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Nocturnal's Ploy Needs a Complete Re-work Not a Cooldown Increase
neferpitou73
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I'm not sure what isn't getting across here. The vast majority of PvPers do not want a set added to the game that takes away their buffs. There is no cooldown, no mechanic that makes this set ok. Please either scrap it or re-work it entirely.
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Only a DK can reapply Major Fortitude and Endurance via a skill, no class can reapply Major Intellect outside of a potion with a long cooldown.
This set is a disaster. It removes buffs that cannot be sourced again and in some cases cost gold and materials to buy or craft. And it does all that for FREE with skills that currently exist.
There is no acceptable cooldown, it's just a bad idea that breaks the buff/debuff system! Applying a debuff is not the same thing as removing a buff, the game has no means to get those buffs back quickly in some cases and is straight up theft from the players gold/materials.10 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simultaneously weak and unreliable for an individual user, yet incredibly unfun to fight against, especially if multiple people tag you with this, or when it randomly eats your potion's Major Intellect instead of an easily reapplied Major Expedition. Please rework into something else entirely, maybe something that buffs individual pressure damage (but not burst or group).PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance6 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll add that this is the same patch we're supposedly trying to improve accessibility by making it easier to keep up dots and buffs. While at the same time adding a set that removes other people's buffs.3 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yea, this set is a bad concept. Should really be reworked into something different, like mimicking a buff or several buffs of target, instead of taking them away. Any set designed that doesn't look at the game from: how will trolls use this, isn't designed well. Game Devs often overlook the troll aspect, we've seen it across various games, not just ESO. And even without trolling, the set isn't fair IMO as is.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC5 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seriously ZOS. If you want us to feel like our feedback is valued, take a look at the feedback of Nocturnals Ploy. The cooldown increase isn't enough, the set needs to be reworked. I'm not sure how that isn't getting across.2 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can a dev at least tell us why stealing Columbine, etc, from me is a fun mechanic that should absolutely happen?11 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well I guess this means some people will prefer to continue using Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak lol because Nocturnal's Ploy won't annoy people every two seconds.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »Well I guess this means some people will prefer to continue using Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak lol because Nocturnal's Ploy won't annoy people every two seconds.
Oh, I am 100% running this next patch, even after this adjustment.
It is still a debuff set that I can apply for free with a skill that already debuffs my target. Plus, even with the cooldown, I have the chance to remove a Major/Minor buff every 15 seconds. Which, on the worse end of the spectrum, I force my opponent to recast their buff and waste resources. Assuming they even realize which buffs are missing... Or, on the better end of the spectrum, I remove a buff that my opponent has to wait 40 seconds to reapply, which means, in 15 seconds, I can remove another buff while they still don't have the potion buff.3 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »Can a dev at least tell us why stealing Columbine, etc, from me is a fun mechanic that should absolutely happen?
Ooh interesting take. Never thought of that.Oh, I am 100% running this next patch, even after this adjustment.
It is still a debuff set that I can apply for free with a skill that already debuffs my target. Plus, even with the cooldown, I have the chance to remove a Major/Minor buff every 15 seconds. Which, on the worse end of the spectrum, I force my opponent to recast their buff and waste resources. Assuming they even realize which buffs are missing... Or, on the better end of the spectrum, I remove a buff that my opponent has to wait 40 seconds to reapply, which means, in 15 seconds, I can remove another buff while they still don't have the potion buff.
Oh I am too. I'm gonna farm for as many pieces of the set as I can. I feel this is now a BG set. I just have to figure out what other set to pair it with.0 -
doesurmindglow✭✭✭✭✭This is basically an Xv1 set, which seems utterly unnecessary.
The 15 second cooldown is insufficient. This one really needs to go back to the drawing board. I dunno, maybe something like:Nocturnal's Ploy
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, you apply the corresponding Minor Debuff. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds per target.
Wouldn't be blatantly gamebreaking but still fairly strong.Guildmaster : The Wild Hunt (formerly Aka Baka) : AD PC/NA2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »Can a dev at least tell us why stealing Columbine, etc, from me is a fun mechanic that should absolutely happen?
