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Champion Points - Deadly Aim or Weapons Expert

BMedussa8
BMedussa8
Hello, so I'm not entirely new, but still learning. Regarding slottables in champion points, specifically the warfare tree/constellation. Deadly Aim is a major constellation that offers when slotted to increase your damage done with single target attacks by 3% per stage - there are two stages or the ability to slot up to 6% more damage.

Hidden in the grouped constellation titled Extended Might" of the same Warfare tree is the "Weapons Expert" minor constellation that when slotted increases your damage done with Light and Heavy Attacks by 3% per stage - there are 5 stages or the possibility to slot 15% additional damage.

A good many advertised builds slot Deadly Aim more than Weapons Expert and I'm just wondering why, when Weapons Expert provides 15% damage while Deadly Aim only provides for 6% damage. I understand that in previous CP versions that there was a "physical weapons expert" and that maybe back then it only applied to melee weapons and not like magic based weapons (staffs). I also understand that the physical weapons expert went away and that with the 2.0 version it has come back now in this new "Weapons Expert" slottable. But unlike before, it makes no reference to physical weapons or weapons that cause bleed or poison or bash damage.....so could the "Weapons Expert" slottable be used as a good attribute for a mage?
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Weapons expert only affects light and heavy attacks

    Deadly aim increases all damage done by any direct damage attack.

    The only time you might slot Weapons Expert is if you're doing an empower heavy attack build or maybe a light attack werewolf build.
    Edited by Tannus15 on 2 September 2022 03:31
  • K9002
    K9002
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    Weapons Expert was buffed to 20%.
  • BMedussa8
    BMedussa8
    Okay, thank you Tannus15 and K9002.

    Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly, but with light and heavy attack weaving along with casting abilities - and since fire, frost and shock damage with staves is considered direct damage, wouldn't light and heavy attack weaving (probably 50% of your rotation) with 15% damage under Weapons Expert on all targets be better than Deadly Aim's increase of 6% damage on direct damage attacks on just a single target?

    I guess maybe it would depend on the player and what they are casting in their rotation and how heavily they rely on light and heavy attacks maybe? And of course that kinda leads back to your explanation Tannus......

    Ideally, I'd rather slot both, but obviously that might not be prudent with other slottables needed.
  • dmnqwk
    dmnqwk
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    Okay, so looking at a random Stamden parse we see...

    Single Target damage makes up 58.1% of the total damage
    Direct damage makes up 57.5% of the damage
    DoT damage is worth 42.1% of it
    AoE damage is worth 41.8%
    Light Attacks constitute 9.4%

    Taking this into account then the nodes would mean:
    Single Target 6% is worth 3.486%
    Direct damage 6% is worth 3.45%
    DoT damage 6% is worth 2.526%
    AoE damage 6% is worth 2.508%
    Light Attacks 15% (old value) is worth 1.41%
    Light attacks 20% (new value) is worth 1.88%

    Note the nodes used in the parse were Exploiter, Wrathful Strikes, Man at Arms and Biting Aura so the data is fairly rough in terms of true comparisons. I put the raw data below because there's no way I am 100% correct on the labels applicable to each item and so people need something to nitpick (or, as it could be, a major shift on what each node affects that changes everything):

    Silver shards 10% single, direct
    Light Attack 6.5% single, direct
    Relequen 6.3% set bonus single, dot
    Nirn 5.9% set bonus aoe, dot
    Deep Fissure 5.8% direct, aoe
    Kjalnar 5.5% set bonus single, direct
    Bear 4.3% single, direct
    Deep Fissure 4.2% direct, aoe
    Bleed 4.2% single, dot
    Bear AoE 3.8% direct, aoe
    Bear 3.8% single, direct
    Caltrops 3.8% aoe, dot
    Cloak 3.7% aoe, dot
    Stampede 3.7% aoe, dot
    Infection 3.6% single, dot
    Carve 2.8% aoe, dot
    Light Attack 2.8% single, direct
    Cliff Racer 2.5% single, direct
    Burning 2.3% single, dot
    Poison 2.2% single, dot
    Shadow Silk 2.2% aoe, dot
    Shadow Silk 2.0% aoe, direct
    Stampede 1.6% (direct) aoe, direct
    Barbed Trap 1.4% single, dot
    Nirn 1.3% (direct) set bonus direct aoe
    Carve 1.0% (direct) direct, aoe
    Barbed Trap 0.8% (direct) single, direct
    Poison weapon 0.7% single, direct
    Fiery WEapon 0.6% single, direct
    Sundered 0.6% single, direct
    Overcharged 0.3% single, direct
  • BMedussa8
    BMedussa8
    Hello dmnqwk and thanks for all of that information I appreciate the input. I think I disclosed earlier that I"m a bit of a noob, haven't parsed much. I guess there you can really see where Deadly Aim would be much more a fit for that Stamden. If I'm reading correctly, I see no heavy attack damage...does that mean that on that Stamden parse that no heavy attack weaving was done - only light attacks? (again, I'm a noob so be gentle)

    These parse stats appear once you have finished on a dummy, right? So maybe I should just play around a little with that on my builds and with the slottables to see for myself....but I'm thinking that if I'm not relying solely on light and heavy attacks that the Deadly Aim would probably calculate to more damage (than Weapons Expert). Although in a battle application unlike a parse dummy, you're attacking multiple targets and mobs until you get down to the boss and even then there are multiple adds in waves that would change the damage output. So is a parse dummy really the litmus test?

