you didn't know had happened... Or worse, things you know couldn't have happened if things had been as you saw them. Let's not talk about those.

The build advice people are giving you is good, I'm not saying its not, but I think you may have a more fundamental problem.

You gotta keep moving. At all times. If you're outnumbered by players your own skill level (or greater,) and you're just standing there taking the beating you won't last long. Being more tanky won't honestly help a whole lot.

Just try to make better use of your core combat mechanics. When to block. When to roll. When to cast a spell to get rid of your snares and run somewhere. When to heavy attack.

It is hard to get off the backbar sometimes. Try rolling towards your opponent as a way to dodge attacks while barswapping to offense.

My offensive bar isn't only attacks either. Most combos take a few seconds to get going... And maybe longer to prepare. I like to have a strong heal on my front bar. I also normally put my snare removal there also... And perhaps even use a potion that grants immovability. You need to make sure your offense isn't interrupted before you can amass sufficient pressure to force them onto their backbar.

OlumoGarbag · October 2022

A little more information would be useful. Resistance alone doesent mean anything.
Did you play CP pvp?
Do you have them set right?
Do you have vamp stage 3?
Minor major protect?
Critical resistance?

You can have all that and still get hit by 10k ultis. If you don't have most of that you get hit way harder.

I would always recommend new PvP players to start in bgs below lvl 50. So you can learn the basics of PvP.

Rlacoste · October 2022

I didn't post stats/gear as I play many classes and builds. I went full defensive on my warden, Mara's, rallying Cry, Sea-serpant, Vamp 3, monster sets I've been changing from Balogrh to magma to mighty chudan.

If they cap resist to 32k and these players have nearly 30k pen these days with Balorgh, how we suppose to learn? lol

Can we stack resist to 42k? So when hit with major and minor breach I at least have a sec to respond?

Rallying cry takes care of crit resist....

Thanks for the target dummy recommendation, did not know we can activate battle cry that way.

All I can do is copy and paste builds from creators and try to undrstand from there.

Necrotech_Master · October 2022

Rlacoste wrote: »

I didn't post stats/gear as I play many classes and builds. I went full defensive on my warden, Mara's, rallying Cry, Sea-serpant, Vamp 3, monster sets I've been changing from Balogrh to magma to mighty chudan.

If they cap resist to 32k and these players have nearly 30k pen these days with Balorgh, how we suppose to learn? lol

Can we stack resist to 42k? So when hit with major and minor breach I at least have a sec to respond?

Rallying cry takes care of crit resist....

Thanks for the target dummy recommendation, did not know we can activate battle cry that way.

All I can do is copy and paste builds from creators and try to undrstand from there.

resistance is one of those things thats "soft capped" like penetration, you can certainly build more than 33k resist (and some people do for pvp) so they can ignore the debuffs while still having armor cap

you just have to know that everything above 33k on armor will basically "useless" outside of being a cushion for debuffs

DMuehlhausen · October 2022

Rlacoste wrote: »

No matter my resistance, the incoming dmg in PVP is high. 30k ulti. 20k assassin's will etc...
30k resist, 5 heal buffs on my warden and I can't come close to doing 5k dmg before they burst me down I spend all my time clicking heals.

I don't pretend I understand this nerd stuff, I stopped reading on mechanics 1 yr after starting playing ESO, they change things so drastically and so often I can not keep up.

Wish there was a way to see if we were in sync with opponents. I swear I'm off kilter by at least 2 secs. I see a dizzy, I block, I'm dead. look at fight log and see I was hit by more then a dizzy lol
Ping is fine, pop is low, nothing to explin why I can't break free or defend.
I see tanks run around, think those are players who also gave up on PVPing.

Help this old geezer!

It's far simplier than the people trying to show the math is.

You CAN NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT MATHMEMATICALLY POSSIBLE, able to balance PvE and PvP. All the skills and gear are designed around groups of 12 killing bosses with 100s of millions of health at times. You can't just throw some % on their and make it balanced going against players with 50k hp. It's not possible, every other game that has tried has failed (when PvE is the main focus of the game)

The only way they can make it balanced would be to have items and skills that are only available in PvP/Battlegrounds and based that damage around enemies having like 30-50k HP that's it any other explanation or idea is just wrong and has failed in every other game / scenario it was ever tried in.

Dangranma_Burgrukgad · October 2022

Rlacoste wrote: »

Help this old geezer!

If you are on PC first thing you wanna do is to install Combat Metrics addon, then go into setting and enable it to stream incoming/outgoing damage on a separate chat window.
Every time you take/do damage it will add a row with timestamp, name of the skill, amount of damage and also if it was a crit and if the skill hit a block
This will give you some good info to check when you die to try undestand better what happened.

