Nocturnal's Ploy and Oakensoul

OnGodiDoDis · August 2022

Does anyone else find it very interesting that the best way to not have our buffs removed by Nocturnal's is to buy the DLC to use Oakensoul? Does that not seem disgusting to anyone else? Since when is a set the only answer to countering another set? What direction is PvP heading?

Holycannoli · August 2022

Wait until Mara's Balm. I too thought Nocturnal's Ploy was the worst and didn't pay Mara's Balm any attention.

geonsocal · August 2022

Holycannoli wrote: »

Wait until Mara's Balm. I too thought Nocturnal's Ploy was the worst and didn't pay Mara's Balm any attention.

the plaguebreak folks will certainly enjoy mara's balm auto-purge...
Mara's Balm
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

i keep forgetting what nocturnal's ploy does:
Nocturnal's Ploy
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you directly apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you directly apply a Minor Debuff, remove a Minor Buff from the target. These effects can both occur once every 15 seconds and a target can be affected once every 15 seconds. This does not apply to abilities with delays.

neither really concern me too much...

Necrotech_Master · August 2022

geonsocal wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Wait until Mara's Balm. I too thought Nocturnal's Ploy was the worst and didn't pay Mara's Balm any attention.

the plaguebreak folks will certainly enjoy mara's balm auto-purge...
Mara's Balm
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

i keep forgetting what nocturnal's ploy does:
Nocturnal's Ploy
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you directly apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you directly apply a Minor Debuff, remove a Minor Buff from the target. These effects can both occur once every 15 seconds and a target can be affected once every 15 seconds. This does not apply to abilities with delays.

neither really concern me too much...

the problem with plague is it now gives that person immunity to plague for 20 sec (10 sec min if its not purged, 19-20 sec max if its purged immediately)

and with the mara healing being no cooldown every attack that hits you that applies any negative effects will effectively heal you for every cast they do

the issue most have with nocturnal is that say in a 1v1, it wont do much, but if you were fighting like 10 people, they could theoretically strip you of buffs every second for 10 seconds, or nuke all of your buffs at once and then just kill you while you are trying to rebuff (the cooldown is on the user, not on the target)

geonsocal · August 2022

thank you @Necrotech_Master ...

dang this stuff gets twisted and complex...i think i understand what you're saying...

i just see the vast majority of these seemingly potential OP set ups that really are best suited for very niche playstyles...

stuff like calurrion's (not anymore i guess), dark convergence, oakensoul, plaguebreak generally affect us all...that other stuff - heck, good chance i'll never even know if someone was using it against me...

maybe it's just been a long time since i've put together a "de-buff build"...i just don't have much faith in those type of builds anymore...

i think most builds are just too powerful to do much with that playstyle, then again, if i was grouped more - i probably would consider it...

Necrotech_Master · August 2022

geonsocal wrote: »

thank you @Necrotech_Master ...

dang this stuff gets twisted and complex...i think i understand what you're saying...

i just see the vast majority of these seemingly potential OP set ups that really are best suited for very niche playstyles...

stuff like calurrion's (not anymore i guess), dark convergence, oakensoul, plaguebreak generally affect us all...that other stuff - heck, good chance i'll never even know if someone was using it against me...

maybe it's just been a long time since i've put together a "de-buff build"...i just don't have much faith in those type of builds anymore...

i think most builds are just too powerful to do much with that playstyle, then again, if i was grouped more - i probably would consider it...

in a way to put it: maras is basically the ultimate 1vX gear (from some peoples tests on the PTS i saw, this set could effectively add around 800-1000 heal per second PER PERSON attacking you)

nocturnal would be more of a problem if everyone was using it (which i bet at least 75% or more of pvpers are going to be running this, maybe approaching 90% in the "sweaty" campaigns like grey host)

there are counters to nocturnal, if you really didnt want to run it, you could run sets with more passive and or/unique buffs, since nocturnal only removes major/minor buffs

so like the bloodspawn proc couldnt be removed by mara because it is not a named major/minor buff
mighty chudan couldnt be removed at all because its always active (nocturnal only removes major/minor buffs on a timer)

the only other option to avoid all of this mess would be to go to the no-proc campaign lol