Is Zenimax Aware of the Vampire Ulitmate spamming cheese-mode?

rophez_ESO · April 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyZsIDSSGV4

Lots of threads on it over in the Alliance War tactics forum, but no official response. Is this working as intended? No wonder everyone is trying to be a vampire...

Maverick827 · April 2014

Who knows? They barely post, and when they do, it's only a generic response. Supposedly they're working on a new forum that will make it easier for them to respond, but I don't think they can afford to keep this radio silence up until that time.

I can talk with devs about games years off on many other game forums, but it seems impossible to get any information about this live game.

Jaxom · April 2014

I think we need more posts. The other 32 of them in this exact sub forum certainly isnt enough.....

Brittany_Joy · April 2014

Dodge is an amazing ability. With dodge I can avoid most of the damage and get out of Roots. CC break is awesome too because I can break out of any CC to get away from an enemy trying to nuke me down. Looking at the video I see no one dodging or using CC break... or even block.

I have a question, are you an Emperor?

pecheckler · April 2014

Believe it or not duplicate forum threads do help bring attention to issues. Obviously Zenimax isn't aware, otherwise they would have acknowledged the problem. It took them an entire week to acknowledge the bank bug, three weeks to acknowledge a dupe exploit, a and month to add in-game GMs to target bots. How long do you think it will take them to fix this extreme PvP abuse? Another two months? That'd be my guess.

I for one do not intend to participate in PvP until this is fixed unless it is part of a very well organized guild effort. And sadly I can say that when we (the guild) encounter players abusing this we will all back off and wait for them to kill off the individual/new/not listening/pug/solo players who remain in melee range, and only engage after they are dead.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

^^ that was my thinking too.

zyntex · May 2014

I don't see any pvp abuse.

I just see a good, VR10 player who owns the people constantly running into that small room and trying to single kill him instead of luring him out of the building and killing him all together.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

Lol "good" player? He's spamming two buttons and his right mouse click. Awesome skills! He didn't need special skill to do what he's doing - the set piece is common to reduce ultimate cost, and the stamina/magicka/health heals he's getting are automatic with each push of his ultimate button. So he spams root and ultimate and slaps his shield around spastically. Great player.

eliisra · May 2014

zyntex wrote: »

I don't see any pvp abuse.

I just see a good, VR10 player who owns the people constantly running into that small room and trying to single kill him instead of luring him out of the building and killing him all together.

Do you think ultimate skills are meant to be spammable like any other skill?

Do you believe a gaming developer would intentionally design such a thing, thinking it's nicely balanced?

Have you ever played an MMORPG where your most powerful skill was ready to fire of every 3 second?

I haven't. Big skills have a long cool-down. In ESO that is replaced by builders, once enough you can use your ultimate. People found a workaround, it's not very surprising. There is always design flaws when games are new, allowing players to gain infinite exp, gold or in this case ultimate reduction.

If it was hard to achieve at least... But you only need a vamp bite, pieces of the armour sets required. It's not some legendary uber gear, works with green trash as long as it has the set bonus. You dont need vet10, you dont need to be Emperor or former. Anyone vet player can do it.

What's non excusable here is Zeni is doing nothing. Not even communicating with concerned customers.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

Eliisra, I agree that Zenimax needs to communicate with us about this. I'd like to know what their stance is. Is this getting adjusted? Is it NOT? If not, I guess I need to join the vampire legion, because it's impossible to compete on the leader boards with people who can solo 30 (or 100+ as I saw in one video) enemies per combat.

zyntex · May 2014

If you would know the game you would also know how to deal with such players.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

zyntex wrote: »

If you would know the game you would also know how to deal with such players.

I've seen all the arguments. Go ahead and post your strategy, and I'll tell you how a vamp-sploiter will get around it.

ZiRM · May 2014

Of course they are aware of it, will they do anything about it? That's the question...

Ciedoc · May 2014

A lot of the problems in PvP is people not knowing how to play. Oh gee there is a vamp that excels at close range combat lets all run into close range and pwn it /facepalm

No matter how many times rock fights paper, rock always thinks it can win.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

Ciedoc wrote: »

A lot of the problems in PvP is people not knowing how to play. Oh gee there is a vamp that excels at close range combat lets all run into close range and pwn it /facepalm

No matter how many times rock fights paper, rock always thinks it can win.

