Can we discuss the list of Werewolf Nerfs this patch?

QuintusVaLari · August 2022

So i'm a Werewolf main in PvP and as of this patch I decided to compile a list of the Werewolf nerfs coming this patch that many may not realize. These changes are hitting Werewolves especially hard in PvP

14% less heavy attack damage. Lining up heavies is one of our only forms of burst since we have no real burst or direct execute. (8.1.3)
Almost every heavy attack in the game getting a buff to resources returned on the attack - except Werewolf (8.1.0)
Healing reduced on claws of life from 100% to 66% of damage done (8.1.0)
The amount of damage claws of life does being reduced by 17% per tick which also reduces our healing (8.1.0)
Howl of Despair's Empower buff is now worthless as it does not function in PvP for support wolves in a pack. (8.1.3)
Oakensoul's changes reduces our weapon damage by 430. Since most every Werewolf that PvPs already gets minor courage build in from pack leader, this can be considered a disproportionate nerf to WW I feel, especially since Oakensoul is being used so much in small scale pvp, and WW's kit amplifies Weapon Damage quite a bit. (8.1.0)

The tradeoff? We apply minor defile for a longer duration on our claws of anguish.

This just... feels bad.
Am I missing something?

MaraxusTheOrc · August 2022

Nicely compiled list. I very much enjoy the play of werewolf right now, and while they *can* be built to be extraordinarily resilient, I’m not sure their survivability is any different than other tanky-ish builds in PvP.

ZOS, kindly review these changes and consider retuning.

Wuuffyy · August 2022

Ooph, this was more than even I considered. I would be mostly okay if they would maybe just make the passive 100% for now (heavy attack resources). Until they could revisit and make a more perm change.

Additionally, the claws of life was a significantly underperforming morph for pvp and the healing amounts are virtually irrelevant in pve (as long as you hit multiple targets). This should have never been nerfed, outlier or not.

The only reason it’s even used at all is because in pve, it’s the only morph that does anything to ads at all.

Wuuffyy · August 2022

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

So i'm a Werewolf main in PvP and as of this patch I decided to compile a list of the Werewolf nerfs coming this patch that many may not realize. These changes are hitting Werewolves especially hard in PvP
14% less heavy attack damage. Lining up heavies is one of our only forms of burst since we have no real burst or direct execute. (8.1.3)

Almost every heavy attack in the game getting a buff to resources returned on the attack - except Werewolf (8.1.0)

Healing reduced on claws of life from 100% to 66% of damage done (8.1.0)

The amount of damage claws of life does being reduced by 17% per tick which also reduces our healing (8.1.0)

Howl of Despair's Empower buff is now worthless as it does not function in PvP for support wolves in a pack. (8.1.3)

Oakensoul's changes reduces our weapon damage by 430. Since most every Werewolf that PvPs already gets minor courage build in from pack leader, this can be considered a disproportionate nerf to WW I feel, especially since Oakensoul is being used so much in small scale pvp, and WW's kit amplifies Weapon Damage quite a bit. (8.1.0)

The tradeoff? We apply minor defile for a longer duration on our claws of anguish.

This just... feels bad.
Am I missing something?

You forgot to add the now, general reduction of our lights by 26% too. It’s better than it was and I’m somewhat more accepting of that, however it’s still a blanket nerf here too.

Also, berserker bleed not applying bleed bug. Haha. Reported this on the first page, no acknowledgment, easy fix.

Remathilis · August 2022

::Laughs in vampire::

Seems a fair trade: ww is exclusively PvE now and vampire is exclusively PvP.

Wuuffyy · August 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

::Laughs in vampire::

Seems a fair trade: ww is exclusively PvE now and vampire is exclusively PvP.