    I guess I should have predicated this that I'm asking from a PVE and not a PVP standpoint....for Overland, World Bosses and Dungeons....solo and small group.
  • dmnqwk
    dmnqwk
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    BMedussa8 wrote: »
    Hello dmnqwk and thanks for all of that information I appreciate the input. I think I disclosed earlier that I"m a bit of a noob, haven't parsed much. I guess there you can really see where Deadly Aim would be much more a fit for that Stamden. If I'm reading correctly, I see no heavy attack damage...does that mean that on that Stamden parse that no heavy attack weaving was done - only light attacks? (again, I'm a noob so be gentle)

    These parse stats appear once you have finished on a dummy, right? So maybe I should just play around a little with that on my builds and with the slottables to see for myself....but I'm thinking that if I'm not relying solely on light and heavy attacks that the Deadly Aim would probably calculate to more damage (than Weapons Expert). Although in a battle application unlike a parse dummy, you're attacking multiple targets and mobs until you get down to the boss and even then there are multiple adds in waves that would change the damage output. So is a parse dummy really the litmus test?

    I guess I should have predicated this that I'm asking from a PVE and not a PVP standpoint....for Overland, World Bosses and Dungeons....solo and small group.

    Parses are essentially people trying to do as much damage as they can to an inanimate object with every buff in the game, no requirement to move or perform mechanics and a bar filled with extra dots compared to a normal setup. Because of this, parses are always going to be slightly different to how you'll operate in 'the real world' but give you a generally idea of how well you can perform.

    Having said that, it's unlikely you're going to change those percentages significantly just because you're in a different kind of fight (like you wouldn't do 20% light attacks just because the fight has a lot of target switching) and so they're a good indication of which nodes to consider.

    Based off the data if you are making a normal build (normal builds use light attacks right before every skill use) you'll never want to consider the weapons expert node ever because it's simply not going to perform anywhere near the others.
    If you make a heavy attack build, then against a node worth 50% of your damage (making the node worth 3%) you'll need to hit 15% or higher of total damage being heavy attacks. If you're up against a node worth only 40% (making it 2%) then you start to need only a 10% light attack for it to get worthwhile.

    Don't forget that while we're mentioning these % nodes you have to consider also:
    Fighting Finesse is 8% crit damage
    Wrathful Strikes is 205 weapon damage
    Exploiter is 10% damage vs Off-balance foes (off-balance has a max uptime of 7/22 seconds meaning maximum of 3.18%)
    Force of Nature (660 pen per status debuff on them)

    So it can be quite difficult, only to then realise that the difference between most of these nodes is like 1% total damage and meaningless against ensuring your rotation is smooth hehe.
  • haelgaan
    haelgaan
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    dmnqwk wrote: »

    Taking this into account then the nodes would mean:
    Single Target 6% is worth 3.486%
    Direct damage 6% is worth 3.45%
    DoT damage 6% is worth 2.526%
    AoE damage 6% is worth 2.508%

    Note the nodes used in the parse were Exploiter, Wrathful Strikes, Man at Arms and Biting Aura

    i love digging in to the data like this. question - given that single target damage in this parse is higher than aoe, wouldn't you be able to up it slightly if you flipped from Biting Aura to Deadly Aim?
  • dmnqwk
    dmnqwk
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    haelgaan wrote: »
    dmnqwk wrote: »

    Taking this into account then the nodes would mean:
    Single Target 6% is worth 3.486%
    Direct damage 6% is worth 3.45%
    DoT damage 6% is worth 2.526%
    AoE damage 6% is worth 2.508%

    Note the nodes used in the parse were Exploiter, Wrathful Strikes, Man at Arms and Biting Aura

    i love digging in to the data like this. question - given that single target damage in this parse is higher than aoe, wouldn't you be able to up it slightly if you flipped from Biting Aura to Deadly Aim?

    It's not my parse.
    I didn't wanna log into the game and retrieve my own parse, where I run Wrathful Strikes, Fighting Finesse, Man at Arms and Deadly Aim it's just a parse I stole from youtube (I would credit them if I didn't think the TOS prevented it) because my computer is old and slow and it would've taken 5-10 minutes longer.

    But yes, I think you would haha. (unless, as I said in the disclaimer bit, there's some incongruities in my assigned tags as to how the damage totals are calculated, like if haemo's dot didn't actually get buffed by the dot damage node for some reason)
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