You are either a vamp that doesn't want to get nerfed, or you've never experienced this before.

Vamps, like any class get gap closers and speed buffs. On top of that, they have unlimited resources from various synergies working, I hope, in an unintended fashion. For instance, DK vamps can get huge percentages of magicka, health, and stamina refilled each time they hit their ultimate; they can spam the ultimate because the cost is like 30, and it comes back as they block/damage enemies. Having unlimited resources allows unlimited gap closers, unlimited spell reflects, etc. If you don't PVP against decent vamp-sploiters, at least watch some videos before you say silly things like the above statement.

Ciedoc · May 2014

Vamps get gap closers not from the vamp line but other lines. I do PvP. I have fought vamps (not one) and I have learned to stay ranged. If a vamp keeps chasing me I keep running. The AoE nerf is going to help quite a bit in terms of number of people ultimates can hit which will limit how much ultimate the vamp can reclaim. People are demanding major line changes because they are too stupid to figure out how to fight a vamp. The upcoming AoE nerf should deal with vamps enough to control all the QQing only to those players that need to learn how to play. As I said...no matter how many times rock fights paper, rock always thinks it can win. Meanwhile scissor is sitting back laughing its arse off.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

Ciedoc wrote: »

Vamps get gap closers not from the vamp line but other lines. I do PvP. I have fought vamps (not one) and I have learned to stay ranged. If a vamp keeps chasing me I keep running. The AoE nerf is going to help quite a bit in terms of number of people ultimates can hit which will limit how much ultimate the vamp can reclaim. People are demanding major line changes because they are too stupid to figure out how to fight a vamp. The upcoming AoE nerf should deal with vamps enough to control all the QQing only to those players that need to learn how to play. As I said...no matter how many times rock fights paper, rock always thinks it can win. Meanwhile scissor is sitting back laughing its arse off.

Thank you for confirming that you don't know what you're talking about. Of course vamps get gap closers from other skill lines (also don't forget mist form!) the issue is that spamming the ultimate as a DK allows for unlimited use of all abilities, gap closers and roots included. The vamp ultimate is already capped at 6. It still allows Sorc and DK (at least) vamps to become invulnerable. Keep trying to defend this, but anyone who has witnessed the full ultimate spamming cheese mode would never defend it, unless they too desired to run that build. Bad news - if ZOS does acknowledge that this is working as intended, the only people left in Cyrodiil are going to be running these builds, so you won't be god mode anymore, anyway - just playing Twilight Online.

Ciedoc · May 2014

Then as shocking as it may sound...good. Hopefully it will run off the people that are trying to change the game for 1v1 PvP. Soap box time: PvP elite like to come into games, find power builds, abuse them until all the whiners get several classes nerfed not only in PvP but in PvE as well (The main issue behind my soap box) and then leave the game they broke running off many more people because of the changes that often destroy PvE play caused by the PvP elite who found this shiny new object and are soon distracted by the next shiny new object (say wildstar).

The AoE change will have an effect. Let it happen and re-evaluate instead of calling for a lynch mob to destroy DK and Sorcs just because many people can not adjust their play to the situation. Every rock has a paper. Every paper has a scissor.

rophez_ESO · May 2014

Fix has been confirmed as incoming:

Thanks Nick Konkle at the Reddit AMA:

I'm guessing this is actually about the "Vampire" ultimate cheese, in which case, yes. I'll re-post what my response to a different thread.
Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
Reduced the movement speed bonus during mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage
And we'll continue to monitor the situation after these changes go live.

indigoblades · May 2014

i have seen lots of post from non vampires who dont understand the minus's of being a vampire (fighters guild weakness, poor health regin, fire resistance and dependance upon finding huminiods to feed) about vampire being over powered in PVP. Some is based on emperor (emperess) vampires videos on Youtube appearing invincible. Lots of that video invoked other factors than Over powered vampire skills (1. she was emperiss too with emperor perks, 2. the people trying to kill her had no understanding of how to kill a vamp, could have been killed easily with 5 or 10 people who stayed out of bat form range. 3. there have been similar over powered situations with non vampire DK emperors, no ones talking about nerfing DK. I have to say PLEASE dont NERF the vampire abiltities in ESO. In both Oblivion and in Skyrim Vampires were very powerful in certain niches just like in ESO, they also had weaknesses just like eso. Alot of people play only to be vampire (ME). I dont think vampires are any bit more pvp powerful than KnightBlades or Dragonnights. Also even if i lose matched set of armor & all three jewelry slots to offset my weak health regin/fire resistance.... any one with fighters guild skills can take me out easy since i am weak too undead spells.