Ooh interesting take. Never thought of that.Oh, I am 100% running this next patch, even after this adjustment.
It is still a debuff set that I can apply for free with a skill that already debuffs my target. Plus, even with the cooldown, I have the chance to remove a Major/Minor buff every 15 seconds. Which, on the worse end of the spectrum, I force my opponent to recast their buff and waste resources. Assuming they even realize which buffs are missing... Or, on the better end of the spectrum, I remove a buff that my opponent has to wait 40 seconds to reapply, which means, in 15 seconds, I can remove another buff while they still don't have the potion buff.
Oh I am too. I'm gonna farm for as many pieces of the set as I can. I feel this is now a BG set. I just have to figure out what other set to pair it with.
Oakensoul, and if it goes unchanged, Mara's Balm, will likely be strong options to pair with it.1 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakensoul, and if it goes unchanged, Mara's Balm, will likely be strong options to pair with it.
Yeah I'll probably stick with Oakensoul. Lots of buffs that can't be removed for any reason.
Mara's Balm might be great for BGs but I'm wondering if in Cyrodiil it will wind up a liability because of Plaguebreak? Have to wait and see on that.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭doesurmindglow wrote: »This is basically an Xv1 set, which seems utterly unnecessary.
The 15 second cooldown is insufficient. This one really needs to go back to the drawing board. I dunno, maybe something like:Nocturnal's Ploy
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, you apply the corresponding Minor Debuff. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds per target.
Wouldn't be blatantly gamebreaking but still fairly strong.
I've been a proponent of the set reducing the effectiveness of your opponents Major/Minor buffs per Major/Minor you put on them. Up to like 15% reduction.
So, every 5 Major debuffs you put on them, it reduces by 2% per, up to 10% reduction. And every 5 Minor debuffs you put on them reduces by 1% per, up to 5%. Total of 15% reduction.
To all Major/Minors buffs they have, static or otherwise (to counter Oaken and permanent set buffs too).
What this would do is provide and effectiveness cap, up to 15%. But in order to hit that cap, you would have to apply 10 unique major and minor debuffs to the target, which would be effectively very unlikely. Even then, say you do apply that many, and they don't purge them, you knock their buffs down by 15%. So Major protection becomes 8.5% mitigation instead of 10, Major Resolve loses like 1K resistances. Etc. At max.
It provides the effect of reducing the effectiveness of a players Major/Minor buffs without removing them, while also still giving them the ability to counter by purge, or letting the effect run out.1 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Was just thinking with a 15 second cooldown on nocturnal ploy, that's still tempting to NB gank, open with lethal arrow into reapers mark and start at a HYUUUGE advantage. Backbar it, then front bar whatever to finish. So you just chill in stealth or shadow image off for the rest of the 10 seconds.0 -
Wyrd88✭✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »I'm not sure what isn't getting across here. The vast majority of PvPers do not want a set added to the game that takes away their buffs. There is no cooldown, no mechanic that makes this set ok. Please either scrap it or re-work it entirely.
The vast majority of PVPers don't read/post on forums but zerging you down with a 10v1 ratio. And they'll be happy to have this set.
So I can think that this set is the accessibility option for this type of "playstyle".Edited by Wyrd88 on 1 August 2022 19:273 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'll likely sit out of pvp once this is released. For players in general you always had power over your own buffs at a min. This set rocks that dynamic in a really heavy way. It's going to be abused to a ridiculous degree. A zerg ball nightmare. No thanks. Im gonna throw out a wild guess that more casual pvp folks will opt out until it's nerfed.Edited by boi_anachronism_ on 1 August 2022 20:551 -
AdamLAD✭✭✭✭✭It needs a cooldown of like 1 minute and can't be procced multiple timez from multiple people and does not effect potions. Its still absolutely broken. Why on earth are the devs letting this set be what it is ? Do they care about PvP. I could sit down in front of the entire combat team and educate them on exactly how to balance this game. Not because I'm more academically superior, because im not, but because I hold something alot more valuable. Common sense.2
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StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »I'm not sure what isn't getting across here. The vast majority of PvPers do not want a set added to the game that takes away their buffs. There is no cooldown, no mechanic that makes this set ok. Please either scrap it or re-work it entirely.