Except it’s not even pve. It terribly underperforms in everything but no cp bgs (b/c people don’t build enough sustain and die easily). At least vamp has a general use case in many places…

ColoniaCroisant · August 2022

Is there no Werewolf class rep? We need buffs in PVE too, BADLY

Wuuffyy · August 2022

ColoniaCroisant wrote: »

Is there no Werewolf class rep? We need buffs in PVE too, BADLY

They shut the class rep program down. There were I assume, however, that program didn’t do a whole lot of good as most rep feedback was disregarded unfortunately.

acastanza_ESO · August 2022

Werewolf wasn't even that strong in PVP, these changes will absolutely kill it.

We've gone from a PTS where WW would've been the gods of PVP (original PTS oakensoul) to a PTS where it literally isn't worth accepting the curse.

This absolutely needs to be addressed.

Wuuffyy · August 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Werewolf wasn't even that strong in PVP, these changes will absolutely kill it.

We've gone from a PTS where WW would've been the gods of PVP (original PTS oakensoul) to a PTS where it literally isn't worth accepting the curse.

This absolutely needs to be addressed.

It definitely feels that way!

Jaraal · August 2022

Has anyone tested to see if Nocturnal’s Ploy strips our buffs? They are temporary buffs with a timer (transformation length only.) If so, we would be dead in the water with no way to reapply, other than a 45 second potion that will be stripped every 15 seconds anyway.

coop500 · August 2022

Please don't let this thread die guys. This is so sad, PVE werewolves are already under-preforming on LIVE, much less in any PTS this cycle.

QuintusVaLari · August 2022

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

You forgot to add the now, general reduction of our lights by 26% too. It’s better than it was and I’m somewhat more accepting of that, however it’s still a blanket nerf here too.

Also, berserker bleed not applying bleed bug. Haha. Reported this on the first page, no acknowledgment, easy fix.

I tried to focus on nerfs that were specific to, or more extreme for Werewolves. The light attack nerfs are universal so i didn't include them.

Berserker form is not applying bleed atm? O.o;

Yarcanine · August 2022

In the current patch Werewolf is actually playable. Mainly because oakensoul is carrying our damage and allowing us to invest into our sustain/survivability issues while still doing decent damage.

Next patch is looking grim. In addition to the nerfs you mentioned, light attacks being reduced hits ww especially hard because they make up more of our damage than other classes.

Unless ww gets some stand alone buffs or they give oakensoul some utility buffs like expedition it looks like WW is going to bottom of the barrel meme spec again.

Wuuffyy · August 2022

Yarcanine wrote: »

In the current patch Werewolf is actually playable. Mainly because oakensoul is carrying our damage and allowing us to invest into our sustain/survivability issues while still doing decent damage.

Next patch it looking grim. In addition to the nerfs you mentioned, light attacks being reduced hits ww especially hard because they make up more of our damage than other classes.

Unless ww gets some stand alone buffs or they give oakensoul some utility buffs like expedition it looks like WW is going to bottom of the barrel meme spec again.

Exactly. It is really quite a bad spec without oakensoul.

Yarcanine · August 2022

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

You forgot to add the now, general reduction of our lights by 26% too. It’s better than it was and I’m somewhat more accepting of that, however it’s still a blanket nerf here too.

Also, berserker bleed not applying bleed bug. Haha. Reported this on the first page, no acknowledgment, easy fix.

I tried to focus on nerfs that were specific to, or more extreme for Werewolves. The light attack nerfs are universal so i didn't include them.

Berserker form is not applying bleed atm? O.o;

Pretty sure he means that berserker bleed doesn't proc hemorrhaging like all other bleeds.

Wuuffyy · August 2022

Yarcanine wrote: »

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

You forgot to add the now, general reduction of our lights by 26% too. It’s better than it was and I’m somewhat more accepting of that, however it’s still a blanket nerf here too.

Also, berserker bleed not applying bleed bug. Haha. Reported this on the first page, no acknowledgment, easy fix.

I tried to focus on nerfs that were specific to, or more extreme for Werewolves. The light attack nerfs are universal so i didn't include them.

Berserker form is not applying bleed atm? O.o;

Pretty sure he means that berserker bleed doesn't proc hemorrhaging like all other bleeds.

Yes that is correct. Haha. Especially problematic when all damage types proc something now.

