Ascendent Order should've been a Mehrunes Dagon cult

Vrienda · June 2022

I know y'all said this wasn't gonna be a cult story but these guys just don't have a good political plan. It'd make more sense if they were doing what they're doing as an act of worship to the Daedric Prince of revolution and change. Much more than the Waking Flame. High Isle just isn't a political story in the way Orsinium was. The order is just a glorified cult targeting political people and it's honestly quite a shame. Because as a result they're not compelling.

KingArthasMenethil · June 2022

Honestly no it shouldn't be. TES suffers too much from "lol more Daedra" adding more won't help but make it worse.
Adding Daedra doesn't make it compelling it makes it generic given how overused Daedra are by ESO and TES in general

Ratzkifal · June 2022

Why would they have to be a Mehrunes Dagon cult? Just because they are trying to bring about a revolution doesn't mean they have to worship daedra. Boethia would fit that bill too btw.
No, just because your goals align with that of a Daedric Prince should not make you a worshipper. That Prince might like what you are doing and might support you from the shadows but that doesn't mean the reverse has to be true.

A good villain will think of their cause to be right and just. In their mind they are the good guys and worshipping Daedra doesn't exactly fit with everyone's view of what good is, even when their other views are still very much corrupted.

Vrienda · June 2022

I just think Mehrunes was done dirty in Blackwood and so far the Ascendent Order have shown themselves to be nothing but iredeemably evil morons without much of a choherent long term plan other than disrupting the norm.

With how they're written, they fit a Daedric cult better than what ZOS is aiming for right now. My critique is of the writing of them, not a demand that everything be related to the Daedra. You could handwave their lack of a clear and coherent goal by putting a Daedric Prince behind them. As it is we're half way through the year and they just don't have anything going for them but sounding cool in helmets.

chessalavakia_ESO · June 2022

I think that the political story of High Isle suffers from the fact ESO just doesn't have the budget to tell a political story at the scale at which events are occurring.

If you had the budget for it High Isle could have let the player choose to join the Order, choose to push for peace, or choose to push for the war to continue.

You could have met people from your faction that would have pushed each point of view.

Then, after your made your choice, you could deal with the repercussions.

Obviously, ZOS doesn't have the resources to spin the story off into all of those different directions.

KingArthasMenethil · June 2022

Honestly they didn't do Dagon dirty. He's always been big on destruction. The Waking Flames leader just believes that Magnus will remake the world after Dagon destroys it. Destruction is a big thing for Dagon to the very point I wonder that if revolution and change is something mortals falsely attribute to him as it's really just an aftermath of the destruction he causes. Dagons realm is literally a destructive hellscape that goes back to TES4 and the Daedric realms are meant to reflect the Princes if I recall.

Just because a group wants change doesn't mean it should be a Daedric Cult. Making things a Daedric Cult because it "fits" doesn't help the setting as you'll end up the with issues Nibenese Cults have where anything that Isn't Daedric is barely a cult and only exists for one thing (rip Ancestor Moth).
Also this year is toning down on the Daedric stuff because they drown everything out especially after we just had a year with Dagon as the focus.

We also do not have the full story nor do we know the actual goal and intentions of the Ascendant Lord which is why one should wait for Q4 before one can critique their writing. Like do they want to get rid of the current rulers to put themselves on the Throne?

If Blackwood did anything dirty it was the Imperials who are always done dirty because literally everything of theirs is never represented properly.

KingArthasMenethil · June 2022

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I think that the political story of High Isle suffers from the fact ESO just doesn't have the budget to tell a political story at the scale at which events are occurring.

If you had the budget for it High Isle could have let the player choose to join the Order, choose to push for peace, or choose to push for the war to continue.

You could have met people from your faction that would have pushed each point of view.

Then, after your made your choice, you could deal with the repercussions.

Obviously, ZOS doesn't have the resources to spin the story off into all of those different directions.

Honestly it's not really about budget or resources it's ZoS having everything at once and being able to play in any order that messes with it as you cannot have it do anything if for example you do the Legacy of the Bretons first and then base game after since the timeline was destroyed.
From memory they've toned down player choice after base game which is probably relating to stuff like who gets sacrificed to the Amulet of Kings and other choices that might mess with things (how long till Varen returns to really mess with choices?)

Vaoh · June 2022

Orsinium was my favorite story in this game.

I haven’t played High Isle yet but I was really excited when ZOS announced this year would be a story of political intrigue. Now I’m getting worried lol.

moleculardrugs · June 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

I know y'all said this wasn't gonna be a cult story but these guys just don't have a good political plan. It'd make more sense if they were doing what they're doing as an act of worship to the Daedric Prince of revolution and change. Much more than the Waking Flame. High Isle just isn't a political story in the way Orsinium was. The order is just a glorified cult targeting political people and it's honestly quite a shame. Because as a result they're not compelling.

The Ascendent Magus should have been a Daedra in disguise. Since fighting the Waking Flame, I am not phased by these Breton political terrorists

moleculardrugs · June 2022

KingArthasMenethil wrote: »

Honestly they didn't do Dagon dirty. He's always been big on destruction. The Waking Flames leader just believes that Magnus will remake the world after Dagon destroys it. Destruction is a big thing for Dagon to the very point I wonder that if revolution and change is something mortals falsely attribute to him as it's really just an aftermath of the destruction he causes. Dagons realm is literally a destructive hellscape that goes back to TES4 and the Daedric realms are meant to reflect the Princes if I recall.

Just because a group wants change doesn't mean it should be a Daedric Cult. Making things a Daedric Cult because it "fits" doesn't help the setting as you'll end up the with issues Nibenese Cults have where anything that Isn't Daedric is barely a cult and only exists for one thing (rip Ancestor Moth).
Also this year is toning down on the Daedric stuff because they drown everything out especially after we just had a year with Dagon as the focus.

We also do not have the full story nor do we know the actual goal and intentions of the Ascendant Lord which is why one should wait for Q4 before one can critique their writing. Like do they want to get rid of the current rulers to put themselves on the Throne?

If Blackwood did anything dirty it was the Imperials who are always done dirty because literally everything of theirs is never represented properly.

I agree. I wish we heard more about Varen’s deeds and how Emperor Ludivoc was trying to destroy things quicker

kaushad · June 2022

moleculardrugs wrote: »

The Ascendent Magus should have been a Daedra in disguise. Since fighting the Waking Flame, I am not phased by these Breton political terrorists

We don't need another Samuel Gourone instead of a Breton wizard.