Zenimax, please, explain how exactly ToT rankings work?

DinoZavr · July 2022

Dear Zenimax Developers,

Please, explain how Tales of Tribute ranking system is implemented?
I had already opened a support ticket [220717-004750] about gaining zero score and rank decrease after a win in a ranked game (which had happened multiple times), and your support technician Cristian answered I am to post a bug report (which I already had done, they were inattentive, as the reference to the relevant bug report [220717-004718] was already referenced in my support request).

Each every day the wonders with rankings persist.
Today I got 3 wins 2 losses. And this brought me down in ranks.
May I, please, wonder about this -1000 score for a single loss?

(these 5 games results are on the screenshot, ratings changes reported by the TributeI mproved Leaderboard addon)

I cannot imagine Magnus Carlsen’s ELO drops from 2864 downto 1500 after his single loss.
But this is exactly what happens with Tales of Tribute rankings.

Could I, please, have explanations how the ranking system built-in ToT rankings works.
This is a card game with unambiguous rules, so the ranking should be crystal clear too.
It would also help if during the game I could see not only my opponent UserID, but theirs rank too (so I could calculate possible outcome myself), if you, be so kind to condescend explaining you customers how the ranking system works?

I mean the explanation like: we use ELO with initial 1500, k-factor 40, and max rating change = +/- 250, and the means i can verify calculations manually (thus, i d kindly ask to display my opponent's rank on the ToT board).

What happens with rankings now is very baffling, to put it mildly.
Please, explain!
Thanks in advance.

kevkj · July 2022

If we are only being matched with other Rubedite players it's even more baffling. Everyone in Rubedite has a chance to beat any other Rubedite player, RNG permitting. The system should not consider it a massive upset and dock you a lot of points. If we're getting matched with Quicksilver players and losing then I suppose I have no complaints.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn · July 2022

I just played a ranked competitive match (rubedite), which I lost, and I dropped 200 places.

How does this work?

DinoZavr · July 2022

@kevkj, i guess matchmaking goes out of tier, just because there are not that many players online, who are queued for ToT, and to minimize waiting time, queuing system might offer any opponent.

This is why i would like to see my opponent rating together with UserID.
Still i have complaint, as -1000 is too rough for the game which is so much RNG dependent.
There are situations when your opponent buys some good card early (like Armory or Siege Weapon Volley, or Midnight Raid or such) and Tavern becomes stale - contains 8s, 9s and often some neutral cards to kick agents. I thin my desk and buy crap jut to give my opponent the opportunity to buy more good cards which arrive after i spent all my coins for something useless. After several moves i realize the game is lost. And it actually is, because a good opponents' card bought early gives them a good advantage in prestige. And what? -1000? Too abrupt in my humble opinion.
There is a limitation of how much ELO in chess can change after a single game and it has a small value due to no RNG involved. I guess Zenumax use -1000 for losing to unranked player and +0 for winning and this is a mistake in my humble understanding, as these values make very little sense, just because Tales of Tribute is seriously RNG dependent and regardless of theirs skill a good player can always lose to a newbie solely because of the bad luck.

If we have rating systems clearly explained by game-makers (this is a link to ELO calculator https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/elo demonstrating how it can be done) it would be possible to create and addon calculating ratings, based of games result and even displaying players' rating history as a graph on a dashboard.

kevkj · July 2022

I would be surprised if matchmaking goes beyond one tier difference, I do think most of my games have been against other Rubedite players. A friend got matched with PinkApple when they were 1st on the leaderboards while they were still in Voidsteel, though this was early in the season when Rubedite must have been barely populated. I've also watched some streamers in lower ranks and they definitely get games faster (more players in lower ranks makes sense) and their opponents do seem to be at a similar level (they are not getting destroyed repeatedly by rubedite players).

Agreed, it would be nice to see your opponents tier (and rank if they are in Rubedite). A lot of other games include this into their incentives as well, giving players shiny logos or whatnot. That would be nice.

Agreed again, with regards to the point gain/loss and you can find similar sentiment all over this sub-forum since day 1. They need a new system with a narrower range of possible point gain/loss because the current system is very demoralizing. So far I don't think ZOS has even acknowledged this as an issue, so perhaps they are satisfied with how it works currently.

DinoZavr · July 2022

Thank you, @kevkj

kevkj wrote: »

They need a new system with a narrower range of possible point gain/loss because the current system is very demoralizing. So far I don't think ZOS has even acknowledged this as an issue, so perhaps they are satisfied with how it works currently.

yep. This scares me the most.

SilverBride · July 2022

What I'd like to know is does our ToT level factor in as well as our ranking for who we are matched with?

I was level 6 and the Ebony rank, which I've never advanced beyond. But when I reached level 7 my opponents became more difficult and I was losing almost every game, when I had been winning more than half of them before I gained a level.

We really need a clear explanation on how this works.

DinoZavr · July 2022

@kevkj
Today during Bethesda_DE stream i have asked @ZOS_KaiSchober about ToT fine tuning and he answered they plan revising ranking system, but said Orgnum patron spam issue is not on the table yet.
Danke schön, Kai!
At least this news bring some hope.

kevkj · July 2022

@DinoZavr That's at least some good news! Hopefully they can even fit it into U35.

@SilverBride I'm almost 100% sure your level does not factor in at all for ranked games. The average player is just getting better at the game. This is why deranking would be beneficial to implement as I mentioned in your thread. If the average skill level in Ebony has surpassed you, you should be able to derank to Orichalcum to get more evenly matched opponents. The current system traps you in a higher tier and you just have to endure it until the season ends.

redspecter23 · July 2022

DinoZavr wrote: »

@kevkj
Today during Bethesda_DE stream i have asked @ZOS_KaiSchober about ToT fine tuning and he answered they plan revising ranking system, but said Orgnum patron spam issue is not on the table yet.
Danke schön, Kai!
At least this news bring some hope.

They really have no current plans to do anything about Orgnum? Yikes.

DinoZavr · July 2022

redspecter23 wrote: »

They really have no current plans to do anything about Orgnum? Yikes.

Interestingly enough, Orgnum patron at PTS does not add a Maormer Boarding Party card on favored, though patch notes do not mention that.

Jofish · July 2022

why is there no ZOS webpage not only explaining the rules but also explaining the ranking system? If there is one I can not find it. It's all secondary sources, iffy at best.

DinoZavr · July 2022

Also just a little observation: playing during servers' peak hours decrease "inter-tier" matchmaking chances,
as, hopefully, system can find opponent from one and the same tier, when many players are queued for ToT.

DinoZavr · July 2022

@kevkj https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1536480248?t=19m15s answer took less than 2 minutes. English.