QuintusVaLari · August 2022

Well we are late enough in the patch cycle these things probably won't change, right?

FeedbackOnly · August 2022

This is sad 😢

FeedbackOnly · August 2022

Is it any better now?

Kory · August 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

::Laughs in vampire::

Seems a fair trade: ww is exclusively PvE now and vampire is exclusively PvP.

We already know so many people in PvP are vampires, mainly because of the strong passives alone that stack with other parts of gameplay and their build...unlike werewolf to a major extent. They already know many of us are effectively playing as vampires, as the meta/broken builds on almost any class is most likely a vampire.

Jaraal · August 2022

Last weekend to play your dawgs before they become toothless pups!

The Hunt Father must be quite disappointed.

huskandhunger · August 2022

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

So i'm a Werewolf main in PvP and as of this patch I decided to compile a list of the Werewolf nerfs coming this patch that many may not realize. These changes are hitting Werewolves especially hard in PvP
14% less heavy attack damage. Lining up heavies is one of our only forms of burst since we have no real burst or direct execute. (8.1.3)

Almost every heavy attack in the game getting a buff to resources returned on the attack - except Werewolf (8.1.0)

Healing reduced on claws of life from 100% to 66% of damage done (8.1.0)

The amount of damage claws of life does being reduced by 17% per tick which also reduces our healing (8.1.0)

Howl of Despair's Empower buff is now worthless as it does not function in PvP for support wolves in a pack. (8.1.3)

Oakensoul's changes reduces our weapon damage by 430. Since most every Werewolf that PvPs already gets minor courage build in from pack leader, this can be considered a disproportionate nerf to WW I feel, especially since Oakensoul is being used so much in small scale pvp, and WW's kit amplifies Weapon Damage quite a bit. (8.1.0)

The tradeoff? We apply minor defile for a longer duration on our claws of anguish.

This just... feels bad.
Am I missing something?

You forgot to add the now, general reduction of our lights by 26% too. It’s better than it was and I’m somewhat more accepting of that, however it’s still a blanket nerf here too.

Also, berserker bleed not applying bleed bug. Haha. Reported this on the first page, no acknowledgment, easy fix.

this is actually happening unfortunately I tested now on live and the Berserker morph does not apply bleeds on extended light attacks or so called (medium attacks)

Berserker just became SOOO unattractive now for me

Wuuffyy · August 2022

huskandhunger wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

So i'm a Werewolf main in PvP and as of this patch I decided to compile a list of the Werewolf nerfs coming this patch that many may not realize. These changes are hitting Werewolves especially hard in PvP
14% less heavy attack damage. Lining up heavies is one of our only forms of burst since we have no real burst or direct execute. (8.1.3)

Almost every heavy attack in the game getting a buff to resources returned on the attack - except Werewolf (8.1.0)

Healing reduced on claws of life from 100% to 66% of damage done (8.1.0)

The amount of damage claws of life does being reduced by 17% per tick which also reduces our healing (8.1.0)

Howl of Despair's Empower buff is now worthless as it does not function in PvP for support wolves in a pack. (8.1.3)

Oakensoul's changes reduces our weapon damage by 430. Since most every Werewolf that PvPs already gets minor courage build in from pack leader, this can be considered a disproportionate nerf to WW I feel, especially since Oakensoul is being used so much in small scale pvp, and WW's kit amplifies Weapon Damage quite a bit. (8.1.0)

The tradeoff? We apply minor defile for a longer duration on our claws of anguish.

This just... feels bad.
Am I missing something?

You forgot to add the now, general reduction of our lights by 26% too. It’s better than it was and I’m somewhat more accepting of that, however it’s still a blanket nerf here too.

Also, berserker bleed not applying bleed bug. Haha. Reported this on the first page, no acknowledgment, easy fix.

this is actually happening unfortunately I tested now on live and the Berserker morph does not apply bleeds on extended light attacks or so called (medium attacks)

Berserker just became SOOO unattractive now for me

@ZOS_Kevin - I saw somewhere where you all report bugs to devs.