Also as for nerfing emporors, i dont care either way ...ill prolly never be one so if its nerfed it wont effect my game. On the other hand it doesnt bother one small bit if the emperor is GOD LIKE, seems really neat the emperor is all powerful ... there is only one emperor on the battlefield so people should deal with it... in chess the queen is god like too.

PLEASE dont nerf the vampire skill tree. (Rumor is u are gonna nerf it with the Craighorn release) we all ready have to lose three slots to various enchantments for our health & fire weakness and even with that vamps are fragile if u know how to attack em (fighters guild & stay out of melee range ... our health regin is weak). thats tactics and makes the game more fun i think.

ArgonianAssassin · May 2014

Yeah don't worry about it, ZoS is nerfing all vampire abilities TO THE GROUND! Instead of taking a look at the real problem which stems from ulti spam which is still possible with DK/Sorc + Ulti reduction sets, just like it is right now, and I still haven't seen anything about fixing our broken passives.

ArgonianAssassin · May 2014

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

i have seen lots of post from non vampires who dont understand the minus's of being a vampire (fighters guild weakness, poor health regin, fire resistance and dependance upon finding huminiods to feed) about vampire being over powered in PVP. Some is based on emperor (emperess) vampires videos on Youtube appearing invincible. Lots of that video invoked other factors than Over powered vampire skills (1. she was emperiss too with emperor perks, 2. the people trying to kill her had no understanding of how to kill a vamp, could have been killed easily with 5 or 10 people who stayed out of bat form range. 3. there have been similar over powered situations with non vampire DK emperors, no ones talking about nerfing DK. I have to say PLEASE dont NERF the vampire abiltities in ESO. In both Oblivion and in Skyrim Vampires were very powerful in certain niches just like in ESO, they also had weaknesses just like eso. Alot of people play only to be vampire (ME). I dont think vampires are any bit more pvp powerful than KnightBlades or Dragonnights. Also even if i lose matched set of armor & all three jewelry slots to offset my weak health regin/fire resistance.... any one with fighters guild skills can take me out easy since i am weak too undead spells.

Also as for nerfing emporors, i dont care either way ...ill prolly never be one so if its nerfed it wont effect my game. On the other hand it doesnt bother one small bit if the emperor is GOD LIKE, seems really neat the emperor is all powerful ... there is only one emperor on the battlefield so people should deal with it... in chess the queen is god like too.

PLEASE dont nerf the vampire skill tree. (Rumor is u are gonna nerf it with the Craighorn release) we all ready have to lose three slots to various enchantments for our health & fire weakness and even with that vamps are fragile if u know how to attack em (fighters guild & stay out of melee range ... our health regin is weak). thats tactics and makes the game more fun i think.

It's not a rumour, it was confirmed on the reddit sub forum, vampirism had it's ability cost reduce down to 7% per stage down from 20% effectively making vampires walking target dummies. High Cost on relatively useless and very situational abilities, nerfed Elusive Mist to be worse than both Sorc abilities, no word on fixing vampire passives, but we're being nerfed anyways, 75% reduced health regen in and out of combat, 50% reduced fire rests(Woo getting one shot, and now trying to keep myself alive with drain essence is going to run my magicka dry!) Instead of looking at the actual problem which are ulti cost reduction sets, sorc and dk ulti cost reduction passives, ultimates can still be spammed by the same classes doing it right now, but no, let's ignore all that and just focus on already super weak and broken vampires. What are awesome plus sides of being a vampire again? Mistform that takes 75% reduced damage but no healing at all, so I can become near-invincible for 3 seconds before I drop dead? Cool. What was a good self heal now has a ridiculous cost, can only be used once and can't be used on bosses at all. Why would anyone want that now? All our passives are still broken Devouring swarm has gone up from a cost of 80 to 158 down from 200, that's pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.