Agreed.0 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭
✭@neferpitou73
I think that it is telling when this set stands to buff your playstyle more than any other and yet you take the object approach and call it like it is. Both to your concern for the health of PvP as well as to the poor design of this set and others like it.
Poor design with a complete lack of forethought is the most complimentary description I think I can give it.0 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Set needs a rework, turn it into a debuff set. That's fine. There's no reason a set should completely work outside the buff/debuff system. Removing buffs entirely breaks pvp. And the fact that it can stack debuffs as well makes it too much.
If they added a stipulation "the targeted player cannot be debuffed by the caster of nocturnal". That's the only situation where I'd say it's fair to allow them to steal my buffs.
But the way it currently allows you to be debuffed and lose your buffs causing your stats to double dip. Which is unbelievably unfair and not even remotely fun to play against.Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade1 -
MetallicMonk✭✭✭✭✭It doesn't belong in the game, and a small 15 second cd is surely not enough to keep this idiotic set in check.2
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Tevalicious✭✭I saw someone else make this point so its not my original thought but it needs to be repeated. This set is going to kill the last bit of true 1-2vXing that there is left. That kind of play style requires 2 classes that can buff themselves and each other in a synergistic way. If people chasing them can strip even 25% of their buffs they are doomed. The set favors outnumbering people which is very inconsistent with their goal of reducing zerging and faction stacking.3
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JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭I do not want to see another set.
I do not know what majority do not want - may be majority who use to a lot of buffs. I do not use, so i do not care.
I use debuffs - so i do not want to see set that removes it.
Do not only think about yourself - think about us too, majority.1 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »Pvp: oakensoul is a problem.
Zos: hold ma beer
Just replacement some major buffs with pve same buffs can be better idea. So ... bb okensol. It just get to much love from developers, now it us nerfed by it to the ground ))
Love looks like heavy thing, that nerfs everything to the ground
Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on 2 August 2022 01:360 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »I'll likely sit out of pvp once this is released. For players in general you always had power over your own buffs at a min. This set rocks that dynamic in a really heavy way. It's going to be abused to a ridiculous degree. A zerg ball nightmare. No thanks. Im gonna throw out a wild guess that more casual pvp folks will opt out until it's nerfed.
But they’ve already given you the workaround. Just buy High Isle, and dig up Oakensoul. Those buffs can’t be stripped.
Create a problem that people will have to pay for the solution = profit.0 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »I'll likely sit out of pvp once this is released. For players in general you always had power over your own buffs at a min. This set rocks that dynamic in a really heavy way. It's going to be abused to a ridiculous degree. A zerg ball nightmare. No thanks. Im gonna throw out a wild guess that more casual pvp folks will opt out until it's nerfed.
But they’ve already given you the workaround. Just buy High Isle, and dig up Oakensoul. Those buffs can’t be stripped.
Create a problem that people will have to pay for the solution = profit.
They cam and they did get stripped. Downt to 5%
This so called set, shouldnt go on live server.
If thje change remove to reduce current buffs with 2% on apply downt to max 6% for major and 3 to minnor buffs sure, also put a personal cd on player / 15% debuf cd) so effect cant be reaplied in less than 15 sec / if multiple ppl run this set.
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure why zenimax feels the need to force this set upon an audience that unanimously has agreed they do not want it.
You are introducing it in a patch where you specifically stated that you want to improve accessibility and remove the need to monitor your buffs as much - this set does the exact opposite of that and is not in line with your stated vision. Introducing this set further reinforces to us that you do not, in fact, know the direction you want to take the game in.
Even with a 15 second cooldown, this still fundamentally breaks the game. This has no place in PVP. Please just scrap the set, or have it do something else entirely.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin
Edited by React on 2 August 2022 03:53@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
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