Why did ZOS remove the stun from Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon?
ioResult
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Sorcs can Streak, Templars have Javelin, DKs have Fossilize, Wardens have Arctic Blast, Necros have Grave Grasp morphs. Why are Nightblades now the ONLY class without a guaranteed stun in their class toolkit? This is completely out of balance that Nightblades can only stun from stealth now. Can someone from ZOS explain how this makes any sense at all?
Please ZOS give Nightblades their stun back.
Please ZOS give Nightblades their stun back.
But yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
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auz✭✭✭✭Sorcs can Streak, Templars have Javelin, DKs have Fossilize, Wardens have Arctic Blast, Necros have Grave Grasp morphs. Why are Nightblades now the ONLY class without a guaranteed stun in their class toolkit? This is completely out of balance that Nightblades can only stun from stealth now. Can someone from ZOS explain how this makes any sense at all?
Please ZOS give Nightblades their stun back.
Mass hysteria0 -
ioResult✭✭✭✭If ZOS want Nightblades to use Mass Hysteria then make one of the morphs single target that also does damage, just like Fossilize, Streak and Javelin ALL do damage in addition to their CC effect.But yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS want Nightblades to use Mass Hysteria then make one of the morphs single target that also does damage, just like Fossilize, Streak and Javelin ALL do damage in addition to their CC effect.
I mean... Mass Hysteria has close to the same range as Fossilize, goes through block, and since it's AoE also goes through dodge roll.
It's literally just an AoE Petrify without the heal or immobilization depending on the morph you go with, and it's rare that the damage from those other stuns actually contributes to a successful kill. They're pretty weak sources of damage that barely register alongside the sources of burst you've stacked.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS want Nightblades to use Mass Hysteria then make one of the morphs single target that also does damage, just like Fossilize, Streak and Javelin ALL do damage in addition to their CC effect.
It's pretty difficult to get a kill on a good player with the stuns you're claiming are so powerful. Streak is great, don't get me wrong, but it usually gives people an escape rather than securing a kill unless paired with something more substantial like an ult or delayed burst on the squishies. It does about half the damage of a typical spammable.
In direct comparison to Veiled Strike morphs, Streak does 60% of the tooltip.
Most kills on good players come from Dawny/Meteor + delayed burst combo's for Sorcs, to which NB also has a cheap and powerful ult stun at their disposal via Incap.
Maybe a NB stun should get some damage in the future, but trust, it's not going to make or break your potential at this point and it's certainly not going to be very powerful. We're talking like a 4-5k tooltip on average. Incap, Veiled Strike, and Mercilous are some of the strongest skills in the game, so maybe that is the idea behind NB's burst?
Frankly, I think a bigger issue a NB brought up on the PTS was how the NB's burst is attached to easy to dodge single target attacks, cast times and minimum projectile travel times which make securing kills very difficult. Adding a little 2.5k damage to your burst window isn't going to fix that.Edited by MashmalloMan on 22 August 2022 23:280 -
Zeromaz✭✭✭✭If ZOS want Nightblades to use Mass Hysteria then make one of the morphs single target that also does damage, just like Fossilize, Streak and Javelin ALL do damage in addition to their CC effect.
I mean... Mass Hysteria has close to the same range as Fossilize, goes through block, and since it's AoE also goes through dodge roll.
It's literally just an AoE Petrify without the heal or immobilization depending on the morph you go with, and it's rare that the damage from those other stuns actually contributes to a successful kill. They're pretty weak sources of damage that barely register alongside the sources of burst you've stacked.
The problem with Mass Hysteria is latency doesn’t play nice with it. It misses so often even after you Ambush on top of the target and cast MH directly after. Ambush also feels weird with it going through the animation and not actually firing off.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't know why ZOS removed the stun, but it's a double-edged sword. ZOS wanting people to use Mass Hysteria again is a good guess, except they forgot why that skill fell out of favor, namely the 400ms delay they introduced on nightblade's hard hitting abilities, their ulimates and Assassin's Will / Scourge. That delay has meant people could break free and dodge roll the big hits all too often. Nothing has changed. I don't see Mass Hysteria making a comeback among top players, because the timing issue is still the same. For simply getting people off your back there is also Zoal, if you so choose.
The stun on Surprise Attack / Concealed made nightblades easier to play for beginning melee players. It coincided with a hard-hitting spammable and possibly a Caluurion proc. That was as good for ganking as it was for zerging people down. Spamming Surprise Attack / Concealed in an Xv1 was a nasty and straightforward way to bring down the 1vXer. Well, both of those things are gone.
In the case of the stun, this is one of those inscrutable decisions in light of ZOS' stated goals. The removal of that stun is only a nerf to beginning players. It's a buff to experienced players, at least in lag free environments. It increases the skill gap. Why is that? Because Surprise Attack / Concealed still sets the target off balance. An off balance target can subsequently be stunned with a medium or heavy attack. It's not an instant stun that facilitates ganking - for that you still have Incap Strike. It's a more controlled stun, though. You decide when it happens and, importantly, a (partial) heavy attack doesn't have the timing issues that Mass Hysteria has. In other words, you can use a partial heavy into Assassin's Will / Scourge and possibly an execute, before the target has a chance to break free. You can also incorporate burst from the Vateshran 2H weapon into that combo. This is complicated. Not beginner-friendly. You need to be in a duelling situation long enough - possibly after a failed gank - to get Assassin's Will / Scourge and optionally the Vateshran proc ready, or you need to be in a fluid brawl, where you're moving from target to target and may pull off that combo on someone else.0