Rlacoste · October 2022

I do have combat metrics. I review every death to see what on earht hit me when I can;t even see it lol

I die in mysterious ways a lot. Ex. this today, i have 42k HP on this build, I was riding to to retake a rss and before I reached flag I saw the red circle target at me feet, Scavenger;s, I dismounted, was dead. HUH?

I check combat metrics and find

but butbut I died before seeing anything and log shows 17k damage. This kinda stuff I'll never understand, Visual for oils missing a lot, CC break RNG not on my side vs NBs and talons(less so)

So if I boost my resist to say 42k, I'll be gimping myself in damage or mitigation?

Vulkunne · October 2022

I'm not sure what to tell you. We had a similar discussion in PvP the other day about Occult Overload and VD. My main is a strong DK but what I've discovered is that unfort no matter how strong I build him it doesn't matter.

As others have stated, ZOS has flung the barn door wide open on ways for lousy, lazy, generic and poorly conceived builds to produce enormous amounts of damage.

But I ask them why reward people for not trying and then you have effectively nullified the leverage from those of us who put lots of time and energy into creating taller builds? I'm never in favor of rewarding people who don't work hard or think critically to design something.

I'm also really REALLY sick and tired of being flogged for other people's lack of caring, with my DK taking sometimes 12.8k, 25.6k or even over 32.5k+ worth of damage from things like Occult Overload because someone else from my 'team' didn't care and came to Cyrodiil with no thought into health or mitigation to speak of.

I have 18k Hp and 12k mitigation welp time to head off to Cyrodiil. My Team needs me.

ZOS_Icy · October 2022

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

geonsocal · October 2022

howdy old geezer...fellow old geezer here

you mentioned gear and abilities regarding your defense...that's not it man...i mean it's a little bit it, a little bit...

surviving is staying out of bad spots, being mobile, roll dodging and blocking...

helps to have a dependable heal too, but, yeah...gotta learn to fight...best way to do that is slow down, relax, find some endless fights, like an outpost...

wardens are generally pretty hard to kill, especially mag wardens...dual wield stam wardens have a really simple execute...

so, you need to work a bit on your survivability and execute rotations, how's your sustain?

geonsocal · October 2022

Theignson · October 2022

Rlacoste wrote: »

I do have combat metrics. I review every death to see what on earht hit me when I can;t even see it lol

I die in mysterious ways a lot. Ex. this today, i have 42k HP on this build, I was riding to to retake a rss and before I reached flag I saw the red circle target at me feet, Scavenger;s, I dismounted, was dead. HUH?

I check combat metrics and find

but butbut I died before seeing anything and log shows 17k damage. This kinda stuff I'll never understand, Visual for oils missing a lot, CC break RNG not on my side vs NBs and talons(less so)

So if I boost my resist to say 42k, I'll be gimping myself in damage or mitigation?

If you saw scavenger, this is probably the oakensoul gank build with swampraider and scavenging demise. The key here is the scavenging demise hits ridiculously hard, it is way OP. So if you see that scavenger, you have to either dodge roll or be moving or they will kill you.
I've noticed if you die fast CM does not always show all or any of the damage for some reason.
If you want to survive, your build is good but I would take off sea coil. The problem with it is it snares you and that makes you easier to kill. The compensation for this is you get increased damage, but if your problem is surviving, you need mobility more.
The other thing is dont use your netch with Maras. If you do, you wont get the burst heal.
If you put on, eg Zoal instead and Markyn's ring, get rid of sea coil you should be pretty hard to kill.
But you can never stand still, you have to avoid the teams of trolls that like to 4v1 or 12 v1 people, you have to utilize block/dodge roll etc judiciously

Udrath · October 2022

Run all swift, have major expedition, use sprint more often. It’s easier to avoid melee damage if they can’t hit you. Speed > tanky stats for certain classes IMO

Rowjoh · November 2022

Learning and improving at PVP takes practice, practice and more practice. And time.

Reseach PVP principles, do's and don'ts, skill rotations according to your class and build etc, then pick one or two points and duel/go to Cyrodiil with friends or guild mates to practice them: movement, line of sight, dodge rolling, blocking, decision making, timing etc.

Once you are comfortable, pick another couple of points to work on and repeat.

Go to Cyrodiil/battlegrounds, join a group etc to practice some more. When you're in a group always ask questions/ask for advice. Eventually you'll build up a picture and a plan of exactly what you want to focus on vs your playstyle, then its onwards and upwards from there.

Also learning other classes offensive and defensive abilities/skills and recognising the animations/telegraphs is very important.

I recommend writing things down and making notes. There's way too much to remember and having reference points saves time and makes learning much easier.

Don't get too hung up on your build and stats. You can tinker and adjust that once you reach the level you want to reach - you'll know when that is if you structure your practice and are dedicated